Siglent SSA3000X and SSA3000X-Plus Spectrum Analyzers

[Elasia]

I came across something useful for myself – at least a ‘hands free’ way of investigating circuit behaviour

My question is if something similar can be implemented (if not already) that can be used for SSA’s
– especially when matched impedances are required
– not to mention much higher frequencies than typical with MSO’s

It’s possible to fabricate a suitable cable with an appropriate termination at the SSA end

Can we do same at the probe end?

I guess it’s a matter of simply trying to see what the frequency response will be – using the SSA itself ??

We can create two cables terminated at the TG and SSA input using suitable N terminations
– then simply ‘tune’ the 'probe end' and if not perfectly flat response for the entire 3.2G span
– normalize it before use

This should work I guess for TG sweeps … but if just ‘probing’ with SSA input alone will we have any problems??

Has anyone attempted something similar?

Any feedback welcome

I took the lazy path and just picked up one of these for poking things with needles, dead flat for the most part

https://www.tequipment.net/AuburnP-20B/

I do also have that same set with 4 scope probes and 8 digital probes

very handy

sad they only go up to 100MHz ;(

[noreply]

I do also have that same set with 4 scope probes and 8 digital probes

very handy

sad they only go up to 100MHz ;(

P20B - NICE

Any chance of getting the Sensepeek probe (100Mhz) and hooking it up to the SSA - to see how long it stays 'flat' for ??

- just curious if its labeled at 100Mhz but has some more milage 

[TrAndy]

I was in doubt if I should post it here or in the post for the SVA but sinds the calibration is still a hot topic for the upgraded SSA I decided for this forum. If I was wrong then please move or delete this post.
I came along this post:
https://www.instructables.com/id/23GHz-SMA-Calibration-Kit/
I build it on a N-connector to see how good that was only to discover that the SVA showed a poor open. My ohmmeter confirmed 50 Ohms? After close up inspection I notisted that the pin was much tinner, probebly a 75 Ohm connector.
I still think the site is good and I will try again when I have the right connectors.

Making your own calibration set is possible, but you need to keep high precision here.
In the case of the N connector there are greater distances and it should be remembered that the cable connected to the resistor must have an impedance of 50ohm (impedance not resistance). In principle, the resistor should also be non-inductive.
However, by using very short connections and a small resistor, this condition can be omitted (Can be made with small SMA connectors)...
 
Therefore, such a set will be easier to make using SMA connectors and using the SMA to N adapter.

Let's be more precise on this argument. It is positively possible to replicate a test kit, no doubt, therefore there are two main problems on such DIY products:
. as stated previously to get precision of results... you have to have high precision, big wallet instrumentation otherwise how do you think to get a kit fulfilling reference characteristics?
. The most important problem is... repeatability. The electrical characteristics of each single component of the kit must not significantly vary with else slight variations of test conditions or result in significant wear of the parts after few test sessions.
The mechanical stability of kit's components are the big culprit. The fact that at every connection/disconnection a mechanical degradation occurs is inevitable.
Only a professional can with much experience dimension, select and couple the materials used so that either after say 50 measure sessions each component shows nearly the same electrical characteristics as at its very first run.
If a test kit shows different results under the same testing conditions, sorry, it becomes a nonsense trying to calibrate an instrument with it.
This is the real reason why serious calibration kits cost in the thousands and more, stability of results reflecting in repeteatability of measures without near no divergence in values obtained.
That said, to make measures and calibrations as trustworthy as possible...:

. use as few transitions (between cables, adapters, connectors etc.) as feasible
. use good quality materials (e.g. Amphenol, Suhner etc.), no Chinese or whatever low cost material even if with very shiny and goldy look.
. no, I underline this in red, NO flexible or semi-rigid cables, use possibly rigid prebuild cables
. create a structural rigid setup connected to the ports of your instrument, possibly firmly fixed to a little tablet of RF insulating material e.g. PRFV, ceramic, PTFE etc.. I use a simple low cost porcelain stoneware tile from my last renovation and got optimal results up to and over 200Ghz.

Have precise measures.

My 10cents.

[TrAndy]

I was in doubt if I should post it here or in the post for the SVA but sinds the calibration is still a hot topic for the upgraded SSA I decided for this forum. If I was wrong then please move or delete this post.
I came along this post:
https://www.instructables.com/id/23GHz-SMA-Calibration-Kit/
I build it on a N-connector to see how good that was only to discover that the SVA showed a poor open. My ohmmeter confirmed 50 Ohms? After close up inspection I notisted that the pin was much tinner, probebly a 75 Ohm connector.
I still think the site is good and I will try again when I have the right connectors.

Making your own calibration set is possible, but you need to keep high precision here.
In the case of the N connector there are greater distances and it should be remembered that the cable connected to the resistor must have an impedance of 50ohm (impedance not resistance). In principle, the resistor should also be non-inductive.
However, by using very short connections and a small resistor, this condition can be omitted (Can be made with small SMA connectors)...
 
Therefore, such a set will be easier to make using SMA connectors and using the SMA to N adapter.

Let's be more precise on this argument. It is positively possible to replicate a test kit, no doubt, therefore there are two main problems connected with DIY products:
. as already stated previously, to get precision of results... you have to have high precision, big wallet instrumentation otherwise how do you think to get a kit fulfilling reference characteristics?
. The most important problem is... repeatability. The electrical characteristics of each single component of the kit must not significantly vary with else slight variations of test conditions or result in significant wear of the parts after few test sessions.
The mechanical stability of kit's components are the big culprit. The fact that at every connection/disconnection a mechanical degradation occurs is inevitable.
Only a professional can with much experience dimension, select and couple the materials used so that either after say 50 measure sessions each component shows nearly the same electrical characteristics as at its very first run.
If a test kit shows different results under the same testing conditions, sorry, it becomes a nonsense trying to calibrate an instrument with it.
This is the real reason why serious calibration kits cost in the thousands and more, stability of results reflecting in repeatability of measures without near no divergence in values obtained.
That said, to make measures and calibrations as trustworthy as possible...:

. use as few transitions (between cables, adapters, connectors etc.) as feasible
. use good quality materials (e.g. Amphenol, Suhner etc.), no Chinese or whatever low cost material even if with very shiny and goldy look.
. no, I underline this in red, NO flexible or semi-rigid cables, use possibly rigid prebuild cables
. create a structural rigid setup connected to the ports of your instrument, possibly firmly fixed to a little tablet of RF insulating material e.g. PRFV, ceramic, PTFE etc.. I use a simple low cost porcelain stoneware tile from my last renovation and got optimal results up to and over 200Ghz.

Have precise measures.

My 10cents.

Andreas

[Elasia]

I do also have that same set with 4 scope probes and 8 digital probes

very handy

sad they only go up to 100MHz ;(

P20B - NICE

Any chance of getting the Sensepeek probe (100Mhz) and hooking it up to the SSA - to see how long it stays 'flat' for ??

- just curious if its labeled at 100Mhz but has some more milage 

Yeah i'll sweep it if i remember sometime next week.. gear is busy atm

[noreply]

I do also have that same set with 4 scope probes and 8 digital probes

very handy

sad they only go up to 100MHz ;(

P20B - NICE

Any chance of getting the Sensepeek probe (100Mhz) and hooking it up to the SSA - to see how long it stays 'flat' for ??

- just curious if its labeled at 100Mhz but has some more milage 

Yeah i'll sweep it if i remember sometime next week.. gear is busy atm

I pushed the button - should have my probes in the next day 

[Elasia]

Pics of the official sma cal kit... spare no expenses! Look at that fine wood craftsmanship

 

[Elasia]

nt

[NoisyBoy]

Official as from Siglent?  Looks good, it is like the box they deliver limited edition in.

[Elasia]

Official as from Siglent?  Looks good, it is like the box they deliver limited edition in.

Yeah its singlets sma vna calibrators, the software already knows their specs and compensates as needed

[tautech]

Official as from Siglent?  Looks good, it is like the box they deliver limited edition in.

Yep, SVA1000X models accessory F603FE:
https://siglentna.com/product/sma-type-vna-calibration-kit/

[NoisyBoy]

Very nice!  Congrats, very nice setup.  Siglent continues to delivers great value with the help of the EEVBLOG community.

[noreply]

Pics of the official sma cal kit... spare no expenses! Look at that fine wood craftsmanship

If you still have (or ever got) the NanoVNA's SMA calibration kit - would be nice to see a direct comparison to the 'official' Siglent kit 

My bet is that the NanoVNA's kit is not that far off the 'official' 

But I can always be wrong 

[tautech]

Pics of the official sma cal kit... spare no expenses! Look at that fine wood craftsmanship

If you still have (or ever got) the NanoVNA's SMA calibration kit - would be nice to see a direct comparison to the 'official' Siglent kit 

My bet is that the NanoVNA's kit is not that far off the 'official' 

But I can always be wrong 

Keep you eyes peeled on the SVA thread in a few weeks when my F603FE Cal kit arrives.
I have a 7 GHz Kirkby SMA calibration 'correction' loaded into a fair dinkum SVA1032X and F603FE will be checked against it and another trip to see hendorog (my local VNA guru) might arise if he has any full Nano Cal kits left.

[Elasia]

More than likely or close.. Just get tau to chime in.... Edit: He posted just before me lol

I just got these to not have to muck around and they are known to the software already + sma type so easy to calibrate to whatever dut, all mine use sma connectors anyway


Or maybe I just wanted the box....

[noreply]

Or maybe I just wanted the box....

Well I am exhibiting some signs of Jealousy for the 'box' already - you know the old saying ... good things come inside small boxes

... looking foward to tautech feedback soon ...

[tautech]

Or maybe I just wanted the box....

Well I am exhibiting some signs of Jealousy for the 'box' already - you know the old saying ... good things come inside small boxes

... looking foward to tautech feedback soon ...

Oh and you can be sure it'll get tested on all of hendorog's VNA's as well !

~ mid July a few days after new shipment of Siglent goodies arrives....that's our midwinter so a good excuse to stay inside and play with toys. 

[hendorog]

Pics of the official sma cal kit... spare no expenses! Look at that fine wood craftsmanship

If you still have (or ever got) the NanoVNA's SMA calibration kit - would be nice to see a direct comparison to the 'official' Siglent kit 

My bet is that the NanoVNA's kit is not that far off the 'official' 

But I can always be wrong 

Keep you eyes peeled on the SVA thread in a few weeks when my F603FE Cal kit arrives.
I have a 7 GHz Kirkby SMA calibration 'correction' loaded into a fair dinkum SVA1032X and F603FE will be checked against it and another trip to see hendorog (my local VNA guru) might arise if he has any full Nano Cal kits left.

Yeah its more complicated than that. The SVA doesn't have data for my cal kit, and the SVA is limited to delay correction for custom cal kits. So you will see a difference, and logically it will be due to that limitation.

But bring it over and we can cal it again with your new kit. Then we can measure my cal kit and compare what it says with the measurements that Dr Kirkby supplied with it.
All going well they should be very close.

Then we can do the same with the Nano parts. Intuitively; it won't matter very much at lower frequencies, but will matter a lot at high frequencies.

I do like that box

[tomud]

Regarding calibrators, if you talk about amateur use, do not overdo it. SVA doesn't have great technical parameters and only hobbyists will buy it (dynamics 80-90dB is low for VNA). In addition to calibrators, make sure you have good cables, a torque wrench, and check connector geometry, etc. - and these are high prices that may exceed the price of SVA or converted SAA...

Recently, I was looking for Chinese calibrators and found a few that have positive reviews - I wonder if I would buy and test ...
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/Calibration-ANT-SWR-Antenna-Analyzer/706973_513292899.html

[noreply]

As promised - my first SSA /SVA accessory project

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/diy-test-equipment-hw-and-accessories-share-your-design-here/

Enjoy ...

Thanks to all for the comradeship during the SSA to SVA cross flashing 

[RellikJM]

Yet another SSA3012X Plus cross-flashed to SVA1032X. 

[noreply]

Just did some characterization (Freq response vs. gain)  of a few RF amplifiers using the TG

As I did this – I noted that it’s possible to set the TG level (I believe from -20dbm to 0dbm)

Is there a way to ‘sweep’ the TG level – for a fixed frequency?

It’s useful to characterize the RF amplifier’s input level gain vs. output gain and not just the general Freq response for a ‘fixed’ input gain

... just asking  ... in case I missed something in the use of the TG and possibly other settings I have not discoverd as yet

[pascal_sweden]

How is it possible to convert a Spectrum Analyzer into a Network Vector Analyzer by just reflashing the firmware?

Is the hardware identical?

Is an NVA better than an SA in all categories?

Is there a good detailed description available about the differences in capabilities of both devices?

How to crossflash a SSA3000X Plus into a SVA1032X:

1. Telnet into the equipment
2. rename
   /usr/bin/siglent/ecomb_p
   to
   /usr/bin/siglent/ecomb
3. in file /usr/bin/siglent/startup_app.sh change the line
   /usr/bin/siglent/ecomb_p &
   to
   /usr/bin/siglent/ecomb &
4. in file /usr/bin/siglent/config/NSP_config_upgrade_info.xml change the line
   <upgrade_static_id>11405</upgrade_static_id>
   to
   <upgrade_static_id>11403</upgrade_static_id>
5. Reboot
6. Now you can update your SSA with the Siglent's SVA stock FW.
   (should work with SVA1032X_2.2.1.2.5 or SVA1032X_2.2.1.2.7, at least)
7. After having flashed your first SVA stock FW, the SSA has become a "true" SVA.

To lower the risk you can do an additional step which is to activate the telned daemon before the line reference in step 3.
(for example, place there: /sbin/telnetd -l /bin/sh -p 10101  &     )

As always: do it at your own risk.

[tautech]

How is it possible to convert a Spectrum Analyzer into a Network Vector Analyzer by just reflashing the firmware?

Is the hardware identical?

Is an NVA better than an SA in all categories?

Is there a good detailed description available about the differences in capabilities of both devices?

They are both spectrum analyzers first and foremost but SVA models have the VNA additional capability.
Websites and datasheets are your friends. 
https://www.siglenteu.com/spectrum-analyzers/ssa3000x-series-spectrum-analyzers/
https://www.siglenteu.com/spectrum-analyzers/sva1000x-spectrum-vector-analyzer/

[tomud]

Is the hardware identical?

Yes...

SSA3021X Plus, SSA3032X Plus, SVA1032X this is the same hardware, only restrictions have been introduced using the firmware.

https://www.siglenteu.com/spectrum-analyzers/ssa3000x-plus/
https://www.siglenteu.com/spectrum-analyzers/sva1000x-spectrum-vector-analyzer/