Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's

[Mechatrommer]

It is a beautiful little black beast, isn‘t it?

yeah it looks like rigol ds1000e version when artist kid with crayon havent paint on it

[RAPo]

or Siglent is generating a new license generating/check algorithm that will be in an upcoming firmware :eek:

[baldurn]

Actually 70Mhz probes included, actually clever.
A set of new probes costs more than buying the larger model.
Unless, like me, you have others at home anyway, then the idea behind it has become obsolete.
So, let the scope acclimatize first....

Actually many people could get away with just two upgraded probes at 30 euro each. Also since you would be upgrading to 824xhd at 699 euro compared to 409 euro, the savings could be 699-409-60 = 230 euro. Or 170 euro with four upgraded probes.

[baldurn]

or Siglent is generating a new license generating/check algorithm that will be in an upcoming firmware :eek:

That would be problematic for them. They already sold licences using the old codes.

Besides the key generator is no accident. Maybe it was even leaked by Siglent themselves. They need it to be competitive with Rigol that also can be hacked.

Siglent already has a more solid licensing system as used on sds2000xhd. That one can only be hacked by a select few with no public key generator. So why was it not used on sds800xhd? Because they want it to be easily hackable.

It is a clever way to have multiple prices. Government institutions and many companies would rather pay the higher price and do not allow the use of illegal unlicensed instruments. Hobby people can get a good deal. Everyone decides for themselves which group they belong in.

[Martin72]

OK guys, that was a bad argument...
You can of course buy cheap probes, but for personal reasons I didn't come up with the idea.

[RAPo]

Lets hope this. Because in theory they could generate licenses specifically for a type of oscilloscope. Thats why I formulated as a combo: generating and check.

or Siglent is generating a new license generating/check algorithm that will be in an upcoming firmware :eek:

That would be problematic for them. They already sold licences using the old codes.

Besides the key generator is no accident. Maybe it was even leaked by Siglent themselves. They need it to be competitive with Rigol that also can be hacked.

Siglent already has a more solid licensing system as used on sds2000xhd. That one can only be hacked by a select few with no public key generator. So why was it not used on sds800xhd? Because they want it to be easily hackable.

It is a clever way to have multiple prices. Government institutions and many companies would rather pay the higher price and do not allow the use of illegal unlicensed instruments. Hobby people can get a good deal. Everyone decides for themselves which group they belong in.

[Martin72]

Turned it on...
Looks like a mini-me from the 2k models...
Immediately familiar with the operation of the scope, the mix of touchscreen and real buttons is simply better than without.
Very positive:
The touchscreen response is very fast.
Let's see what else there is, I'll probably have some time for it this weekend.

[Martin72]

So why was it not used on sds800xhd? Because they want it to be easily hackable.

That's a fallacy, I can tell you that.

[2N3055]

Turned it on...
Looks like a mini-me from the 2k models...
Immediately familiar with the operation of the scope, the mix of touchscreen and real buttons is simply better than without.
Very positive:
The touchscreen response is very fast.
Let's see what else there is, I'll probably have some time for it this weekend.

Yep it's a cute little bugger. "The little engine that could" comes to mind ...

[baldurn]

So why was it not used on sds800xhd? Because they want it to be easily hackable.

That's a fallacy, I can tell you that.

Is it now? There are some very clever people working for Siglent. They build a device which is quite good in both hardware and software. Yet nobody at Siglent can figure out a better way to generate licence codes than using a decade old broken scheme and maybe we will also believe in a fairytale where they don't know about the key generator? In fact, they are so sure about the encryption, that they made option keys they don't sell for upgrades.

Do you believe them to be stupid?

Or we could maybe think about why would a company choose to use keys from a public key generator and go to the trouble of adding options, not for sale, just to enable extra easy hacking of the scope.

[KungFuJosh]

I agree. I don't think the hackability is a mistake. It makes the products more popular in the hobby market, and I'm sure they're aware of that. If not, there wouldn't be a need for a separate license system for the higher end models they don't want to be so easily hacked. And certainly they would have removed the Ver1 licensing from the lower end new release models if they didn't want them to be hackable by hobbyists that don't need to worry about certification.

Why would the 800 that has the same platform as the 2000 and 3000 HD models use a different licensing system? There's no other reason I can think of.

[Antonio90]

Let's hope the bottom-line scopes stay relatively open. If Siglent keeps pushing towards "A" brand market they might hire a few MBAs, increase prices drastically and close everything.

We need at least two decent brands of entry-level test equipment. If Rigol doesn't up their game and gets outcompeted by Siglent and/or Siglent abandons entry level, we hobbyists are in for a rough time.

[Martin72]

If you can hack it that easily, then they wouldn't want it any other way....Interesting conclusion.

One house has a simple security lock in the front door, the neighbor's has a more complicated one.
I don't think either of them would want anyone breaking in.
A locked door indicates that you simply can't come in like that and every normal person respects that.
That doesn't stop me from cracking the door of the 804, but I would never think that the manufacturer wanted it that way.
And I know that it's not appreciated how freely people write about hacking here.
Making hacking more difficult on the more expensive models is a consequence of this, let's hope it stays that way.

[Martin72]

I had to play around a bit earlier...
Bodnar connected over 50Ohm, risetime measured.
And then I noticed something in the menu, I could have sworn I hadn't seen it before with the 2000Xplus or HD.
At the bottom of the Measure menu there is an item "Result Style", where you can choose between Embedded or Floating - I think the result is very good.
Perhaps this point was added because of the smaller screen.
Somewhat funny:
The default button, no longer embedded in the front...
Thank goodness there is a prompt asking whether you want to reset or not.
If you go back to the defaults, however, not everything is reset to the factory settings.
So jpg is set back to png, time and date are also set back - but time zone and LAN settings are not.

Martin

[baldurn]

If you can hack it that easily, then they wouldn't want it any other way....Interesting conclusion.

One house has a simple security lock in the front door, the neighbor's has a more complicated one.
I don't think either of them would want anyone breaking in.
A locked door indicates that you simply can't come in like that and every normal person respects that.
That doesn't stop me from cracking the door of the 804, but I would never think that the manufacturer wanted it that way.
And I know that it's not appreciated how freely people write about hacking here.
Making hacking more difficult on the more expensive models is a consequence of this, let's hope it stays that way.

Having fun with the analogies:

Siglent build a house named SDS1000X and put on a combination lock and left the combination at 000. For 10 years it was well known and a lot of people entered and not once did Siglent complain.

Then Siglent builds a new house named SDS2000XHD and puts on a high security lock with card and fingerprint readers. Nobody enters without permission from Siglent.

Then Siglent builds a third house named SDS800XHD using the plans from SDS2000XHD including the high security lock. However they choose to disable the high security lock and instead put on a combination lock with the combination at 000. Even before the opening day people where using the well known code and Siglent never complains.

How is that not an invitation?

Yes it is supposed to be illegal. Barely. That is the whole point of how this scheme works for Siglent. All the boys use the well known code not caring that it is technically illegal. The grownups have to respect the law and not enter, although they easily could. That is exactly how Siglent planed it to be.

A better analogy is software with education, hobby and startup licensing. It is not unusual to have a cheaper license for various reasons. Although I agree that using easy hackability is a lousy way to achieve this. It would be better to sell licenses with restrictions on who can use it.

[Martin72]

I think I'll change the horizontal scaling, with 70Mhz bandwidth that's probably the order of the day.
So once again...

[Martin72]

So, with 300Mhz it is visually easier to read.
96Mhz cut-off frequency at official 70Mhz.
Now I will increase the bandwidth accordingly in two steps.
To be continued.

[Vitold]

Hello together!

I have a new SDS800X scope and I read here about license hacking but I have a question.

I have tried the Python program and I upgraded the bandwidth with no problem. But option keys (-FD, -PA, -LA16) do not work.  Scope does not like the keys ("invalid data")

Is someone here who can make this work?  Maybe I am doing something wrong - sorry.

(and sorry for bad English )

[Martin72]

I've been a bit busy, because the times when I party on Saturday nights are getting fewer and fewer...
The link to the "finished" phyton script, which I had described in the sdg2042 hackdoor thread, no longer works.
I then downloaded a script and used it online.
I only picked out the bandwidths.
And then it started...
Risetimes of 814 and 824 recorded, the bandwidths recorded using FFT Max hold and R&S SML01, finally all three bandwidths superimposed and all three risetimes.
This using the REF traces.
I noticed something slightly annoying, which I will post in the bug/feature thread.
But that's enough for today, it was fun to work with the small scope.

[Martin72]

Because of the 10 pic limit, another two showing the setup and the running scope - I like the color more and more...

[Antonio90]

Could you demo the power analysis suite a bit?

[Martin72]

That's a good idea, the feature has never been shown before, as far as I can remember.
I'll think of something.

[baldurn]

Hello together!

I have a new SDS800X scope and I read here about license hacking but I have a question.

I have tried the Python program and I upgraded the bandwidth with no problem. But option keys (-FD, -PA, -LA16) do not work.  Scope does not like the keys ("invalid data")

Is someone here who can make this work?  Maybe I am doing something wrong - sorry.

(and sorry for bad English )

You are likely using the wrong option keys. Here is the list:

70M (to downgrade to 804)
100M (upgrade to 814)
200M (upgrade to 824)
AWG (enable signal generator)
MSO (enable logic probe)
PWA (enable power analysis)

Notice how it is _not_ the more logical LA16 etc but instead MSO.

[Antonio90]

That's a good idea, the feature has never been shown before, as far as I can remember.
I'll think of something.

I haven't seen it demoed yet, but I'm aware you got some nice new probes fit for the purpose 

[Vitold]

You are likely using the wrong option keys. Here is the list:

70M (to downgrade to 804)
100M (upgrade to 814)
200M (upgrade to 824)
AWG (enable signal generator)
MSO (enable logic probe)
PWA (enable power analysis)

Notice how it is _not_ the more logical LA16 etc but instead MSO.

Yes - that fixed it.  Thank you! It is very strange that the scope says options end in -FG, -LA16 and -PA but key generator is different. But I am very happy now