Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's

[Martin72]

Welectron is based in the south of Germany, Batronix in the north, so perhaps the wave of deliveries will spill over...
The marcoreps 5% discount code still doesn't work, when I tried it I thought it was because the scopes were just listed.
But perhaps welectron has not yet activated it.

[Bad_Driver]

Welectron is based in the south of Germany, Batronix in the north, so perhaps the wave of deliveries will spill over...
The marcoreps 5% discount code still doesn't work, when I tried it I thought it was because the scopes were just listed.
But perhaps welectron has not yet activated it.

Call them, it helps 

[Martin72]

Thanks, that's good to know in case I decide to buy an 800 out of curiosity in addition to the 3034.

[TK]

You are arguing that if you buy one PC with Windows and Office you have right to install Office on every other PC you own.
You don't.

Calm down please. It is not like buying software. It is like buying a PC and when it arrives there is a password lock on it. Then the seller wants money to tell you the code.

What you describe is what it would be if the hardware was sold with a code to _one_ scope. But tautech tells us it is sold with codes for _zero_ scopes. So you get a product you can't actually use without going back and buy a code. That is called deceptive marketing. You think you are buying for a set price but it really is more expensive, which you are told after you paid.

Of course I think it would be fair that the license follows the hardware. Why wouldn't it? It is like buying a printer that only works with one computer. If you need to repurpose that printer, you have to pay for it again? That is not really fair. But that is not what I claim to be illegal. That is just unfair. The illegal thing is what I described in previous paragraph. The practice of selling hardware that you can not actually use.

I agree with baldurn, in this case one is useless without the other, unless Siglent enables third party digital pod manufacturers and sellers.  They should be priced as a bundle to avoid surprises, it is a matter of expectations, not the price itself.

[BillyO]

They should be priced as a bundle to avoid surprises, it is a matter of expectations, not the price itself.

I think schools and other places where they have multiple scopes but do not need multiple function generators or logic analyzers might disagree with you.

Imagine a school lab with 15 scopes but only need 2 or 3 function generators/logic analyzers at any one time.  They could buy the licenses for all scopes so any station could use them as required and just enough of the hardware to meet their needs.

As a matter of course though Siglent often bundle stuff as incentive deals.  Most likely for the hobbyist.

[tautech]

I agree with baldurn, in this case one is useless without the other, unless Siglent enables third party digital pod manufacturers and sellers.  They should be priced as a bundle to avoid surprises, it is a matter of expectations, not the price itself.

Consider you already had 4ch X-E with SLA1016 or SAG1021I
Why buy another when the SLA1016/SAG1021I you already have will work with SDS800X HD ?

Then only purchase of the license is required.

Also this:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds800x-hd-12-bit-dsos-coming/msg5365700/#msg5365700

[KungFuJosh]

Thanks, that's good to know in case I decide to buy an 800 out of curiosity in addition to the 3034.

Suuuuuure. That's not an IF, that's a WHEN. 😉

[BillyO]

It seems pretty straightforward to me: With each hardware sale, include the license to use it on a single scope. That avoids surprises for the customers and the potential feeling of being taken advantage of. 
 In addition to that, offer license-only options for people who want to use their hardware unit with more than one scope.

That works for me.

[jone]

I may well have missed it, but is there a list of which probes come with each model?

Just wondering how much replacements for an 'upgraded' scope would cost vs buying the faster model in the first place.. Thanks!

[BillyO]

It's in the datasheet. Each model comes with probes that are specified at the same bandwidth as the scope.

Which brings up a good question.  Theoretically, if you have a scope with 70MHz BW and probes with 70MHz BW, then you actually have a system that is: BW = 1/SQR((1/70)^2 + (1/70)^2) = 50MHz

So, do manufacturers supply a system (scope + probes) that gives the published BW for the scope?  i.e. will a 70MHz scope with it's 70MHz probes give a 70MHz system? 

According to the theory you would need about a 100MHz scope and ~100MHz probes to get a combined 70MHz system.

[2N3055]

Performa01 did very comprehensive tests of some Siglent probes.. I suggest a search for that topic and read.
It has all already been explained before..

[BillyO]

Performa01 did very comprehensive tests of some Siglent probes.. I suggest a search for that topic and read.
It has all already been explained before..

So, the question was not just regarding Siglent.  More a "What does the industry normally do?".  Over at Keysight, they take great pains to tell people that system BW is likely going to be less.  I know Siglent scope and probes individually exceed rated BW so I'd be confident that my 100MHz Siglent scope + supplied probes will give me pretty darn close to 100MHz.  But they may be the exception - what Keysight say seems to indicate that they may be.

At least, for the extra money you pay to get "Keysight" on your scope, they don't promise system performance will match what's printed on your scope and probes.

https://docs.keysight.com/kkbopen/overall-system-bandwidth-of-an-oscilloscope-and-probe-combination-577941403.html

(BTW, I did read that topic more than a year ago)

[orzel]

Which brings up a good question.  Theoretically, if you have a scope with 70MHz BW and probes with 70MHz BW, then you actually have a system that is: BW = 1/SQR((1/70)^2 + (1/70)^2) = 50MHz

So, do manufacturers supply a system (scope + probes) that gives the published BW for the scope?  i.e. will a 70MHz scope with it's 70MHz probes give a 70MHz system? 

According to the theory you would need about a 100MHz scope and ~100MHz probes to get a combined 70MHz system.

It's a famous question. Answered all around the web. Maybe even Dave made a video about this ?

The published BW is the one for the scope alone, not the whole system. And yes, adding a probe lower the total measurement BW.

[BillyO]

It's a famous question.

Indeed, but are enough people asking it?   

Everybody using a scope should.

[Bad_Driver]

Probes are always a mystery for me. I have some old probes from a „gone“ scope which are much better in the 1x range with respect to the upper BW (but only in this range) than my Siglent probes from my SDS2000x+.

[tautech]

Performa01 did very comprehensive tests of some Siglent probes.. I suggest a search for that topic and read.

I searched a bit, using the forum search as well as Google. but have come up empty so far. Any pointers?

A look at PP510 BW is in this post:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/msg5293756/#msg5293756

[skander36]

Then what you gonna do with a scope with 1 Ghz Bw that come with 500 MHZ probes (SDS3000HD for ex.) ?
You will spend another 4 K Euro for a set of active probes (Siglent SAP1000)?

[2N3055]

Then what you gonna do with a scope with 1 Ghz Bw that come with 500 MHZ probes (SDS3000HD for ex.) ?
You will spend another 4 K Euro for a set of active probes (Siglent SAP1000)?

 

Every manufacturer's dream customer.... 

[BillyO]

Then what you gonna do with a scope with 1 Ghz Bw that come with 500 MHZ probes (SDS3000HD for ex.) ?
You will spend another 4 K Euro for a set of active probes (Siglent SAP1000)?

Well, that's like me when I "improved" my SDS2104X P to 630/350MHz.  Not quite on the same scale but I had to spend an extra $500 on probes to get the benefit.  2x750MHz active FET and 2X500MHz passive and a power supply for the active probes.  All used stuff.  The power supply is $4K new by itself!!!

All apart of the game.  The faster you go, the pricier the ticket is to play.

[KungFuJosh]

Then what you gonna do with a scope with 1 Ghz Bw that come with 500 MHZ probes (SDS3000HD for ex.) ?
You will spend another 4 K Euro for a set of active probes (Siglent SAP1000)?

Even 500MHz passive probes aren't generally trusted. Would you prefer the scope only came with $4000 extra probes so you had to spend twice as much on the scope?

[mawyatt]

All apart of the game.  The faster you go, the pricier the ticket is to play.

They learned that from cars

Best,

[BillyO]

They learned that from cars

Best,

Yes!  And motorcycles..

[TK]

I agree with baldurn, in this case one is useless without the other, unless Siglent enables third party digital pod manufacturers and sellers.  They should be priced as a bundle to avoid surprises, it is a matter of expectations, not the price itself.

Consider you already had 4ch X-E with SLA1016 or SAG1021I
Why buy another when the SLA1016/SAG1021I you already have will work with SDS800X HD ?

Then only purchase of the license is required.

Also this:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds800x-hd-12-bit-dsos-coming/msg5365700/#msg5365700

If I had the X-E with SLA1016 / SAG1021I, I would sell it when I buy the SDS800X-HD and probably keep the digital probe, but the license I paid to use the probe goes with the X-E and I need to buy a new license... what a non-sense business proposition...

[BillyO]

If I had the X-E with SLA1016 / SAG1021I, I would sell it when I buy the SDS800X-HD and probably keep the digital probe, but the license I paid to use the probe goes with the X-E and I need to buy a new license... what a non-sense business proposition...

As opposed to what?

I buy a Honda civic and pay for snow tires to drive in winter,  I would sell it when I buy the Accord and probably keep driving in winter, but I have to buy new tires that fit my Accord .... blah, blah blah ..

 

[TK]

If I had the X-E with SLA1016 / SAG1021I, I would sell it when I buy the SDS800X-HD and probably keep the digital probe, but the license I paid to use the probe goes with the X-E and I need to buy a new license... what a non-sense business proposition...

As opposed to what?

I buy a Honda civic and pay for snow tires to drive in winter,  I would sell it when I buy the Accord and probably keep driving in winter, but I have to buy new tires that fit my Accord .... blah, blah blah ..

 

Your counter example is flawed, we are talking the same accessory that works on both HW, and you are talking about incompatible accessories (tires for the Civic and tires for the Accord)... and you don't pay Honda a separate license for you to use the winter tires, correct?  I don't think Rigol, Keysight, Rohde & Schwarz charge separate HW accessory and SW license to enable the digital channels