Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's

[BillyO]

Well technically the scope will do the same sampling rate. I don't think anything will change in the analog path as well. So we kind of can conclude that it's the digital path that brings it up. Or it gets rid of it when the bandwidth is lower.

Well the sampling rates of the two scopes are the same, however the analog BW is more than twice in the picture I showed.  Possibly the ADC is different too and it may have something to do with it, but the higher BW is a least not going to do anything to attenuate the overshoot. 

But as I said, I don't think it matters if you use it with an oscilloscope probe, it will not do this.

For a passive probe I would agree.  They have built in resistive attenuation.  However, when I use my P6205 FET probes I get a similar response to going direct.  Can't seem to locate teh picture of that, but I posted on this site before. 


Actually I'm wrong.  Using the FET probe is much cleaner:

[tszaboo]

Well technically the scope will do the same sampling rate. I don't think anything will change in the analog path as well. So we kind of can conclude that it's the digital path that brings it up. Or it gets rid of it when the bandwidth is lower.

Well the sampling rates of the two scopes are the same, however the analog BW is more than twice in the picture I showed.  Possibly the ADC is different too and it may have something to do with it, but the higher BW is a least not going to do anything to attenuate the overshoot. 

But as I said, I don't think it matters if you use it with an oscilloscope probe, it will not do this.

For a passive probe I would agree.  They have built in resistive attenuation.  However, when I use my P6205 FET probes I get a similar response to going direct.  Can't seem to locate teh picture of that, but I posted on this site before. 


Actually I'm wrong.  Using the FET probe is much cleaner:
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You are right. But I was talking about the 3 different response between the 70/100/200MHz SDS804HD.
Also, I don't think you would want to use a FET probe with the SDS804HD, don't they expect 50 Ohm load? maybe to reduce the capacitive loading to measure a crystal?

[2N3055]

To make sure full data is available, my Bodnar pulser in spec sheet specifies 4.7% overshoot and 8.2% undershoot.
And that in almost perfectly terminated in SCA803 with SD-30 sampling head.

But the period of the ringing is in the order of 50ps, and the overshoot has well settled within the risetime of the scope. For a frontend with only 200 MHz bandwidth, the inherent Bodnar risetime and overshoot are IMO almost negligible (i.e. it can be considered an almost ideal square wave). For a 1GHz scope, it likely starts to matter, though.

If I connect Bodnar->50Ω passthrough -> 10 dB terminator I get this:

Shouldn't the order be be rather Bodnar -> attenuator -> 50R passthru -> scope, in order that the Bodnar is 50R terminated, the attenuator is 50R terminated as well at each side, and we get a 25R|15pF 1st order lowpass (~400MHz) at the scope input?

From which model and bandwidth is your screenshot? Is it a SDS824X? If not, is any artificial (digital?) BW limit activated?

It is SDS824xHD

And you are right about order of connections. We spoke about this many times. If you shoot very fast pulse (2 magnitude orders faster in this case) into BNC on modern scopes you will get some overshoot.

What I show is that if signal has 0.7-0.8 ns edges you get perfect response. If you feed it something faster than that there will be overshoot.
This scope is used with passive 1MΩ probe. As a combined system it has very nicely defined pulse response. Probe will act as lowpass filter.

But there is a thing nobody talks about: What is Bodnar response with 17pF capacitive loading? And a piece of stub for scope input?
Fact is, if I use 10 or 20dB attenuator with my other scopes that have 50Ω termination in the scope, they overshoot much less too. There should not be such lowpass filtering there. Pulser is also sensitive to load SWR and such. 30ps edges mean lots of current, lots of energy to bounce around.

[hallkbrdz]

Thanks for posting it - I was about to call as it STILL shows "on order" from TE.

That's disappointing.

[tautech]

tautech was so busy checking/testing some his current current probes and hit Save for each capture then noticed no USB stick was fitted and they all got saved to Local. 

File Manager to the rescue, select each and Copy/Paste to USB. 

[tautech]

New firmware for SDS800X HD models.

Version： V1.1.3.3
68.5 MB
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Oscilloscope/SDS800X_HD_V1.1.3.3_EN.zip

Release notes
1. Solve the problem that Bode Plot cannot control SDG1000
2. Solve the problem that user probe coefficient are not restored after reboot
3. Solve the problem that the screen does not support multi-touch


SLA1016 (LA/MSO Option) Firmware Update

Version SLA_8.2.3
4.54 MB
https://int.siglent.com/u_file/download/24_03_05/SLA_8.2.3_EN.zip

Release note
1. Support SDS1000X HD and SDS800X HD, 8.2.x is only applicable to SDS1000X HD and SDS800X HD.

[Harrow]

Unfortunately there seems to be a long lead time with US distributors, I placed my order on TEquipment and the estimated ship date is 5/10/24 . It's too bad they didn't list that during ordering... I'd rather have my money in the bank and pay once its available to ship

I guess I should cross my fingers that I can get it as a Xmas present down under. Grrrr.

[tautech]

New firmware for SDS800X HD models.

That was quick; thank you for the heads-up!

Beta testers have had this for a few weeks.

I just happened to glance at the poll again which you did here a while ago. Any indication from Siglent whether WiFi support has made it to their roadmap for the 800X HD?

This has already been brought to their attention.
The poll has not been shared with them yet but will be after members votes grow some more.

[Bad_Driver]

I found the first bug.

Yesterday I played with the new filter functions and set a fixed sample rate (1 Ms/sec) for a 20 kHz LP-Filter.
I forgot this setting when I booted the system this morning. I fed again 10 Mhz from the Bodnar pulser and
could not trigger anymore (no question, sample rate too low!)

I tried AUTO SETUP and this ran the scope crazy, it took 30 sec and at the end no key worked, no trace on the screen, only the web interface and mouse were available.

AUTO SETUP did not change the memory managment/the sample rate to "auto"! But this should easy to be fixed.

[2N3055]

I found the first bug.

Yesterday I played with the new filter functions and set a fixed sample rate (1 Ms/sec) for a 20 kHz LP-Filter.
I forgot this setting when I booted the system this morning. I fed again 10 Mhz from the Bodnar pulser and
could not trigger anymore (no question, sample rate too low!)

I tried AUTO SETUP and this ran the scope crazy, it took 30 sec and at the end no key worked, no trace on the screen, only the web interface and mouse were available.

AUTO SETUP did not change the memory managment/the sample rate to "auto"! But this should easy to be fixed.

That is not really a bug...

AUTO does not change acquisition settings. It actually sets just few parameters but not general setup of the scope.

To achieve what you wanted you have to press DEFAULT button first (that one resets scope to default settings, all of them), and then AUTO.

What we could argue is that AUTO could be enhanced to deal with more situations in more sophisticated ways...
But that is a rabbit hole in itself...

[tszaboo]

Anyone know if Dave is planning a review or teardown of the new scopes?

[2N3055]

Did you really think I would not try it? 

UPDATE:
It IS some kind of bug. It gets confused in AUTO and does not timeout after few seconds.
But only if you leave Math-Filter ON and shutdown.

If I enable filtering and then immediately do AUTO it works just fine.

Will report it to Siglent.
I cannot replicate it on other scopes I have.

But DEFAULT before AUTO is working. Also if after reboot you change Acquire mode back to Auto it is OK.
If you wait for it to timeout ( quite long, tens of seconds) go into Acquire and set it to Auto, it also goes back to normal.

[Bad_Driver]

But DEFAULT before AUTO is working. Also if after reboot you change Acquire mode back to Auto it is OK.
If you wait for it to timeout ( quite long, tens of seconds) go into Acquire and set it to Auto, it also goes back to normal.

Something like this only happens to me once! It took 20 min to find the reason 

[Martin72]

Anyone know if Dave is planning a review or teardown of the new scopes?

He has to get it first and I'm curious whether that will happen at all.

[2N3055]

But DEFAULT before AUTO is working. Also if after reboot you change Acquire mode back to Auto it is OK.
If you wait for it to timeout ( quite long, tens of seconds) go into Acquire and set it to Auto, it also goes back to normal.

Something like this only happens to me once! It took 20 min to find the reason 

It is a talent, you know ? 
Good job !! 

[BillyO]

He has to get it first and I'm curious whether that will happen at all.

Interesting thought.  Do you suspect a falling out between Dave and Siglent?

[Martin72]

With the last models (2000Xplus, 2000X HD) he had only done teardowns and "short testing, no real reviews.
This may have an effect on the manufacturer's "willingness to spend".
But I could also be completely wrong.

[Bad_Driver]

With the last models (2000Xplus, 2000X HD) he had only done teardowns and "short testing, no real reviews.
This may have an effect on the manufacturer's "willingness to spend".
But I could also be completely wrong.

Either I have become too critical in the last few months or Dave's videos are becoming superficial - I get the impression that he makes far too little effort to thoroughly understand certain functions and then use them well.
The big advantage of Dave's videos is that you can often see new devices demonstrated and get a first impression of the internal structure.
But of course he has the merit of bringing together the largest electronics community in the world here, and I expressly appreciate that.

[orzel]

With the last models (2000Xplus, 2000X HD) he had only done teardowns and "short testing, no real reviews.
This may have an effect on the manufacturer's "willingness to spend".
But I could also be completely wrong.

And maybe Dave has a slight bias toward rigol 

[switchabl]

I didn't think Dave did paid reviews? So it's just giving away 500$ of hardware in exchange for a 20 minute video on a channel with nearly 1M subscribers, with a highly relevant demographic? That's crazy cheap.

[tszaboo]

And maybe Dave has a slight bias toward rigol 

Not sure about a brand bias in general. But since Rigol puts a focus on being first to market, and on flashy user interfaces, their scopes might just make for the more "exciting" video content, which suits Dave's style and audience better.

His DHO800 video could talk about "first 12 bit scope for everybody", shiny GUI, new form factor, VESA mount, USB-C power supply etc.; all pretty catchy and visual topics. An SDS800X HD video would have to focus on "another 12 bit scope, but better", talk about FFT and other analysis capabilities in some detail to explain the differences, while the form factor and appearance are "basically the same as the predecessor, now in black". Very relevant for the audience in this forum section, but not a very impactful video for Dave's channel maybe?

There are 800 comments in this thread, there is clearly an audience for a review.
Also it's 3 scopes, so it's an exciting time, could be quite a bit of content to compare all these to each other and to the Rigols.
Or maybe he is preoccupied selling BTC.

[2N3055]

And maybe Dave has a slight bias toward rigol 

Not sure about a brand bias in general. But since Rigol puts a focus on being first to market, and on flashy user interfaces, their scopes might just make for the more "exciting" video content, which suits Dave's style and audience better.

His DHO800 video could talk about "first 12 bit scope for everybody", shiny GUI, new form factor, VESA mount, USB-C power supply etc.; all pretty catchy and visual topics. An SDS800X HD video would have to focus on "another 12 bit scope, but better", talk about FFT and other analysis capabilities in some detail to explain the differences, while the form factor and appearance are "basically the same as the predecessor, now in black". Very relevant for the audience in this forum section, but not a very impactful video for Dave's channel maybe?

There are 800 comments in this thread, there is clearly an audience for a review.
Also it's 3 scopes, so it's an exciting time, could be quite a bit of content to compare all these to each other and to the Rigols.
Or maybe he is preoccupied selling BTC.

Dave is in Youtube business. If it ain't flashy, loud, or controversial, "groundbreaking", "game changer" and all other stuff like that, it is not worth of a video.
800 comments here by altogether 30 people does not buy bread on Youtube.

We could argue if he ever did a real "technical review".
Dave does some presentations of products, some features and that is it. Biggest thing is if he finds a bug that can be made into bombastic title.
Not a critique of a Dave, mind you. That is the media he produces for. He didn't make the rules.

Perfoma01 does reviews. And his single review produces a 100 pages book.
Rudi made some reviews of scopes, it ended up in 3-4 hours of material across half a dozen videos...
And nobody cared. Because it looked too much like a real work.

Not entertrainment. That is what Youtube is all about.

[Mortymore]

...
Perfoma01 does reviews. And his single review produces a 100 pages book.
...

Indeed. 110 pages so far

[Bit2023]

HI, has anyone confirmed that the SDS824X has the same hardware as the other two? The issue of having more memory was because someone took down the SDS1000X has saw a bigger memory chip?

or that teardown was indeed a SDS824X?

[Mechatrommer]

And maybe Dave has a slight bias toward rigol 

it may looks like it, but imho it is a fact, or psychological tendency due to few aspects unfavorable in older siglent, such as price, and strange FFT. tbh imho current sds800 series has strong selling point, comparable price and 2GSps... i may not buy it right away due to no urgent need, i need to think wisely on money expenditure, not just for fun or "here i'm the early birder!" but if need another scope, sds800 may be included in consideration. ymmv.