Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's

[tautech]

Not all ISP's permit/allow customer access to their router configuration to make settings changes.

I never recommend using ISP supplied routers. Personally, I also have my own modem.

Totally ISP dependant. Some require you to use their locked and preconfigured router.
Our current does however as a wireless high site repeater point to a few of his customers we get some benefits like full speed and access to modem passwords.....

[RAPo]

My DSO sometimes doesn't sync directly at startup (although there is a LAN connection)
However, if I go to the menu and press sync, it makes contact with the NTP server based on the specified settings.
What could be the culprit?

[gitm]

Just to close the loop on the PB470 probe bandwidth, I used my somewhat limited signal generator in the tinySA Ultra to sweep to 350MHz with the FFT in peak hold as noted by others in this thread.

The two screenshots attached are for the PB470 “70 Mhz” probe and the PVP2350 as a control. 



The tinySA maxium output level for the sweep was -23.5dBm (-36.61dBV or 41.8mVpp), which remained within +/- 0.75dBV out past 200MHz and finally reached -3dB at 338MHz (marker 7).  The peaking noticed in my earlier testing was there and spanned from ~70MHz to ~150MHz with the maximum at 108MHz/-36.02dBV (marker 3).

There were discontinuities in the trace at markers 4, 5 and 6, which I attribute to the tinySA’s signal generator.  The PVP2350 also exhibited these three discontinuities at approximately the same frequencies (see markers 2, 3 and 4 in the PVP2350 screenshot), hence my reason for blaming the tinySA.

There was less peaking with the PVP2350 but that came along with a lower -3dB found at 229.6MHz (near my first estimate of 225MHz) and hurting amplitude accuracy beyond 70MHz as compared to the PB470.

While I wasn’t sure the tinySA would be suitable for this “test”, I think I can now say that using PVP2350 probes in 10X on the SDS824X is not an upgrade.  However, the PVP2350 in 1X did have flat bandwidth out to a -3dB at 38MHz, so there’s that :-/ .

[Martin72]

We have often forgotten to shut down the (sds2104xplus) scopes, so far nothing bad has happened to them.

[mawyatt]

Here's a probe comparison setup with the SDS814 (expanded) using the SDG6022X (also expanded) Signal Source AWG sweeping from 1MHz to 400MHz with the local 50 ohm (cheap one) BNC termination, AWG set to 0dBm. The scope probes were measured with the direct BNC adapter on the tip, so no ground lead involved.

Mind this is a cheap 50 ohm termination, and haven't checked the amplitude stability of the AWG, so please these are only just good for comparisons only, not absolute results!!

PNG-4 is with a Siglent 814 supplied PP510 Probe (one that came with SDS814) F1 and with the Rigol PVP3150 (one that came with the DHO814) F4.

PNG-5 is with PP510 F1 and Siglent SP2030A F4.

PNG-7 is with PP510 F1 and Siglent PP215 F4.

Best,

[mawyatt]

haven't checked the amplitude stability of the AWG, so please these are only just good for comparisons only, not absolute results!!

To normalize out potential amplitude variations of the AWG, shouldn't it be possible to capture these as Bode plots -- with a reference from the SDG via direct BNC connection and the signal via the probe? Just curious; I have not gotten as far as Bode plots with my SDS814X HD yet...

The Bode plot is a Ratio of Output/Input but only covers 120MHz with these Siglent devices, so not much use (Edit for probe evaluation that is, quite useful otherwise!). However a good SA should provide a decent reference for the AWG to compare against. at least if the SA can be believed!!

Here's a quick (SA not properly warned up) plot of the AWG used for the probe comparisons. Used a high quality N to BNC cable.

Best,

[eTobey]

There were discontinuities in the trace at markers 4, 5 and 6, which I attribute to the tinySA’s signal generator. 

I had such discontinuities like at the seconds picture between number 3-4 today, when i captured random noise from the enviroment and my board.

[mawyatt]

The Bode plot is a Ratio of Output/Input but only covers 120MHz with these Siglent devices, so not much use. However a good SA should provide a decent reference for the AWG to compare against. at least if the SA can be believed!!

Here's a quick (SA not properly warned up) plot of the AWG used for the probe comparisons. Used a high quality N to BNC cable.

Thank you, I was not aware of the 120 MHz limit. But looking at the SA spectrum of the AWG, I guess there is no cause for conern and no dire need for normalization.

You are welcome, wish Siglent would "consider" opening the Bode BW based upon the available AWG Frequency limit. Also would be beneficial to have a "thru cal" in which the DUT is bypassed to help reduce cable/fixture/setup effects.

I'm sure they have reasons for not doing such, but could be quite useful in the hands of the many qualified folks here. As it is, they have created a very useful measurement capability, and we've encouraged folks to "give it a try".

Best

[gitm]

There were discontinuities in the trace at markers 4, 5 and 6, which I attribute to the tinySA’s signal generator. 

I had such discontinuities like at the seconds picture between number 3-4 today, when i captured random noise from the enviroment and my board.

Yes, noise in the environment when the signal is only ~42mVpp is a possibility.  But since this was a peak hold FFT, I can and did multiple runs of the sweep around those anomaly frequencies (center at anomaly frequency and span covering the edges with max points=450) to fill them in, but those three always remained. I don’t know enough about the internals of the tinySA Ultra to answer whether they truly originated there, but my suspicion is that they did. 

[eTobey]

• I find it a bit annoying that both dialogs automatically close (after the 10s timeout I have chosen for dialogs) -- even if I still have the multi-function knob active in the frame selection control. I open the dialog specifically to browse frames, and I typically need more than 10 seconds to do so. Is there a way to override the timeout for a particular dialog?
  

• When I keep the "History List" window open: Wouldn't it be nice if that list could be controlled with the multi-function knob? 
  

• Some mouse control is possible in the History List: You can scroll the list with the scroll wheel, but only if you move the mouse pointer over the scroll bar. (a) That's not how scroll wheels normally work; they should be active anywhere over the scrollable content, not just over the scroll bar. And (b) what's the point in scrolling the list if the frames in the display don't actually change?
  What I really want to do here is not just scroll the list, but move the blue highlight (the displayed frame) up or down. Is that possible via any "scroll" action, or do I have to click on the individual list items? (And then carefully move the mouse back to the scroll bar to do some scrolling, and back to the list area to do some more clicking?  )
  

I have made the same notes about this. And it does apply to other lists too!
It would also be nice, is the navigating buttons would move one, but when held, move continiusely. That is  something i am used to on pretty much every software/device. And that history list window should be adjustable in size!

[eTobey]

I have captures a few hundred of CAN frames with sequence. Is there a way to export the decoded frames list?

[Performa01]

Is there any difference between the Analyse/History and Analyse/Navigate/History Frame functions? Both seem to be offering the same navigation via the multi-function knob and the arrow buttons. Is this a redundancy "for historic reasons" (no pun intended), or am I overlooking something? 

There is no difference. And this is there most likely just for completeness: everything that can be navigated and might include a fair amount of distance/data is summarized there. At least it has been that way since the venerable SDS1104X-E from early 2018.

I find it a bit annoying that both dialogs automatically close (after the 10s timeout I have chosen for dialogs) -- even if I still have the multi-function knob active in the frame selection control. I open the dialog specifically to browse frames, and I typically need more than 10 seconds to do so. Is there a way to override the timeout for a particular dialog?

I was a bit unsure at first, as I personally never set a menu-timeout (only I myself decide when the menu should be visible or not), but even with that 10 s timeout, the menu only disappears when I play with the History list exclusively, i.e. never touch the menu itself.

So yes, any action on the History List window doesn’t reset the timeout on the History menu, and since the History List is a separate window, this would require some special treatment for the menu timeout.

It shouldn’t be a real usability problem though, as the list is there for viewing and the occasional frame selection (which doesn’t take 10 seconds), but not for browsing through the History anyway.

When I keep the "History List" window open: Wouldn't it be nice if that list could be controlled with the multi-function knob? 

Yes, it is nice, as this is one of several methods to browse through the list, together with the virtual navigation buttons in the menu and the physical navigation buttons on the front panel.

The universal control s well as the navigation buttons in the History menu will reset the menu timeout, the physical navigation buttons on the front panel as well as clicking around on the History List do not.

The History menu has these three big navigation buttons (Play back, Pause, Play forward) with the Single Step/Continuous switch above them – we just cannot overlook them, right? In case of “Continuous” you also get an “Interval Time”. In single step mode, you just touch or click the corresponding back- and forward-buttons and you get what you want. Or in continuous mode, hit the pause button at the right moment – this is easier with a longer interval time of course 😉

[Performa01]

You had me wondering for a moment -- I assume you refer to the situation where the menu is still open, and the rotary knob controls the frame selection field? Then the History List will indeed follow along nicely.

What I was referring to is the situation when the menu is closed again. The rotary knob then reverts to an intensity control, and there is no way to associate it with the History List (other than opening the menu again). It would be nice if one could link the knob to a list by tapping or mouse-clicking that list.

Well; I always read the whole posting before I start composing an answer. So I had learned that you find it annoying that the menu closes while fiddling with a related window. Thus I had the impression that you were well aware that the Menu has to be open in order to get access to the full functionality. Then when I read that you cannot control the History List, I didn’t know that you didn’t miss (and want) the menu this time.

Long story short: If you really want to control the History List window without the History menu open, you can do it in an awkward way with the mouse in the list, as you’ve described, or you can still use the physical Navigation buttons on the front panel. If you want to use the universal control instead, then a single click or touch on the still visible menu header at the top-right corner of the screen will open the menu again and everything works as intended.

I have figured out the arrow buttons, both the physical and the on-screen ones!   But an "analog" control, via rotary knob or mouse, would give much better control over the frame selection than the one-by-one or continuous movement supported by the arrows. I also like eTobey's suggestion of allowing users to hold the buttons for continuous forward/backward movement!

We are well into feature-wish territory here... I will write a separate post in the bugs/wantes features thread about the proposed mouse & rotary knob interaction with lists. The current control options seem a bit rudimentary, and it should be possible to improve the user experience significantly with a manageable effort.

Yes, there are lots of suggestions. If a member here makes some effort to write a quality report, then I’ve often made a bug report or feature request of that posting – if I had the time and opportunity to read the forum at all.

[Omega Glory]

Does anybody know what the FFT update rate is like? Especially compared to the SDS1104X-E?

[eTobey]

I cant filter the for a range of CAN IDs for the trigger... No way! That is something the Rigol can do (somewhat usable)!

[2N3055]

I cant filter for a range of CAN IDs... No way! That is something the Rigol can do (somewhat usable)!

Could you explain what you mean?
Filter in decoded list or in trigger?

[eTobey]

Its the trigger

[BillyO]

Dang, can't get a SDS804X-HD in Canada until early May.  One supplier (of the two official outlets) is offering me a price of $389USD if I pay today for a burger I get in May.  Do I trust them??  Not my usual source so a little leery.

[KungFuJosh]

Dang, can't get a SDS804X-HD in Canada until early May.  One supplier (of the two official outlets) is offering me a price of $389USD if I pay today for a burger I get in May.  Do I trust them??  Not my usual source so a little leery.

No way. Hard pass. If it was somebody you absolutely trusted, sure. But that sounds like a scam.

[tautech]

Dang, can't get a SDS804X-HD in Canada until early May.  One supplier (of the two official outlets) is offering me a price of $389USD if I pay today for a burger I get in May.  Do I trust them??  Not my usual source so a little leery.

A $50 saving is a $50 saving......unless they have their pricing wrong.
Ask for this price in writing for a May ETA and delivery costs.

Will nearly be May before we get any of the new HD scopes. 

[BillyO]

No way. Hard pass. If it was somebody you absolutely trusted, sure. But that sounds like a scam.

They are listed on Siglent NA's site as legit.   

One of the problems is they do not list all their policies, like shipping, returns and warranty service policy.   With my usual source they do and usually exceed their policy terms.

Yeah, for a few bucks and a little time I think I'll wait.

[BillyO]

Dang, can't get a SDS804X-HD in Canada until early May.  One supplier (of the two official outlets) is offering me a price of $389USD if I pay today for a burger I get in May.  Do I trust them??  Not my usual source so a little leery.

A $50 saving is a $50 saving......unless they have their pricing wrong.
Ask for this price in writing for a May ETA and delivery costs.

Will nearly be May before we get any of the new HD scopes. 

Yeah $50 is $50 (more so in CAD) and they are a listed vendor.  Just that RCC (my usual vendor) have been an excellent "partner".  When I had a problem with my DC load they did a cross ship for me.  That's above and beyond.  And when I had an off-set issue with my SDS1104X-E they offered to forward it the Siglent NA for me saving me a ton on shipping.

I think I'll just wait and deal with RCC.  They have been great so far and seem a little bit less desperate.

[2N3055]

Its the trigger

You can copy signal settings to trigger for easy basic setup-

Then go to: Trigger : CAN setting: Condition

[eTobey]

You can copy signal settings to trigger for easy basic setup-

Then go to: Trigger : CAN setting: Condition

Could you explain this a bit more precise? What signal settings?

The manual is not so good about this topic.

[electronics hobbyist]

Does anybody know what the FFT update rate is like? Especially compared to the SDS1104X-E?

The SDS800X HD is smoother than the SDS1104X-E.
What is the purpose of this question? If you are just deciding which product to choose, you are definitely choosing the SDS800X HD.
If you focus on this performance, my opinion is that functional correctness and stability are much more important than speed.