Building a lab from the ground up. Need some suggestions.

[AndyC_772]

I spec'd a DS4054 for the office a few years ago.

Make sure you get a good demo before parting with any cash, and by 'good', I mean a couple of days' loan. Not just a quick sales pitch.

The DS4000 series has a feature set that puts a lot of ticks in boxes, but as a day-to-day instument to use and make a living with, I'm glad I have an Agilent 3000X instead. One scope is clearly designed to ensure its manufacturer has a competitive offering at a particular point in the marketplace, while the other is a scope designed by engineers to meet the technical and usability requirements of other engineers.

[PaulStoffregen]

Certainly Rigol is an excellent buy for 3-digit dollars.  If you're just getting started with electronics, the DS1054Z is a great place to start.  Unless you already have quite a lot of experience using oscilloscopes, in the long run you'll probably save much more than $400 by learning first on a DS1054Z.  It's also quite capable, so odds are also good you won't feel much need to buy anything better for quite a long time.  By then, better products will exist.

But if you are going to spend more now, I'd also recommend looking at Keysight (formerly Agilent) if you're looking going to spend much more than those low-end Rigol scopes.  I have an Agilent on my desk, and I've used the Rigol scopes several times.  I'd say the Agilent is about 2X, maybe 3X nicer, for about 10X the price.

The trouble with online spec lists is they lack the truly important things, like how responsive the user interface is (especially as more features are turned on), how free of bugs and poor design the firmware is, whether the front panel is easy to learn and use, and whether the rapid capture rate and intensity grading actually helps you to notice some infrequent behavior.  Many products exist with impressive spec lists, which are intended to sway inexperienced buyers and non-technical people like managers and purchasing agents who are often the people that make the purchase decisions in corporate settings.

[cvriv]

Certainly Rigol is an excellent buy for 3-digit dollars.  If you're just getting started with electronics, the DS1054Z is a great place to start.  Unless you already have quite a lot of experience using oscilloscopes, in the long run you'll probably save much more than $400 by learning first on a DS1054Z.  It's also quite capable, so odds are also good you won't feel much need to buy anything better for quite a long time.  By then, better products will exist.

But if you are going to spend more now, I'd also recommend looking at Keysight (formerly Agilent) if you're looking going to spend much more than those low-end Rigol scopes.  I have an Agilent on my desk, and I've used the Rigol scopes several times.  I'd say the Agilent is about 2X, maybe 3X nicer, for about 10X the price.

The trouble with online spec lists is they lack the truly important things, like how responsive the user interface is (especially as more features are turned on), how free of bugs and poor design the firmware is, whether the front panel is easy to learn and use, and whether the rapid capture rate and intensity grading actually helps you to notice some infrequent behavior.  Many products exist with impressive spec lists, which are intended to sway inexperienced buyers and non-technical people like managers and purchasing agents who are often the people that make the purchase decisions in corporate settings.

Yea I was looking at the Agilents and theyvare nice. I was checking out Agilent DSOX2014A. I think its the maximum in price in price im willing to go. Its 100mhz and has a 2g sample rate. It only has 100kpts mem depth though? The rigols have like 12Mpts mem depth. Whats up with that? I want something that going to give me good detail. I want to be able to zoom in nicely on a waveform. I want to be able to see whats going on with these waveforms as im messing around building stuff. I really dont want to buy a basic or base model scope. I might be happy with it when it comes in the mail and first start using it, but ibk know that im going to learn real quick and will be inhappy with it shortly after. I will be using this thing to learn and maybe even to make money someday soon. I dont know.

I just got all the money i asked for so i know how much total i can spend. But have no idea what to get. This is very frustrating.

[cvriv]

Certainly Rigol is an excellent buy for 3-digit dollars.  If you're just getting started with electronics, the DS1054Z is a great place to start.  Unless you already have quite a lot of experience using oscilloscopes, in the long run you'll probably save much more than $400 by learning first on a DS1054Z.  It's also quite capable, so odds are also good you won't feel much need to buy anything better for quite a long time.  By then, better products will exist.

But if you are going to spend more now, I'd also recommend looking at Keysight (formerly Agilent) if you're looking going to spend much more than those low-end Rigol scopes.  I have an Agilent on my desk, and I've used the Rigol scopes several times.  I'd say the Agilent is about 2X, maybe 3X nicer, for about 10X the price.

The trouble with online spec lists is they lack the truly important things, like how responsive the user interface is (especially as more features are turned on), how free of bugs and poor design the firmware is, whether the front panel is easy to learn and use, and whether the rapid capture rate and intensity grading actually helps you to notice some infrequent behavior.  Many products exist with impressive spec lists, which are intended to sway inexperienced buyers and non-technical people like managers and purchasing agents who are often the people that make the purchase decisions in corporate settings.

Yea I was looking at the Agilents and theyvare nice. I was checking out Agilent DSOX2014A. I think its the maximum in price in price im willing to go. Its 100mhz and has a 2g sample rate. It only has 100kpts mem depth though? The rigols have like 12Mpts mem depth. Whats up with that? I want something that going to give me good detail. I want to be able to zoom in nicely on a waveform. I want to be able to see whats going on with these waveforms as im messing around building stuff. I really dont want to buy a basic or base model scope. I might be happy with it when it comes in the mail and first start using it, but ibk know that im going to learn real quick and will be inhappy with it shortly after. I will be using this thing to learn and maybe even to make money someday soon. I dont know.

I just got all the money i asked for so i know how much total i can spend. But have no idea what to get. This is very frustrating.

[nbritton]

I actually want to get the DS4024. 200mhz, 4 channels, and 4GSa/s sample rate. Beautiful. It's pretty badass. I sent tequipment.net an email about making a purchase and if they have any deals for customers that spend over a certain amount. I know im not going to spend as much as some people or even as much as what some single pieces of equipment go for, but i thought it couldnt hurt to ask.

Unless you have a moral objection to hacking, that is a bad choice because the DS4014 can be software hacked to 600 MHz, just like the DS4024. I own an MSO4014, I have nothing bad to say about it yet, but I've only owned it for a month. I got a really really good deal on mine, if it wasn't for that I wouldn't have bought it. If you can afford it look into the Tektronix MDO3014, this scope can be hacked to 500 MHz. I don't recommend Keysight or LeCroy because nobody knows how to hack them yet.

[nbritton]

I just got all the money i asked for so i know how much total i can spend. But have no idea what to get. This is very frustrating.

How much is all the money that you asked for? Do you want 2 or 4 analog channels? Do you want integrated logic analyzer for mixed signal capabilities? Do you want an arbitrary waveform generator? Do you want a spectrum analyzer? I just went through this process myself and it is very frustrating.

[timb]

Make sure you budget in cables, probes, leads and adapters. Good quality ones can be outrageously expensive. I'm talking little things like high quality BNC cables, 50 ohm terminators, tee adapters and couplers. A single terminator can cost over $75!

Here eBay can save you some money. I see Pomona 50 ohm cable sets going for peanuts all the time (they generally come from decommissioned ATE setups or the like). Used 50 ohm terminators are also a safe bet, so long as the resistor hasn't been burnt out. Easy enough to test.

Stick with brands like Pomona, Tektronix or HPilentsight. Don't pay too much, wait for a deal.


Sent from my Tablet

[cvriv]

I just got all the money i asked for so i know how much total i can spend. But have no idea what to get. This is very frustrating.

How much is all the money that you asked for? Do you want 2 or 4 analog channels? Do you want integrated logic analyzer for mixed signal capabilities? Do you want an arbitrary waveform generator? Do you want a spectrum analyzer? I just went through this process myself and it is very frustrating.

I have a little over 6000 to spend on equipment. I'm willing to spend every single penny on a penny on building a lab. I have a feeling I wont have any equipment purchased and ready to go for next semester. I'm going to slow down with this and think............   

[rsjsouza]

I actually want to get the DS4024. 200mhz, 4 channels, and 4GSa/s sample rate. Beautiful. It's pretty badass. I sent tequipment.net an email about making a purchase and if they have any deals for customers that spend over a certain amount. I know im not going to spend as much as some people or even as much as what some single pieces of equipment go for, but i thought it couldnt hurt to ask.

Unless you have a moral objection to hacking, that is a bad choice because the DS4014 can be software hacked to 600 MHz, just like the DS4024. I own an MSO4014, I have nothing bad to say about it yet, but I've only owned it for a month. I got a really really good deal on mine, if it wasn't for that I wouldn't have bought it. If you can afford it look into the Tektronix MDO3014, this scope can be hacked to 500 MHz. I don't recommend Keysight or LeCroy because nobody knows how to hack them yet.

The DS4000 is a good oscilloscope if you get a good deal. One additional detail: when searching around, keep in mind that an extensive thread about the DS4000 lists several bugs that were already fixed.

[cvriv]

I actually want to get the DS4024. 200mhz, 4 channels, and 4GSa/s sample rate. Beautiful. It's pretty badass. I sent tequipment.net an email about making a purchase and if they have any deals for customers that spend over a certain amount. I know im not going to spend as much as some people or even as much as what some single pieces of equipment go for, but i thought it couldnt hurt to ask.

Unless you have a moral objection to hacking, that is a bad choice because the DS4014 can be software hacked to 600 MHz, just like the DS4024. I own an MSO4014, I have nothing bad to say about it yet, but I've only owned it for a month. I got a really really good deal on mine, if it wasn't for that I wouldn't have bought it. If you can afford it look into the Tektronix MDO3014, this scope can be hacked to 500 MHz. I don't recommend Keysight or LeCroy because nobody knows how to hack them yet.

The DS4000 is a good oscilloscope if you get a good deal. One additional detail: when searching around, keep in mind that an extensive thread about the DS4000 lists several bugs that were already fixed.

I found thread and it turned me off from buying the scope. Let me ask you, how is it that the Rigol scopes have 12 and 14Mpts mem depth and the Agilents only have like 100kpts per channel?? I saw. Siglent with 28Mpts! Whats going on with that? Also, some scopes say 2Gs/s total and it splits per channel. The more channels you use at once, the more its split, fine. Some say 1Gs/s each channel. Thats seems better, right? It says per channel, im assuming the total is 1Gs/s but each channel is 1Gs/s. Im checking out the Agilent MSOX2012A, butbit does specify a sampling rate in the spec. At least on this website tequipment. Also Rohde & Schwarz HMO724 or HMO1024. The R&S ones say "MSO (Mixed Signal Opt. HO3508) with 8 Logic Channels." I guess that means its an option? Not included?

[cvriv]

I actually want to get the DS4024. 200mhz, 4 channels, and 4GSa/s sample rate. Beautiful. It's pretty badass. I sent tequipment.net an email about making a purchase and if they have any deals for customers that spend over a certain amount. I know im not going to spend as much as some people or even as much as what some single pieces of equipment go for, but i thought it couldnt hurt to ask.

Unless you have a moral objection to hacking, that is a bad choice because the DS4014 can be software hacked to 600 MHz, just like the DS4024. I own an MSO4014, I have nothing bad to say about it yet, but I've only owned it for a month. I got a really really good deal on mine, if it wasn't for that I wouldn't have bought it. If you can afford it look into the Tektronix MDO3014, this scope can be hacked to 500 MHz. I don't recommend Keysight or LeCroy because nobody knows how to hack them yet.

The DS4000 is a good oscilloscope if you get a good deal. One additional detail: when searching around, keep in mind that an extensive thread about the DS4000 lists several bugs that were already fixed.

I found thread and it turned me off from buying the scope. Let me ask you, how is it that the Rigol scopes have 12 and 14Mpts mem depth and the Agilents only have like 100kpts per channel?? I saw. Siglent with 28Mpts! Whats going on with that? Also, some scopes say 2Gs/s total and it splits per channel. The more channels you use at once, the more its split, fine. Some say 1Gs/s each channel. Thats seems better, right? It says per channel, im assuming the total is 1Gs/s but each channel is 1Gs/s. Im checking out the Agilent MSOX2012A, butbit does specify a sampling rate in the spec. At least on this website tequipment. Also Rohde & Schwarz HMO724 or HMO1024. The R&S ones say "MSO (Mixed Signal Opt. HO3508) with 8 Logic Channels." I guess that means its an option? Not included?

[cvriv]

I actually want to get the DS4024. 200mhz, 4 channels, and 4GSa/s sample rate. Beautiful. It's pretty badass. I sent tequipment.net an email about making a purchase and if they have any deals for customers that spend over a certain amount. I know im not going to spend as much as some people or even as much as what some single pieces of equipment go for, but i thought it couldnt hurt to ask.

Unless you have a moral objection to hacking, that is a bad choice because the DS4014 can be software hacked to 600 MHz, just like the DS4024. I own an MSO4014, I have nothing bad to say about it yet, but I've only owned it for a month. I got a really really good deal on mine, if it wasn't for that I wouldn't have bought it. If you can afford it look into the Tektronix MDO3014, this scope can be hacked to 500 MHz. I don't recommend Keysight or LeCroy because nobody knows how to hack them yet.

The DS4000 is a good oscilloscope if you get a good deal. One additional detail: when searching around, keep in mind that an extensive thread about the DS4000 lists several bugs that were already fixed.

I found that thread and it turned me off from buying that scope. Let me ask you, how is it that the Rigol scopes have 12 and 14Mpts mem depth and the Agilents only have like 100kpts per channel?? I saw. Siglent with 28Mpts! Whats going on with that? Also, some scopes say 2Gs/s total and it splits per channel. The more channels you use at once, the more its split, fine. Some say 1Gs/s each channel. Thats seems better, right? It says per channel, im assuming the total is 1Gs/s but each channel is 1Gs/s. Im checking out the Agilent MSOX2012A, butbit does specify a sampling rate in the spec. At least on this website tequipment. Also Rohde & Schwarz HMO724 or HMO1024. The R&S ones say "MSO (Mixed Signal Opt. HO3508) with 8 Logic Channels." I guess that means its an option? Not included?

[AndyC_772]

The Agilent scopes are based on an in-house ASIC, which doesn't support external memory. One of the most obvious differences between a 2000X scope and a 3000X is the memory depth.

You can't zoom in very far on a 2000X, though once you've set the trigger correctly, that's not nearly as big a problem as many people would have you believe. Until a few years ago I was regularly using a scope with no real zoom capability at all, and it really wasn't an issue.

[nbritton]

I actually want to get the DS4024. 200mhz, 4 channels, and 4GSa/s sample rate. Beautiful. It's pretty badass. I sent tequipment.net an email about making a purchase and if they have any deals for customers that spend over a certain amount. I know im not going to spend as much as some people or even as much as what some single pieces of equipment go for, but i thought it couldnt hurt to ask.

Unless you have a moral objection to hacking, that is a bad choice because the DS4014 can be software hacked to 600 MHz, just like the DS4024. I own an MSO4014, I have nothing bad to say about it yet, but I've only owned it for a month. I got a really really good deal on mine, if it wasn't for that I wouldn't have bought it. If you can afford it look into the Tektronix MDO3014, this scope can be hacked to 500 MHz. I don't recommend Keysight or LeCroy because nobody knows how to hack them yet.

The DS4000 is a good oscilloscope if you get a good deal. One additional detail: when searching around, keep in mind that an extensive thread about the DS4000 lists several bugs that were already fixed.

I found that thread and it turned me off from buying that scope. Let me ask you, how is it that the Rigol scopes have 12 and 14Mpts mem depth and the Agilents only have like 100kpts per channel?? I saw. Siglent with 28Mpts! Whats going on with that? Also, some scopes say 2Gs/s total and it splits per channel. The more channels you use at once, the more its split, fine. Some say 1Gs/s each channel. Thats seems better, right? It says per channel, im assuming the total is 1Gs/s but each channel is 1Gs/s. Im checking out the Agilent MSOX2012A, butbit does specify a sampling rate in the spec. At least on this website tequipment. Also Rohde & Schwarz HMO724 or HMO1024. The R&S ones say "MSO (Mixed Signal Opt. HO3508) with 8 Logic Channels." I guess that means its an option? Not included?

The Rigol 4000 series has 140 Mpts and true segmented memory, using the segmented memory is how you should do triggered decoding on this scope. On the 4000 series the sample rate is 4 GSa/s if using channels 1 and 3 or 2 and 4, however, if you use channels 1 and 2 and/or 3 and 4 together then the sample rate halves to 2 GSa/s. On the Rigol DS1054Z, the 1 GSa/s quoted is only when using one channel; the sample rate halves to 500 MSa/s if you use two channels and halves again to 250 MSa/s if you use four channels. If you know about Nyquist then you will know that the absolute minimum sampling rate needed to measure a signal is twice the frequency, however, in practice this is usually not enough to faithfully reproduce a signal, and in reality the bare minimum is closer to five times the frequency. This means that a 250 MSa/s sample rate is only enough to faithfully reproduce a 50 MHz signal. Whereas the 4 GSa/s can faithfully reproduce an 800 MHz signal. Aliasing is what happens if you don't have enough sample rate and this can cause havoc with your measurements. Also remember that for square waves you need to be able to capture at least the 7th harmonic, so for a 100 MHz square wave you would want a 700 MHz bandwidth scope if your goal is to faithfully reproduce the signal on the screen.

http://www.ni.com/white-paper/10669/en/

[NilByMouth]

I definitely recommend getting an analogue scope with similar bandwidth as well. Sometimes it will help give a clearer picture of what's happening than a DSO.