Siglent SDS804/814X HD or Rigol HDO914S for Mechatronics student

[Jack359]

Hello,

I'm about to buy my first serious digital oscilloscope and my budget is around 600 USD.
Till now I was using mostly my fathers old analog one for hobby projects.

Im situated in Europe and first was between  Siglent SDS804X HD and Rigol HDO804.  When looking at the prices I saw that from China I can get Rigol HDO914S for a bit more than Siglent SDS804X HD in Europe or the same price as SDS814X HD.

Which one would be the most complete package? I will probably not use most of it anyways at first but would like to future proof myself.
I'm starting my Bachelor in Mechatronics so I would like to have a nice private oscilloscope.

I have found only comparison threads between SDS804X HD and HDO804 and from which I can see that SDS804X HD is superior but how about compared to HDO914S?

Thanks.

[Grandchuck]

Be sure to buy from a vendor that will take care of any problems that might arise.  I lean toward Siglent.
Good luck with your studies.

[KungFuJosh]

I hate Rigol, but if you search for the HDO900 series on this site, you'll see that even Rigol people don't like the 900 series.

There's nothing better in that price range than the SDS800X HD series.

[eTobey]

You should not spent hundrets of dollars (or your currency) for something that you have in general no glue about. Work out your preferences with a used digital scope before. Also you most likely need other equipment too, so save your money. In the meantime, there might be a better model, or the prices would have come down.

The Siglent might have a lot of features, but it also has a lot of issues (people here dont like the b-word). Just for example, the grid does not always align with the numbers, so you will quickly get confused about your levels. And working on a project, this would be inacceptable (at least for me).

The Rigol might not be as good as the Siglent, but it has features, that you have to consider.

[hansibull]

I hate Rigol, but if you search for the HDO900 series on this site, you'll see that even Rigol people don't like the 900 series.

There's nothing better in that price range than the SDS800X HD series.

I don't own a Rigol scope (I have a Siglent SDS1000X HD), but why do users "hate" the 900 series? Isn't logic analyzer capabilities nice to have? It certainly can't be worse than the 800?

[eTobey]

I read that is wors than the 800 (hangs, bugs and more).

BTW. If you need proper timestamps on the files in the scope, dont buy the siglent. It has time, but its unreliable, and it does not work at all without internet connection. 

[csuhi17]

Only from a local seller, with whom you will be able to enforce the warranty if necessary.
  In the case of Chinese purchases, you would have a difficult time. 

Rigol issues updates more slowly, and in the latest update there is a bug that prevents the scope app from starting and the device becomes unusable for the time being.  We hope it will be resolved soon.

[ebastler]

I don't own a Rigol scope (I have a Siglent SDS1000X HD), but why do users "hate" the 900 series? Isn't logic analyzer capabilities nice to have? It certainly can't be worse than the 800?

The key design flaw of the DHO900 series is that using its digital inputs cuts the analog sampling rate in half. (And that sampling rate is already low: 1.25 GSa/s in total are obviously not enough to support the advertised 250 MHz bandwidth on 4 channels.) The DHO900 series is the only scope I am aware of which compromises the sampling rate in that way; all others seem to sample their digital channels independently.

If you want to compare the Siglent SDS800X HD family vs. the Rigol DHO800/900, I would say that the Rigol is more beginner-friendly because of its UI. It typically offers all relevant settings in a large dialog box, where Siglent often distributes them over multiple side-panel menus. Conversely, the Siglent offers more advanced functionality, especially for signal analysis -- its firmware is the same as in the larger scopes, with only a few features removed for technical or market segmentation reasons.

Since the OP specifically states that he is looking for a "serious" oscilloscope, I would recommend the Siglent SDS800X HD series.

[NE666]

from China I can get Rigol HDO914S for a bit more than Siglent SDS804X HD in Europe or the same price as SDS814X HD.

By my estimation (UK reseller pricing), that's around 120 to 150 USD premium for the 914S, over the DHO804 from europe?

If so, unless you attach significant value to gaining experience with (basic) mixed signal capabilities and/or have very limited bench space and absolutely must have a 3-in-1 instrument, I don't think that's really as good value as it seems. You will still need the logic analyser cable to use that feature (250+ USD from Rigol, clones available) and the single channel ARB is very basic in its features and spec.

If Rigol is your choice, I'd suggest buying the 804 from a regional reseller with some level of after-sales service and support. Spend 20 USD on a cheap USB LA and put the rest of the saving towards a much more flexible low-end ARB generator from either Siglent or Rigol when/if you find you need it.

[KungFuJosh]

You should not spent hundrets of dollars (or your currency) for something that you have in general no glue about. Work out your preferences with a used digital scope before. Also you most likely need other equipment too, so save your money. In the meantime, there might be a better model, or the prices would have come down.

The Siglent might have a lot of features, but it also has a lot of issues (people here dont like the b-word). Just for example, the grid does not always align with the numbers, so you will quickly get confused about your levels. And working on a project, this would be inacceptable (at least for me).

The Rigol might not be as good as the Siglent, but it has features, that you have to consider.

Your first sentence is quite ironic. 😉 Most of the issues you have reported are PEBKAC errors. That's not the scope's fault. If a device doesn't do something you want it to do, the way you want it to do it, despite not being advertised to do that thing in that way, does not make it a bug.

If you want a scope with an RTC, you should buy a scope with an RTC.

More importantly, for the actual bugs, Siglent is very good about updates to correct them. Rigol is famously terrible about this.

[Fungus]

I have found only comparison threads between SDS804X HD and HDO804 and from which I can see that SDS804X HD is superior but how about compared to HDO914S?

I wouldn't get the HDO900 series, it has no real advantages over the HDO800. If you can get a cheap HDO804 then go for that instead. It can easily be persuaded to think it's a DHO924.

For Mechatronics you could also look around for a deal on a Rigol MSO5074.

[ebastler]

Most of the issues you have reported are PEBKAC errors. That's not the scope's fault. If a device doesn't do something you want it to do, the way you want it to do it, despite not being advertised to do that thing in that way, does not make it a bug.

If you want a scope with an RTC, you should buy a scope with an RTC.

More importantly, for the actual bugs, Siglent is very good about updates to correct them. Rigol is famously terrible about this.

To be fair, eTobey has found a significant number of actual bugs -- more than anyone else on the forum, and more than I had expected to be present in the scope. But I agree that Siglent has fixed a large share of them quite promptly, and with an active presence here in the forum to get clarity on some of them. Certainly better than Rigol in that respect.

And regarding a real-time clock, neither the Rigol DHO800/900 nor the Siglent SDS800X HD have a battery-buffered clock. Both rely on getting the current time from an NTP server upon boot, and neither of them claims otherwise in the datasheet. NTP time works reliably for most users; sporadic problems are probably due to choosing an unreliable external NTP server or using the built-in (unsupported) NTP server on a Windows computer.

[Fungus]

I don't own a Rigol scope (I have a Siglent SDS1000X HD), but why do users "hate" the 900 series? Isn't logic analyzer capabilities nice to have? It certainly can't be worse than the 800?

Yeah, but the probes are very expensive (300 bucks) and bandwidth is limited.

You can analyze logic just fine with the analog inputs, so long as you don't need more than 4 channels.

Pretty much all comms is serial these days anyway (SPI, I2C, etc.) so you don't need many lines.

[2N3055]

Most of the issues you have reported are PEBKAC errors. That's not the scope's fault. If a device doesn't do something you want it to do, the way you want it to do it, despite not being advertised to do that thing in that way, does not make it a bug.

If you want a scope with an RTC, you should buy a scope with an RTC.

More importantly, for the actual bugs, Siglent is very good about updates to correct them. Rigol is famously terrible about this.

To be fair, eTobey has found a significant number of actual bugs -- more than anyone else on the forum, and more than I had expected to be present in the scope. But I agree that Siglent has fixed a large share of them quite promptly, and with an active presence here in the forum to get clarity on some of them. Certainly better than Rigol in that respect.

And regarding a real-time clock, neither the Rigol DHO800/900 nor the Siglent SDS800X HD have a battery-buffered clock. Both rely on getting the current time from an NTP server upon boot, and neither of them claims otherwise in the datasheet. NTP time works reliably for most users; sporadic problems are probably due to choosing an unreliable external NTP server or using the built-in (unsupported) NTP server on a Windows computer.

eTobey statements are incorrect. NTP was actually enhanced in last FW. It will wait for network and retry.
I know it was done. I asked for it.
As you said, it has no realtime clock and nobody ever said it has.
NTP works very well now. You can plug in network later after the boot and it will acquire time.

[Fungus]

I think the Rigol's easier to use with WiFi. Just a $7 USB dongle.

[KungFuJosh]

You can use a $20 mini wifi bridge with either. 😉

[ebastler]

I think the Rigol's easier to use with WiFi. Just a $7 USB dongle.

Make that $14, since most people need to purchase two until they get the right version with the only chip that is supported by the scope.

Seriously though -- having the ability to configure the WiFi dongle directly from the Rigol scope is nice. And having WiFi without any cables dangling around behind the scope his nice as well.

Although as soon as you add a signal generator to your bench, you may want a small network switch to connect your instruments to anyway. Hint: Siglent scopes can talk to external Siglent signal generators to do automated Bode plots!  

[nidlaX]

Didn't the SDS1000X-E have USB WiFi adapter support built-in? Seems like it should be trivial for them to add it back if it's not present anymore.

[Fungus]

I think the Rigol's easier to use with WiFi. Just a $7 USB dongle.

Make that $14, since most people need to purchase two until they get the right version with the only chip that is supported by the scope.

I just typed the chip number into Amazon and got it right first time. 

[tautech]

Didn't the SDS1000X-E have USB WiFi adapter support built-in?

Yup but as an optional feature but with latest firmware, now a standard feature.

Seems like it should be trivial for them to add it back if it's not present anymore.

One might think so however 800X HD uses a different OS/UI therefore it would require some rework to implement it in the latest models.

But fear not, we have been pushing nagging hard for WiFi support in SDS800X HD for a while.
 

[ebastler]

I just typed the chip number into Amazon and got it right first time. 

I actually needed a second attempt myself before I got the right one for my DHO1000. In my defense that was early days, before it became clear that getting an RTL8188 was not sufficient but that the letter suffix also mattered...

But I was mainly kidding; the information available today is clear enough. Nevertheless we just had a new user in the other DHO800 thread who not only wasted a few dollars, but more importantly a few hours trying with a wrong RTL8188 version.

[awakephd]

Spend 20 USD on a cheap USB LA and put the rest of the saving towards a much more flexible low-end ARB generator from either Siglent or Rigol when/if you find you need it.

Hint: Siglent scopes can talk to external Siglent signal generators to do automated Bode plots!  

And in fact, one can use even a very inexpensive signal generator with the Siglent scopes: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-and-sds1204x-e-bode-plot-with-non-siglent-awg/

[eTobey]

eTobey statements are incorrect. NTP was actually enhanced in last FW. It will wait for network and retry.
I know it was done. I asked for it.

So are you a beta tester then? Then it all makes sense to me. Your (and others) utterly stupid behaviour of denying issues that exist, that you have missed, and some that where even OBVIOUS. And then rather indicate, that i have altered a screenshot. 

Seems like that NTP fix needs a fix.

[ebastler]

Seems like that NTP fix needs a fix.

No, I don't think it does. To my knowledge, the only problems observed with the most recent firmware could be fixed by changing to a different (reliable) NTP server. That includes moving away from the built-in NTP server of a Windows desktop computer, which to my knowledge is an unsupported Windows feature.

[2N3055]

eTobey statements are incorrect. NTP was actually enhanced in last FW. It will wait for network and retry.
I know it was done. I asked for it.

So are you a beta tester then? Then it all makes sense to me. Your (and others) utterly stupid behaviour of denying issues that exist, that you have missed, and some that where even OBVIOUS. And then rather indicate, that i have altered a screenshot. 

Seems like that NTP fix needs a fix.

All your problems are self made.
Because of your warm, kind and understanding personality that compels you to insult people at every opportunity.

This place is not Siglent support.
This is public forum, where people discuss electronics related topics.
Whatever you write here is simply some people discussing.
You can write your diatribes 'till the end of days, but nothing written here is of any relevance to support of your product.

Some people here are lucky to have equipment others don't have and a willing to test and help the others in their own free time.
Some even have some insider knowledge that allows them to see "behind the horizon" and give better advice.
Nor, me nor Performa01 nor Tatuech are employed by Siglent to be support.
And certainly nobody here are you servants, indentured to fulfill you whims and rude orders you bark at people.

Yes I reported that bug to Siglent support and asked for solution. As a public service. To help people here that asked for it.
Which is something I didn't have to do.
There are official manufacturer support channels and you can simply send them support request directly on your own.

If I do something, it is something I did of my own will and my own free time.
If I do it, that is also going to be on my rules. If I need additional data, or better explanation. My work, my time, my rules. My way or highway.
I am not going to enable someone being lazy, rude, obnoxious and do work for them while at the same time I get insulted all the time.

Have a nice day.