Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's

[awakephd]

Question related to the FG capability: is the SAG1021I the only FG that the SDS800X can control? Or can it also work with other FGs?

[tautech]

Question related to the FG capability: is the SAG1021I the only FG that the SDS800X can control? Or can it also work with other FGs?

For direct manual control, yes.

However for the Bode plot/FRA mode, all/any of Siglents FG/AWG's can be used via LAN or USB connection where the DSO takes control of the AWG to provide the FRA stimulus sweeps.

[awakephd]

Can the scope control other brands of FGs as well? (Is there some sort of standard interface?)

As you no doubt can tell, I am just starting to learn about function generators and Bode plots ...

[tautech]

Can the scope control other brands of FGs as well? (Is there some sort of standard interface?)

As you no doubt can tell, I am just starting to learn about function generators and Bode plots ...

No, why would Siglent even consider supporting another brand of competing product ?

However there are workarounds and a thread here about this.
Someone might point you to it although not sure if it works with 800X HD to another brand connectivity.

[EvgenyG]

No, why would Siglent even consider supporting another brand of competing product ?

They should not. Just publish the specs/commands, which is already availabe. This is where open source community steps in and implements an adapter mimicking SDG and translating commands to a non-Siglent AWG.

[tautech]

No, why would Siglent even consider supporting another brand of competing product ?

They should not. Just publish the specs/commands, which is already availabe. This is where open source community steps in and implements an adapter mimicking SDG and translating commands to a non-Siglent AWG.

Been done already.

Test your Search skill. 

[EvgenyG]

Been done already. Test your Search skill. 

Or memory. Now I remember, the someone made it work with FY 6900 AWG. Means can be done for any other, too.

[pdenisowski]

Just publish the specs/commands, which is already availabe. This is where open source community steps in and implements an adapter mimicking SDG and translating commands to a non-Siglent AWG.

Or have the non-Siglent AWG be able to emulate a Siglent (i.e. respond to SCPI commands the same way that a Siglent would). 

This is done all the time in the T&M industry - we have lots of instruments that can emulate competitors' instruments,  We even advertise it

https://scdn.rohde-schwarz.com/ur/pws/dl_downloads/dl_common_library/dl_brochures_and_datasheets/pdf_1/LegacyPro_bro_en_5214-5603-62_v0400.pdf

[But no Siglent support - sorry!]

[techneut]

 

[bateau020]

Been done already. Test your Search skill. 

Or memory. Now I remember, the someone made it work with FY 6900 AWG. Means can be done for any other, too.

See https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-and-sds1204x-e-bode-plot-with-non-siglent-awg/msg5479096/#msg5479096
for the sds800 version

[Conrad Hoffman]

FWIW we just bought an SDS824X HD at work, figuring it was a cheap way to improve the resolution of some power measurements. I was very interested because I'm considering dumping all my boat anchors at home and replacing them with one of the 800 series. Because we store a lot of files/data I was dumbfounded that it doesn't have an RTC and loses the time and date every time you power up. Not interested in doing a LAN connection to solve that- it should have a battery or cap backed RTC like every other thing in the modern world. Other than that, my complaints are minimal- I tied a small rubber-tipped stylus to the thing with a piece of string because my fingers are way too fat to use the touch screen. It's also odd that they ship it with the earliest firmware revision and it's up to the user to bring it up to date. In terms of resolution and memory, it puts all our old Tek scopes to shame, with up to 10 million points of 12-bit resolution. I haven't explored this in depth but with the old scopes you often had the waveform at about half the screen height and really got 7 bits of resolution at best. The Siglent has a fine vertical step adjust (push the button) so I assume you can take far better advantage of the full 12 bits.

[awakephd]

Can the scope control other brands of FGs as well? (Is there some sort of standard interface?)

As you no doubt can tell, I am just starting to learn about function generators and Bode plots ...

No, why would Siglent even consider supporting another brand of competing product ?

However there are workarounds and a thread here about this.
Someone might point you to it although not sure if it works with 800X HD to another brand connectivity.

Oh, did not mean to suggest that Siglent or anyone else should support another company's products per se. My question had more to do with the latter part of what I asked - is there a standard interface that all scopes use, which would imply the ability to control other brands of FG. Clearly the answer is, "no"!

[electr_peter]

In terms of resolution and memory, it puts all our old Tek scopes to shame, with up to 10 million points of 12-bit resolution.

Full memory is 100M on SDS824X HD

I haven't explored this in depth but with the old scopes you often had the waveform at about half the screen height and really got 7 bits of resolution at best. The Siglent has a fine vertical step adjust (push the button) so I assume you can take far better advantage of the full 12 bits.

Fine resolution works well, it is more for filling the screen fully and using full ADC range. 12 bits allows to zoom in if needed.

[TomKatt]

Because we store a lot of files/data I was dumbfounded that it doesn't have an RTC and loses the time and date every time you power up. Not interested in doing a LAN connection to solve that- it should have a battery or cap backed RTC like every other thing in the modern world. Other than that, my complaints are minimal- I tied a small rubber-tipped stylus to the thing with a piece of string because my fingers are way too fat to use the touch screen.

Yes, the omission of a battery backed RTC is glaring - it only costs a few cents, so I have to think that Siglent is trying to prevent the lower tier products eating into higher markets.  Still, it’s a little shameful.  At least you have the lan option if it’s something you absolutely must have.

As for the touchscreen, you do get used to it and if you have to there’s the mouse option as well.  I personally prefer it to the touchy encoder selection in the SDS1100X series.

In the end, it’s amazing what “entry level” offers these days.

[KungFuJosh]

Yes, the omission of a battery backed RTC is glaring - it only costs a few cents, so I have to think that Siglent is trying to prevent the lower tier products eating into higher markets.  Still, it’s a little shameful.  At least you have the lan option if it’s something you absolutely must have.

I too am disappointed that they didn't include an RTC. That said...

I disagree. Nothing is only a couple cents. You have to add design time, all parts, and firmware support. The cost of the batteries is more than a few cents, as is the holder, etc.

Their goal with this series was to be cost effective. Personally, I think they could have charged another $20 per unit and have included an RTC, but I don't make decisions for them.

[tautech]

FWIW we just bought an SDS824X HD at work, figuring it was a cheap way to improve the resolution of some power measurements. I was very interested because I'm considering dumping all my boat anchors at home and replacing them with one of the 800 series. Because we store a lot of files/data I was dumbfounded that it doesn't have an RTC and loses the time and date every time you power up. Not interested in doing a LAN connection to solve that- it should have a battery or cap backed RTC like every other thing in the modern world.

Strongly recommend you reconsider providing some LAN connection, maybe WiFi would be the most convenient if this scope gets moved around some.
Explicitly for connection to remote file storage where you can specify the drive/folder with the SMB File Share feature.
See P227
https://int.siglent.com/u_file/download/24_02_20/SDS800X_HD_UserManual_EN01A.pdf

We have hoped Siglent might the enable the simple WiFi USB dongle as used in 4ch X-E models that also provided for NTP time and we still have this request active for SDS800X HD models.

Until such time USB dongle WiFi is implemented a LAN connection to a USB powered WiFi AP configured in Bridge mode is our only current solution and under $50 and has the advantage it works with any LAN capable device without need of SW to make it functional.
https://www.tp-link.com/us/home-networking/wifi-router/tl-wr802n/

[Conrad Hoffman]

The LAN makes sense but then I have to deal with the off-site IT people. I don't think anything we've ever connected to the LAN that wasn't a computer remained connected, though maybe that's changed with some new 3-D printers we got.

[TomKatt]

If you go the usb access point route, that’s about the same as just asking for generic internet access.  NTP shouldn’t require any special firewall permission.

[tautech]

The LAN makes sense but then I have to deal with the off-site IT people. I don't think anything we've ever connected to the LAN that wasn't a computer remained connected, though maybe that's changed with some new 3-D printers we got.

With a Local Area Network WiFi access point and a WiFi connection you can have all the fruits these little scopes offer, which are many and varied, so much so nothing at this price point can touch them.

[pdenisowski]

is there a standard interface that all scopes use, which would imply the ability to control other brands of FG. Clearly the answer is, "no"!

Well, there is a standard interface for T&M instruments: SCPI (i.e. standard commands for programmable instruments).  The problem is that SCPI is a very loose "standard" that's often implemented (ever so slightly) differently by different vendors.

The solution is to control both the Siglent and the non-Siglent function generator using a SCPI program running on a PC that is connected to both.  This requires no change to either instrument and can be done with minimal effort, assuming that the two instruments have sufficiently "configurable" SCPI implementations.

[2N3055]

is there a standard interface that all scopes use, which would imply the ability to control other brands of FG. Clearly the answer is, "no"!

Well, there is a standard interface for T&M instruments: SCPI (i.e. standard commands for programmable instruments).  The problem is that SCPI is a very loose "standard" that's often implemented (ever so slightly) differently by different vendors.

The solution is to control both the Siglent and the non-Siglent function generator using a SCPI program running on a PC that is connected to both.  This requires no change to either instrument and can be done with minimal effort, assuming that the two instruments have sufficiently "configurable" SCPI implementations.

If you don't have AWG already, simplest solution is to just buy any Siglent AWG.
They all work and using it is completely seamless: You plug in USB and you click Go. Or over LAN you just type in IP address and Go.
It works really good.

[watchmaker]

Thank you all for this thread.  I sold my 1204xe for the same price I got the 804x from Saelig.  I just upgraded the Bandwidth to 200, upgraded to fW and added the PA license.  I did the PA through the scopes UI, but I cannot figure out how to add the AWG and MSO licenses. 

I have tried on scpi:  lcisl awg 4F23xxxxxxxx  and the same for MSO but I see nothing on my scope that indicates these took. What SCPI command should I be using and what is the query that I can sue to verify.

I did spend 10 minutes with the Siglent programmer manual and about 30 minutes looking on the internet.

THANKS!

[tautech]

Thank you all for this thread.  I sold my 1204xe for the same price I got the 804x from Saelig.  I just upgraded the Bandwidth to 200, upgraded to fW and added the PA license.  I did the PA through the scopes UI, but I cannot figure out how to add the AWG and MSO licenses. 

The latest FW removes/makes FG/AWG and MSO licenses permanent and now invisible.

The HW for these options has been increased in price though but now can be used on any model or model series that supports them.

[watchmaker]

THANK YOU!!!

This thing looks to be incredible.  I already like the increased real estate on the screen and the option to use a mouse.

I am likely too ignorant to us iteven half its potential, but the UI is very intuitive for me.

FWIW, the "controversy" about the clock is a non issue for me.  It syncs to USNO on each startup.

Regards,

Dewey

[tautech]

THANK YOU!!!

This thing looks to be incredible.  I already like the increased real estate on the screen and the option to use a mouse.

I am likely too ignorant to us iteven half its potential, but the UI is very intuitive for me.

FWIW, the "controversy" about the clock is a non issue for me.  It syncs to USNO on each startup.

A feature that is easy to overlook, tap or click any alpha or numeric field input box to get the qwerty or numeric virtual keypad to pop up.

BTW, what is USNO ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Naval_Observatory ?