Siglent SSA3000X and SSA3000X-Plus Spectrum Analyzers

[tautech]

New FW for SSA3kX models:

Version V1.2.8.3
http://siglentamerica.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=6381&tid=15
7.2 Mb

Changelog:
1.This firmware update will only work with instruments that have installed FW version
V1.2.8.1 or later. If your SSA3000X has an earlier version, please first update to V1.2.8.1
and then proceed to update to the latest version.
2. Improves the stability of sweep and avg detect.
3. Fixes existing bugs on sweep, frequency counter and Log-Log scale.
4. Fixes existing bugs on SCPI and the AMK option.

[dpenev]

Hi rf-loot,

Thank you for the measurements.
I have double check and clearly see the issue.
See attached.
Yellow measurement is for the span 0 - 50MHz
Pink trace is for the span 0 - 10MHz

In your case you have not checked the 50MHz range.
Can you set wide band white noise at the analyzer input (the signal level you have used I think should be OK)
Measure with the same settings you already used from 0 - 10MHz and then 0 -  50 MHz.

Thanks
Dimitar

I confirm that the new firmware version 1.2.8.3 seems fixes this bug.

Dimitar

[videobruce]

Wow, that was overdue, I was wondering if that was as far as they were going.   
Between the issues listed below (other then physical changes), which were addressed??

Many of these have already been reported I'm told by Siglent, but since I already composed a list of needed 'changes' I'll post them here for convenience. Note " 1" is skipped since it requires a separate entry due to it being what I consider fairly severe!

2.Trying to use the Normalize function with the Tracking Generator when the 'Units' are set to anything other than dBm will not work. Normalize is grayed out. One has to remember to go back and change the setting to dBm unlike other SA's that do this automatically (Rigol for starters). Note, dBmV has been common for receive measurements for Signal Level Meters (MATV/CATV etc) for as long as I can remember.

3. Tracking Generator menu: Remove the "Normalize" soft key on the 1st page since all it is is a .next page' go to button and move the four entries on that 2nd page to page one. There will still be a vacant soft key left over. This eliminates jumping back and forth between pages something they have done well to eliminate over the Rigol menu structure.

4. No mechanical power button. I see no reason why ALL test equipment shouldn't have one. Yes, they can be connected to switched power strips, but having a true removal of power w/o physically unplugging can also be a safety factor. Keep the standby button, but I'm sure there is room on the rear panel for a rocker switch.

5. The 'standby mode' is a power hog by todays standards. Five watts running 24/7 shouldn't be acceptable anymore. That's 1/6th of the operational current (28-29 watts). I assume this has wake on LAN or similar? Fine, but does it have to be that much of a hog? How about a option to disable and 'wake' mode to get the draw down below 1 watt (EPA standard)? At least that would be a somewhat quick fix, assuming it can be done thru the firmware.

6. Need a option to blank out the ridiculously long default name/number assigned to saved screen shots. Considering that the time & date is in the instrument directory and when copied to a flash drive, there isn't any real need for it to be the file name. Deleting it one digit at a time is even more annoying.

7. Those annoying front feet that collapses ever time they are extended after one picks up the instrument by the handle when it brushes the desk or table top is really annoying. Copying a good idea is one thing, but copying a bad idea is another.

8. How about a carrying case option? One that is designed to allow actually using the SA while still in the case. Mind you, I'm not suggesting climbing a tower, utility pole or rooftop, just for remote monitoring etc where AC is available.

Apparently everyone uses auto settings for Sweep, RBW & VBW since no one here has apparently noticed this somewhat severe firmware problem as follows. 
This has been reported and confirmed!

To justify my reason to declare this a #1 is this; the need for speed for real time monitoring complex waveforms. Namely ATSC (8VSB) for OTA (Over The Air) broadcast TV for just one example. Many analyzers allow adjusting sweep speeds in manual mode and they stay set no matter what is done otherwise,. But once set, the setting doesn't change (and shouldn't) if it is in 'Manual' mode.

Knowing that there isn't any free ride, in this case accuracy, something usually has to suffer which is acceptable in this case since missing changes in the signal for the sake of accuracy isn't. Manual modes are provided for a purpose. They allow operator choices which they should. You don't have to use them, but they are still there. I for one prefer to take advantage of a supplied option. 

Setup conditions (easy to duplicate):

1. Place the RBW, VBW & Sweep settings all in manual mode. Set the two bandwidths to a middle setting. Settings for the attenuator or units shouldn't matter. No signal is required.

2. Change the Sweep to the fastest setting (usually 24ms)

3. Set the frequency range to whatever you want, the full bandwidth is fine though I never have a need for that. My ranges are usually between 50 & 500 Mhz.

4. Go to the BW page and start changing either of the two adjustments paying attention to the sweep speed. You can use either the 'jog' dial or the up/down buttons. You will see it drop to the next slower speed.

5. Now, here where it gets more interesting, return to the previous setting. Note the sweep speed still slowing instead of returning to where it was. Everytime you make any adjustment to either the RBW or the VBW in either direction the sweep slows down to the next fixed setting forcing one to return to the sweep page and crank to back to the fastest setting allowed. Trying to get a respectable display is a real chore jumping back and forth between BW & Sweep.

This brings up a few questions;
A. Why is it changing in the first place since all settings are in or supposed to be in manual mode??
B. Why are these preset sweep speeds fixed at these 'odd' figures? Some mathematical formula and/or a limitation of the system??

With further testing I did find a couple of exceptions where the speed reversed direction, but only to a certain extent.

And no one noticed this at all??   

I trust this was spelled out enough to get a handle on it. If it wasn't please ask where I lost anyone.

[N8AUM]

Regarding the tracking generator: can someone verify that with a different spectrum analyser? It looks so bad that it must be a measurement error!

It's still within specs ;-)



Also Rigol's TG is not that brilliant ...



I wonder about the performance of incoming SSA3000X improved version.

My Rigol 815 TG output set at 0dbm going straight into my ol HP-8591E. 2nd pic is same setup but with 10db pad on output and 10db pad on input. HP set at 1db/div.

[N8AUM]

Regarding the tracking generator: can someone verify that with a different spectrum analyser? It looks so bad that it must be a measurement error!

It's still within specs ;-)



Also Rigol's TG is not that brilliant ...



I wonder about the performance of incoming SSA3000X improved version.

My 815-TG set at 0dbm with 10db pad on output and 10db pad on input of my ol HP-8591E. 2nd pic is without any attenuators.
Center of the HP is 0dbm at 1db/div

73 N8AUM  Vidas

[videobruce]

Other then the 'fix' (removal) for the unnecessary 2nd page for the TG function and fixing the ability to use the TG even if the amplitude units are set to dBmv, has anyone found any changes with the 8.3 F/W??   

To update the 'quirks/issues (added lack of working file delete);

1. Sweep speeds keep decreasing ever time one adjust the RBW and/or VBW either way. This has been reported and confirmed. Setup conditions (easy to duplicate):
..A. Place the RBW, VBW & Sweep settings all in manual mode. Set the two bandwidths to a middle setting. Settings for the attenuator or units shouldn't matter. No signal is required.
..B. Change the Sweep to the fastest setting (usually 24ms)
..C. Set the frequency range to whatever you want, the full bandwidth is fine though I never have a need for that. My ranges are usually between 50 & 500 Mhz.
..D. Go to the BW page and start changing either of the two adjustments paying attention to the sweep speed[/b]. You can use either the 'jog' dial or the up/down buttons. You will see it drop to the next slower speed.
..E. Return to the previous setting. Note the sweep speed still slowing instead of returning to where it was. Everytime you make any adjustment to either the RBW or the VBW in either direction the sweep slows down to the next fixed setting forcing one to return to the sweep page and readjust the setting.. Trying to get a respectable display is a real chore jumping back and forth between BW & Sweep.

2. No mechanical power button. I see no reason why ALL test equipment shouldn't have one. Yes, they can be connected to switched power strips, but having a true removal of power w/o physically unplugging can also be a safety factor. Keep the standby button, but I'm sure there is room on the rear panel for a rocker switch.
3. The 'standby mode' is a power hog by todays standards. Five watts running 24/7 shouldn't be acceptable anymore. That's 1/6th of the operational current (28-29 watts). I assume this has wake on LAN or similar? Fine, but does it have to be that much of a hog? How about a option to disable and 'wake' mode to get the draw down below 1 watt (EPA standard)? At least that would be a somewhat quick fix, assuming it can be done thru the firmware.
4. Option to blank out the ridiculously long default name/number assigned to saved screen shots. Considering that the time & date is in the instrument directory and when copied to a flash drive, there isn't any real need for it to be the file name. Deleting it one digit at a time is even more annoying.
5. Unable to delete files even thou the function button is there.
6.  Annoying front feet that collapse ever time they are extended after one picks up the instrument by the handle when it brushes the desk or table top. Copying a good idea is one thing, but copying a bad idea is another (Rigol).
7. Carrying case option that allows actually using the SA while still in the case. For everyday use away from the bench.

[N8AUM]

Difference between Rigol and Siglent TG output scan between 0 and 1.5GHz scan. Both SA's had a 10db attenuator on input and TG output. Notice the sudden 1db drop at 600MHz on Siglent.  looks like crap compared to Rigol but still within spec. I remember Rigol had something similar way back when but they came out with a firmware fix. Thank GOD for normalization LOL !
Sorry, I forgot to mention that i used the Rigol to measure the Siglent and the Siglent to measure the Rigol.
 
73 N8AUM  Vidas

[hendorog]

Difference between Rigol and Siglent TG output scan between 0 and 1.5GHz scan. Both SA's had a 10db attenuator on input and TG output. Notice the sudden 1db drop at 600MHz on Siglent.  looks like crap compared to Rigol but still within spec. I remember Rigol had something similar way back when but they came out with a firmware fix. Thank GOD for normalization LOL ! 
 
73 N8AUM  Vidas

Are you sure you got those around the right way? The Siglent looks much flatter than the Rigol to me.

Edit: Or did I miss something - perhaps you used the Siglent to measure the Rigol and vice versa?

[N8AUM]

Difference between Rigol and Siglent TG output scan between 0 and 1.5GHz scan. Both SA's had a 10db attenuator on input and TG output. Notice the sudden 1db drop at 600MHz on Siglent.  looks like crap compared to Rigol but still within spec. I remember Rigol had something similar way back when but they came out with a firmware fix. Thank GOD for normalization LOL ! 
 
73 N8AUM  Vidas

Are you sure you got those around the right way? The Siglent looks much flatter than the Rigol to me.

Edit: Or did I miss something - perhaps you used the Siglent to measure the Rigol and vice versa?

Sorry, I forgot to mention that I used the Rigol to measure the Siglent and the Siglent to measure the Rigol. My HP took a dump otherwise I would have used it to compare, sorry 4 the confusion !

[tautech]

Sorry, I forgot to mention that I used the Rigol to measure the Siglent and the Siglent to measure the Rigol. My HP took a dump otherwise I would have used it to compare, sorry 4 the confusion !

Confusion reigns if you don't bother to mention the firmware version for each model. 

[hendorog]

Difference between Rigol and Siglent TG output scan between 0 and 1.5GHz scan. Both SA's had a 10db attenuator on input and TG output. Notice the sudden 1db drop at 600MHz on Siglent.  looks like crap compared to Rigol but still within spec. I remember Rigol had something similar way back when but they came out with a firmware fix. Thank GOD for normalization LOL ! 
 
73 N8AUM  Vidas

Are you sure you got those around the right way? The Siglent looks much flatter than the Rigol to me.

Edit: Or did I miss something - perhaps you used the Siglent to measure the Rigol and vice versa?

Sorry, I forgot to mention that I used the Rigol to measure the Siglent and the Siglent to measure the Rigol. My HP took a dump otherwise I would have used it to compare, sorry 4 the confusion !

You need to check in at the TEA thread 

[N8AUM]

Sorry, I forgot to mention that I used the Rigol to measure the Siglent and the Siglent to measure the Rigol. My HP took a dump otherwise I would have used it to compare, sorry 4 the confusion !

Confusion reigns if you don't bother to mention the firmware version for each model. 

Firmware: Rigol 01.17, Siglent 1.2.8.3

[Bicurico]

This is how it looks on a R&S CRTU (100kHz - 2.7GHz).

Note that the TG is normally NORMALIZED: you measure the TG signal over the desired frequency range by connecting TG OUTPUT to RF INPUT.
THEN you connect the DUT and the measurement will show the results with a CALIBRATED TG SIGNAL.

The deviation is not that important and even my better signal noise source has a higher deviation over such a large frequency range.

The attached image shows the MAXIMUM signal power and took around 5 minutes to generate. The reason is obviously the non-syncronized TG output sweep vs the spectrum input sweep. This accounts for a significant error, as you may see values that were captured under the required time, because the TG moved to the next frequency, before the measurement was complete. The longer you let this setup run, the smoother and flatter the curve will get.

In my opinion this is not a good way to actually evaluate a TG of an SSA.

It would be better to compare actual DUT measurements between different devices: if you have a Rigol and a Siglent, measure the same DUT (i.e. filter or attenuator) and compare results.

Regards,
Vitor

[videobruce]

You need to check in at the TEA thread 

"TEA" thread?? 

[Bicurico]

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/

TEA = Test Equipment Anonymous

The thread "helps" Test Equipment Addicted to deal with their addiction of purchasing test equipment, they don't really need.

This can go from mild disorder like myself (owning i.e. two spectrum analyzer, two oscilloscopes and >20 TV field meter, amogst an assortment of all sorts of test equipment, signal sources, antennas, etc.) to some serious disorders where people hord test equipment which in the end doesn't fit inside the house anymore.

Regards,
Vitor

[DL4RAJ]

Folks,

what are you doing or discussing here doesn't make any sense.
A tracking generator is called tracking generator because it TRACKS the SA's sweeping frequency.
So if you feed the TG from e.g. a Siglent into any other SA,no matter if Rigol, HP or whatever,
it cannot track the SA's sweep because it is not locked to the SA's LO(s).
So it's just random results what you are seeing.When at a certain point of time the SA's tracking filter is on another frequency than the TG the input impedance of the SA as seen by the TG is high and reactive.
That's why you can reduce the amplitude variations by putting in some attenuation.
For further in depth information I recommend reading
" Spectrum Analysis Basics" - Application Note 150 by keysight/HP.

73
Clemens

[Bicurico]

Folks,

what are you doing or discussing here doesn't make any sense.
A tracking generator is called tracking generator because it TRACKS the SA's sweeping frequency.
So if you feed the TG from e.g. a Siglent into any other SA,no matter if Rigol, HP or whatever,
it cannot track the SA's sweep because it is not locked to the SA's LO(s).
So it's just random results what you are seeing.When at a certain point of time the SA's tracking filter is on another frequency than the TG the input impedance of the SA as seen by the TG is high and reactive.
That's why you can reduce the amplitude variations by putting in some attenuation.
For further in depth information I recommend reading
" Spectrum Analysis Basics" - Application Note 150 by keysight/HP.

73
Clemens

Dito (two or three posts above):

"The attached image shows the MAXIMUM signal power and took around 5 minutes to generate. The reason is obviously the non-syncronized TG output sweep vs the spectrum input sweep. This accounts for a significant error, as you may see values that were captured under the required time, because the TG moved to the next frequency, before the measurement was complete. The longer you let this setup run, the smoother and flatter the curve will get.

In my opinion this is not a good way to actually evaluate a TG of an SSA."

Thanks for your confirmation, though!

Regards,
Vitor

[videobruce]

Bicurico; sorry I asked. 

[DL4RAJ]

Hi Vitor,

sorry for having overlooked your post in this long thread.

Clemens

[Bicurico]

No problem. Apologies if I sounded arrogant, that was not my intention.

Cheers,
Vitor

[DL4RAJ]

Don't worry,you did not sound arrogant at all.

C.

[N8AUM]

Folks,

what are you doing or discussing here doesn't make any sense.
A tracking generator is called tracking generator because it TRACKS the SA's sweeping frequency.
So if you feed the TG from e.g. a Siglent into any other SA,no matter if Rigol, HP or whatever,
it cannot track the SA's sweep because it is not locked to the SA's LO(s).
So it's just random results what you are seeing.When at a certain point of time the SA's tracking filter is on another frequency than the TG the input impedance of the SA as seen by the TG is high and reactive.
That's why you can reduce the amplitude variations by putting in some attenuation.
For further in depth information I recommend reading
" Spectrum Analysis Basics" - Application Note 150 by keysight/HP.

73
Clemens

Altho not perfect but using couple 10db attenuators will give you a ROUGH idea on what the TG output looks like.   

[tefe]

Difference between Rigol and Siglent TG output scan between 0 and 1.5GHz scan. Both SA's had a 10db attenuator on input and TG output. Notice the sudden 1db drop at 600MHz on Siglent.  looks like crap compared to Rigol but still within spec. I remember Rigol had something similar way back when but they came out with a firmware fix. Thank GOD for normalization LOL !
Sorry, I forgot to mention that i used the Rigol to measure the Siglent and the Siglent to measure the Rigol.
 
73 N8AUM  Vidas

I think we'd better compare between 3.2G model ---- DSA832 and SSA3032X. Does anyone has DSA832-TG?
I once designed a 1G and 3G Hz source, and I had to tradeoff many on 3G model. If I only designed a 1G source, many would be better.

[tautech]

Owners are asked to give advice:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/easyspectrum-for-ssa3000x-is-it-useful/

[N8AUM]

SSA3032X TG output shut off after being on several hrs even tho it says its on. Turned off TG than on again but still no output. Reset (Preset) no help, had to power cycle unit in order to get TG to work again.

SSA3032X Firmware ver 1.2.8.3