Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's

[2N3055]

You can copy signal settings to trigger for easy basic setup-

Then go to: Trigger : CAN setting: Condition

Could you explain this a bit more precise? What signal settings?

The manual is not so good about this topic.

In decode menu you have copy.

[gburdzin]

Dang, can't get a SDS804X-HD in Canada until early May.  One supplier (of the two official outlets) is offering me a price of $389USD if I pay today for a burger I get in May.  Do I trust them??  Not my usual source so a little leery.

A $50 saving is a $50 saving......unless they have their pricing wrong.
Ask for this price in writing for a May ETA and delivery costs.

Will nearly be May before we get any of the new HD scopes. 

Yeah $50 is $50 (more so in CAD) and they are a listed vendor.  Just that RCC (my usual vendor) have been an excellent "partner".  When I had a problem with my DC load they did a cross ship for me.  That's above and beyond.  And when I had an off-set issue with my SDS1104X-E they offered to forward it the Siglent NA for me saving me a ton on shipping.

I think I'll just wait and deal with RCC.  They have been great so far and seem a little bit less desperate.

Electro-meters is legit, I have ordered from them in the past and recently ordered the SDS2104X HD from them.  They only recently became a Siglent dealer, so my guess is that they are being slightly more aggressive with the exchange rate from $US to $CDN.  Are you sure you would have to actually pay in advance, because in my case, although they have my order and credit card information, they do not charge the card until the order ships.

[eTobey]

I dont understand what you mean. It would help, if you would use some more words.
I think you did not understand what i meant, neither.

[Martin72]

It would help, if you would use some more words.

So you mean something like this:

I cant filter the for a range of CAN IDs for the trigger... No way!

Its the trigger

You realize that yourself, don't you?

[2N3055]

I cant filter the for a range of CAN IDs for the trigger...

I find this pretty clear: In the CAN protocol trigger condition, you can either define a single ID to cause a trigger, or you can select all (any) IDs. You cannot define a range of message IDs which cause a trigger -- which may be limiting, depending on your system under test.

What other information were you looking for, Martin?

I don't think it is possible to circumvent this by copying CAN decoder settings to the trigger settings.

What you call pretty clear I call your interpretation.

Let him actually take effort to write 5 coherent sentences formed as a formed question.

What exactly other scope can do and in what form? What is exactly function that sems to be missiing?

[eTobey]

What exactly other scope can do and in what form? What is exactly function that sems to be missiing?

It seems, that you havent done much with CAN bus. There are many IDs, that fly through the bus. If you want to watch just 2, you cant do this! That bad rigol could filter this as i would expect it in such a price range, but the rest after it is terrrible!

[Omega Glory]

Does anybody know what the FFT update rate is like? Especially compared to the SDS1104X-E?

The SDS800X HD is smoother than the SDS1104X-E.
What is the purpose of this question? If you are just deciding which product to choose, you are definitely choosing the SDS800X HD.
If you focus on this performance, my opinion is that functional correctness and stability are much more important than speed.

Well if I'm measuring a signal whose spectral content changes over time, and I want to see how, then the faster the FFT updates, the better.

[electronics hobbyist]

Does anybody know what the FFT update rate is like? Especially compared to the SDS1104X-E?

The SDS800X HD is smoother than the SDS1104X-E.
What is the purpose of this question? If you are just deciding which product to choose, you are definitely choosing the SDS800X HD.
If you focus on this performance, my opinion is that functional correctness and stability are much more important than speed.

Well if I'm measuring a signal whose spectral content changes over time, and I want to see how, then the faster the FFT updates, the better.

SDS800X HD and SDS1104X-E are both software based FFT, and the speed is not very fast. The FFT speed depends on the number of processing points.

Can you please provide specific test signals and what kind of results you would like to see.

[Omega Glory]

Well the FFT computation speed probably isn't data dependent, so the specific signal doesn't matter, too much, but it would be neat to see visually what the update rate is at 1M points. (When I get one, I'll probably make a video about it and post it here).

As an aside, I think the Rigol DHO800 also has a software based FFT, but it's significantly faster than that of the SDS1104X-E, as can be seen in one of Dave's videos.

[Omega Glory]

Ahh, well recently I had a sporadic tone superimposed on some audio being produced by a circuit I was working on, and I wanted to determine at what frequency it was at. I didn't have a way to setup the scope to trigger a single shot capture the waveform when the tone appeared, and it often appeared and disappeared too quickly for me to manually stop the capture so that I could compute the FFT. So if I had a fast free running FFT, I could just monitor the spectrum and watch for where the tone spike appeared. There are probably much better ways of solving this problem, but honestly, if I had to choose between an FFT update rate of 1Hz vs 10Hz, I'd always choose the 10Hz update rate. Maybe not so much of a "need" but more of a "want".

[KungFuJosh]

Ahh, well recently I had a sporadic tone superimposed on some audio being produced by a circuit I was working on, and I wanted to determine at what frequency it was at. I didn't have a way to setup the scope to trigger a single shot capture the waveform when the tone appeared, and it often appeared and disappeared too quickly for me to manually stop the capture so that I could compute the FFT. So if I had a fast free running FFT, I could just monitor the spectrum and watch for where the tone spike appeared. There are probably much better ways of solving this problem, but honestly, if I had to choose between an FFT update rate of 1Hz vs 10Hz, I'd always choose the 10Hz update rate. Maybe not so much of a "need" but more of a "want".

You can use History to go back and view it, even if you missed stopping it on time. That might help you figure out a trigger.

[electronics hobbyist]

Well the FFT computation speed probably isn't data dependent, so the specific signal doesn't matter, too much, but it would be neat to see visually what the update rate is at 1M points. (When I get one, I'll probably make a video about it and post it here).

As an aside, I think the Rigol DHO800 also has a software based FFT, but it's significantly faster than that of the SDS1104X-E, as can be seen in one of Dave's videos.

I guess the question about "specific test signals and what kind of results you would like to see?" was more meant as "what signal are you looking at where eyeballing a fast-changing FFT is what you need as a readout?"

Your explanation is correct 

[2N3055]

What exactly other scope can do and in what form? What is exactly function that sems to be missiing?

It seems, that you havent done much with CAN bus. There are many IDs, that fly through the bus. If you want to watch just 2, you cant do this! That bad rigol could filter this as i would expect it in such a price range, but the rest after it is terrrible!

You are starting to be obnoxious.

I'm well aware how CAN works.

I have problem understanding what you want.

I have not got Rigol scope and have no intention to buy one to please you. I have no idea what exactly on that Rigol you are talking about.
As a side note, term filtering would be mostly used on already captured data to filter subset of results. Picoscope has that for instance.
In triggering we have masks that, when matched, generate triggers...
Are you talking about some kind of wildcards in trigger masks ?


If you want help, please explain in detail what exactly Rigol has ( explain how it works and what it does on that scope) and where it is and details how Rigol implemented that feature that you seem to like.

After you do that, we can see if somethin like that exists on Siglent.
If it doesn't and if it seems useful then we can make feature request to Siglent.
They listen to good input. but it has to be well explained.

[2N3055]

Ahh, well recently I had a sporadic tone superimposed on some audio being produced by a circuit I was working on, and I wanted to determine at what frequency it was at. I didn't have a way to setup the scope to trigger a single shot capture the waveform when the tone appeared, and it often appeared and disappeared too quickly for me to manually stop the capture so that I could compute the FFT. So if I had a fast free running FFT, I could just monitor the spectrum and watch for where the tone spike appeared. There are probably much better ways of solving this problem, but honestly, if I had to choose between an FFT update rate of 1Hz vs 10Hz, I'd always choose the 10Hz update rate. Maybe not so much of a "need" but more of a "want".

On SDS800 you can set FFT to peak hold mode. Then you wait, and even if it merely blinks once, it will stay on screen.
Then you simply walk away and return after some time.
It will wait for you, right there on the screen. No staring needed.
This is one example of what I mean when I say "let the scope do the work for you".

[Omega Glory]

Wow, that's a killer feature!

[eTobey]

They listen to good input. but it has to be well explained.

Let me try again...

I have a lot of IDs in the CAN bus. From those i only want to see (trigger on) ID 1776 - 1789. With the Rigol you could write a X, which served as a wildcard. In binary, decimal and hex. So you could not only filter ids, but also the data bytes!

I always wonder why some can create such a feature, but then forget (?) essential things. Try getting a frame that has that one wrong byte...

[eTobey]

Another thing i just found:
Signal goes crazy below 200mV/div.

[Martin72]

If you want help, please explain in detail what exactly Rigol has ( explain how it works and what it does on that scope) and where it is and details how Rigol implemented that feature that you seem to like.

The first point is that the Rigol 800s do not have CAN decoding.
The second point is that there is no filter whatsoever, it runs like the Siglent via the serial trigger, on what you want to trigger.
And this is also called the same for both, namely Trigger Condition(or "when"), while with the rigol it is obvious, with the siglent it can be set via a drop-down menu.
Perhaps that is the reason why it was asked, it has not yet been found.

[eTobey]

The first point is that the Rigol 800s do not have CAN decoding.

Are you talking about the DHO800?
If yes, why would you say so?

[2N3055]

They listen to good input. but it has to be well explained.

Let me try again...

I have a lot of IDs in the CAN bus. From those i only want to see (trigger on) ID 1776 - 1789. With the Rigol you could write a X, which served as a wildcard. In binary, decimal and hex. So you could not only filter ids, but also the data bytes!

I always wonder why some can create such a feature, but then forget (?) essential things. Try getting a frame that has that one wrong byte...

Aha, so you are talking about triggering, and having a trigger mask wildcards...

Thank you for explaining.

No, Siglent CAN trigger currently does not support that. Only specific packet ID or ID+DATA.
I has wildcards in SPI bit not in CAN.
I agree that would be great addition. I miss that too.

[Martin72]

The first point is that the Rigol 800s do not have CAN decoding.

Are you talking about the DHO800?
If yes, why would you say so?

Because the DHO800 series has no CAN decoding.
The 900 series has it . Edit: Completely wrong

[eTobey]

Because the DHO800 series has no CAN decoding.
The 900 series has it .

You may have to get off your horse, and take a closer look ... Why would you insist on something, that others say is different?

[Martin72]

Sorry...SORRY, my fault...
For whatever reason I thought the opposite, even though I had an 800.

[Performa01]

Quite obviously, there ia a request for wildcards in the equality condition for serial ID and/or Data triggers, like it is already implemented for SPI (see attachment).

Other serial protocols like UART have at least additional comparison operators, like < and >, while some more advanced protocols provide also conditions for inside/outside a specified range.

I've requested the wildcard for all serial protocols right now (medium priority).


With regard to overloading the scope input, I don't know why some folks always want to do this. No application engineer from any A-brand will ever approve such a practice, yet there will always be the one user out of a hundred, who will complain about signals going haywire after heavily overloading the DSO input.

Or does it have to do with Siglent DSOs being more prone to showing overload distortions, because they have a proper 2-attenuator frontend (where the input range is devided into three sub-ranges instead of just two, and the problem usually arises when an attenuator is de-activated, which happens at higher input signal levels for cheap single-attenuator designs).

For those interested in some details and proper techniques to view small details in large signals, here are two postings:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/msg5392730/#msg5392730

and 2nd section in this posting:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/msg5293744/#msg5293744

[Mortymore]

Sorry...SORRY, my fault...
For whatever reason I thought the opposite, even though I had an 800.

https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rigol-DHO804.html

If you check the datasheet and the manual available here, CAN decoding it's not mentioned.

Pag 188 in that manual is for "17.2 - Record Options"

This must be an outdated information then.