Siglent SNA5000A two and four port VNA's

[tautech]

VNA resources, app notes etc
https://siglentna.com/vector-network-analysis-component-characterization/

[tautech]

SNA5004A
Member EE-digger asked for some HPAK Cal kit support screenshots.
15 HPAK Cal kits are supported.


Cal kit used F603FE Female 4.5 GHz 3.5 mm at the end of 500mm So-So cheap SMA cable connected to N-SMA adapter on N type port. Basic SOL Cal performed.

[EE-digger]

Thanks for those images, Rob. 

I received my new SNA5000A the other day and the VNA side is excellent, everything I had hoped it would be to replace an Agilent PNA.

The VNA menu flow will take some getting used to.  Agilent was always about the best on the market, except for markers which always sucked.  Siglent's markers are a little bit better, but different.

To me, S11 noise floor (directivity) immediately after a cal is a good indicator of instrument quality.  The SNA returns a nice < -70 dB across the range.  The SVA1032X, for comparison, returns typically -55dB with the same cal kit.  The cal also appears to be quite stable over several hours, probably more.

The VNA port extensions and fixturing look very good.  Spent time with the port extensions and was pleased to find AUTO open or short extensions.  I'm experimenting with a variety of cal kit parts and this is handy to have.

The Spectrum Analyzer (timed demo) is what they say it is and LESS.  Siglent calls it basic spectrum analysis.  A big surprise is that it is not a swept superhet type of SA.  They use various mixing / multi level suppression methods which I can just grasp.

The SA lacks MANY of what we've come used to seeing on an analyzer.  You can't even change input attenuation in, say, 10dB steps.  It only has a "standard", "low noise" and "auto" setting.  What it is providing is not published and I didn't have time to test it.  The SA lacks most additional functions found in a $1600 SSA3021X-P.  The input has NO correction capabilities, another disappointment.  Not to remain on this downhill slope, I'll stop.

But the VNA shines and I love it.  The SA should be FREE in its current form.  The Time Domain math (also timed demo) looks very good.

For a handful of minutes I was in fear of not being able to display a stored trace and a live on top of it.  Siglent does not make this easy.  But their trace COPY, MOVE and other stuff seems pretty complete.  I was able to get a live and stored overlayed but need to do it a few more times.  I think this would make a good YouTube video as it's commonly used.  Maybe when I get some free time.  update - displaying live and stored trace is a piece of cake which I missed.  It's under MATH.

So in summary, after two days of major playing, the VNA gets 10 chili peppers while the SA gets a 0.5 chili pepper.

[tautech]

Screenshots of interesting stuff or it's all lies Dennis. 

[EE-digger]

Here is a selection of screen shots from the SNA5002A.  I only included one SA image but in answer to those wondering about the low end, it looks good down to 9kHz.

The S11 noise floor seems to vary with IFBW (not always better when lower) and the number of points helps.  I like to run 1601 points out of old habit.

Some of the shots show the hard keys on and off.  Siglent was genius to include the hard keys on the remote interface.  You don't NEED to have them on because you can go back from the column of soft keys, with a lot more button pushing.

All I can say is that I'm very happy with the VNA. The SA is in a different league and that's all I'll say on this glorious day 

< OPEN EACH IMAGE IN A NEW TAB FOR FULL RESOLUTION >

[fjullien]

Hi EE-digger,

For a handful of minutes I was in fear of not being able to display a stored trace and a live on top of it.  Siglent does not make this easy.  But their trace COPY, MOVE and other stuff seems pretty complete.  I was able to get a live and stored overlayed but need to do it a few more times.  I think this would make a good YouTube video as it's commonly used.  Maybe when I get some free time.  update - displaying live and stored trace is a piece of cake which I missed.  It's under MATH.

Could you please detail how you got this working?
I'm still looking for this after several minutes

Franck.

[fjullien]

Ok, I think I've found it. The "Data->Memory" button copies the trace to the memory of this one trace.
Then, "Display" let you choose if you want to display the trace or trace+memory or the memory alone.

[EE-digger]

Glad you found it.  There are other things which could use written help somewhere.

Averaging is another.  In VNA, you enable averaging under the IFBW button.  In SA, like many SAs, you change the trace type (under math, trace type) to averaging.  Averaging then appears on the soft keys.

I'm also in search mode, see next post.

[EE-digger]

The SNA5000A does not have a ZERO SPAN mode for the SA.  This is a real problem because without it, you can't examine any time domain characteristics of a single frequency signal (for instance, advertising on Bluetooth).

I hope Siglent will add this at some point.  I hope they can.

[EE-digger]

In VNA mode, does anyone know if there's a way to use a delta marker between a memory trace and the current data?  The memory trace does have it's own markers, using the same marker numbers but in their own little world.

[gordoncs]

BW45 - BandWidth-4.5G
BW85 - BandWidth-8.5G

Many thanks to TV84 for the BW information.

And is this correct? BW135 - 13.5G BW265 - 26.5G

[tautech]

BW45 - BandWidth-4.5G
BW85 - BandWidth-8.5G

Many thanks to TV84 for the BW information.

And is this correct? BW135 - 13.5G BW265 - 26.5G

Only for the later models that support these frequencies.
https://int.siglent.com/products-overview/sna5000a/
Frequency range: 9 kHz ~ 8.5 GHz and 100 kHz - 26.5 GHz

[gordoncs]

Thanks to tautech

I'll buy a SA5022A, and want to 26.5

[tautech]

Thanks to tautech

I'll buy a SA5022A, and want to 26.5

Keep us posted. 

One other point about the high BW models, they are only currently available as 2 port models and have NMD 3.5 mm port terminals......but these 4 port monsters might be coming......as the switch matrix is already available.
https://siglentna.com/rf-switch-systems/ssm5000a-switch-matrix/

[tautech]

Thanks to tautech

I'll buy a SA5022A, and want to 26.5

Keep us posted. 

One other point about the high BW models, they are only currently available as 2 port models and have NMD 3.5 mm port terminals......but these 4 port monsters might be coming......as the switch matrix is already available.
https://siglentna.com/rf-switch-systems/ssm5000a-switch-matrix/

We played (well hendorog mainly) with one of these 20kg 26.5 GHz beasts at HQ last week and lucky we were travelling light or it woulda ended up in hendorog's luggage. 

We'll have more news on SNA6000A western release soon......

[tautech]

New firmware for SNA5000A models

Version： V1.0.0.2.12
73 MB
4.5-8.5 GHz models
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Vector%20Network%20Analyzer/SNA5000_V1.0.0.2.12_EN.zip

13.5-26.5 GHz models
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Vector%20Network%20Analyzer/SNA5022A&SNA5032A_V1.0.0.2.12.zip

Release notes
1. Add material measurement function option
2. Add switch matrix expansion multi-port application options

[tv84]

Current options with V1.0.0.2.12.

[tautech]

Current options with V1.0.0.2.12.

WRT the attachment, there is no such western model as SNA5054X.
Best 4 port VNA currently available is SNA5014A. 

[tv84]

WRT the attachment, there is no such western model as SNA5054X.
Best 4 port VNA currently available is SNA5014A. 

No geographic war intended... I played with a eastern toy.

As you know, SNA5054X = SNA5004A and with RFE8 becomes a SNA5084X (SNA5014A).

Edit: Added an "A model" to make tautech happy.

[tautech]

WRT the attachment, there is no such western model as SNA5054X.
Best 4 port VNA currently available is SNA5014A. 

No geographic war intended... I played with a eastern toy.

As you know, SNA5054X = SNA5004A and with RFE8 becomes a SNA5084X (SNA5014A).

Done ?
 

[starlite4321]

Hi tautech,

I'm considering buying an SNA5004A and am wondering about the current state of the SA option.  Shahriar has never produced the promised Part 2 of his review and that along with many posts I've read makes me concerned it's still basically a mess.  Is that true ?  It's been quite awhile now, if the problems still haven't been addressed it seems unlikely Siglent will ever fix it ?  Any information would be appreciated !

Thanks, Russ

[tautech]

TSP review was Aug 22.
In the subsequent 7 firmware release notes we can see mention of improvements made to the SA mode.
https://int.siglent.com/download/firmwares/?ProId=58

[starlite4321]

Thanks for the response.  Many of those updates occured well before many of the complaints I'm reading.  Did the latest updates actually address the concerns in the posts and especially those that Shahriar had ?
Thanks !

[EE-digger]

The SA option, in Siglent's own words, is a basic spectrum analyzer function.  An SSA3021X plus for instance, will functionally run rings around the SNA-SA option, except for frequency range.  The SNA-SA does not have any of the AMA, DMA or other analysis functions.  It is also missing some fundamental items like zero span.

Consider it a means to check for the presence of a signal and not much more than that.  I believe Shariar said the same thing ... check for presence of a signal.

It also lacks EMI and many other functions.

Be aware of what it is before you consider buying it.  It is not a conventional swept tuned superhet receiver type of analyzer.  It does some (what I will call) RF magic to produce the SA function from the VNA hardware structure.

I believe Siglent has had much input on the SA function and we'll see where it goes in the future.

The latest firmware release only provides support for a switch matrix and support for material measurements.  The latter is useful mostly at higher frequencies and if you are into the measurement of physical RF properties of dielectrics, etc.

Siglent has a very nice VNA in the VNA and certain improvements will make it even better.  The SA option needs a tremendous amount of work. 

Your best bet is to evaluate it against your needs.  But again, it is very, very basic.

[starlite4321]

Thanks for the response EE-digger,

Yeah, having read this thread and similar elsewhere I’m aware the SA functionality is very basic.  I have sort of the inverse problem with my SVA1032 which is a nice SA but a very limited VNA.  But having properly working even limited SA capability in the SNA can eliminate the need to break configuration sometimes and that can be useful.

What I was hoping to hear from tautech is if the problems that have been reported are fixed.  Also, if he thinks Siglent is done doing whatever they ever intend to do with it at this point.

tautech ?