Siglent SDS3000X HD and upgraded SDS1000X HD

[2N3055]

There were some mentions of disadvantages of external logic analyzer SoC as well as opposed to internal like the 2kHD has

"
The external subsystem approach has a few disadvantages:

•   Since it incorporates a complete SOC and local memory, it cannot be cheap even though the probe head and the grabbers leave a cheap impression.
•   Mixed analog / digital pattern trigger is not possible.
•   Zoom mode cannot be used as soon as digital channels are enabled.
•   History doesn’t work either when digital channels are activated.
"
Reply #7 - https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/msg5293765/#msg5293765

Yes, thank you, that is the Performa's topic with his excellent review.
Highly recommended. Even if you are not a Siglent user.
So much good info on scopes in general..

[tszaboo]

For SDS1000X HD both the external HW and licenses are needed. [...]

Well, the internal AWG is nice if you want to save bench space, but if I didn't own an SDG2k already, and given the choice between the internal AWG and an SDG1032 (which has two channels and 5Mhz more range), for some €50 more, I don't think the offer could convince me. The value proposition is a bit weak.
Siglent promises us interaction between the SDG and SDS, which I'm expecting will be just somewhat less comfortable than using the internal AWG.

The SPL2016 admittedly is a lot nicer, but it's not like the SLA1016 is bad.

For me it's a bigger issue that the built in AWGs don't do CMOS level (or even TTL level) output voltages. At least that's what I've found on the SDS1000something I tried. And based on the datasheet of the SDS2000 HD and the external USB generators I think it's the case for these ones as well. That's a bit too much compromise for me, so I kind of made up my mind about using an external AWG anyway. With the USB control built into Siglent, I could still make bode plots (without boring scripting), and the AWG is relatively inexpensive.

[2N3055]

For SDS1000X HD both the external HW and licenses are needed. [...]

Well, the internal AWG is nice if you want to save bench space, but if I didn't own an SDG2k already, and given the choice between the internal AWG and an SDG1032 (which has two channels and 5Mhz more range), for some €50 more, I don't think the offer could convince me. The value proposition is a bit weak.
Siglent promises us interaction between the SDG and SDS, which I'm expecting will be just somewhat less comfortable than using the internal AWG.

The SPL2016 admittedly is a lot nicer, but it's not like the SLA1016 is bad.

For me it's a bigger issue that the built in AWGs don't do CMOS level (or even TTL level) output voltages. At least that's what I've found on the SDS1000something I tried. And based on the datasheet of the SDS2000 HD and the external USB generators I think it's the case for these ones as well. That's a bit too much compromise for me, so I kind of made up my mind about using an external AWG anyway. With the USB control built into Siglent, I could still make bode plots (without boring scripting), and the AWG is relatively inexpensive.

I agree. Built in AWG is nice thing sometimes, and for instance on Keysight (I have 3000T) built in AWG is only option to have FRA....
But Siglent's implementation of integration of external AWGs is so well done and seamless that external AWG is always better option, provided you can bear the cost difference. More channels, more amplitude, separate UI...

EDIT : corrected.....
As for levels, internal AWGs are mostly 5V/2,5V at 50Ω/HiZ. 

[tszaboo]

For SDS1000X HD both the external HW and licenses are needed. [...]

Well, the internal AWG is nice if you want to save bench space, but if I didn't own an SDG2k already, and given the choice between the internal AWG and an SDG1032 (which has two channels and 5Mhz more range), for some €50 more, I don't think the offer could convince me. The value proposition is a bit weak.
Siglent promises us interaction between the SDG and SDS, which I'm expecting will be just somewhat less comfortable than using the internal AWG.

The SPL2016 admittedly is a lot nicer, but it's not like the SLA1016 is bad.

For me it's a bigger issue that the built in AWGs don't do CMOS level (or even TTL level) output voltages. At least that's what I've found on the SDS1000something I tried. And based on the datasheet of the SDS2000 HD and the external USB generators I think it's the case for these ones as well. That's a bit too much compromise for me, so I kind of made up my mind about using an external AWG anyway. With the USB control built into Siglent, I could still make bode plots (without boring scripting), and the AWG is relatively inexpensive.

I agree. Built in AWG is nice thing sometimes, and for instance on Keysight (I have 3000T) built in AWG is only option to have FRA....
But Siglent's implementation of integration of external AWGs is so well done and seamless that external AWG is always better option, provided you can bear the cost difference. More channels, more amplitude, separate UI...

As for levels, internal AWGs are mostly 5V/2,5V at 50Ω/HiZ.

Unfortunately they aren't. This is from the Datasheet of the SDS2000HD:
Amplitude Range -1.5 V ~ +1.5 V (into 50 Ω) -3 V ~ +3 V (into High-Z)
I said, that's OK, I just add the DC offset. The MSOX3104 will dot that, and you can get 0-5V output level. But there seems to be a hardware limitation that even with the DC offset, the output is limited to these levels. Which s fair, it's a different class of instruments. And even for ~300 EUR, you get a AWG from Siglent that runs circles around the built in in any scope on the market.

[orzel]

Siglent promises us interaction between the SDG and SDS, which I'm expecting will be just somewhat less comfortable than using the internal AWG.

I use SDG/SDS connected by usb for Bode plottting, and it's really as easy as you could hope.
And I highly prefer having two different gears.

[Martin72]

I always ignored the integrated AWGs because they were not sufficient in terms of amplitude alone.

[temperance]

I can confirm that working with an external AWG works perfectly fine.

[temperance]

ipod nano's were for girls.

[Martin72]

https://www.batronix.com/versand/oszilloskope/Siglent-SDS3034X-hd.html

Soon...soon....

The delivery time display has changed from 5-10 to 11-21 days.
Maybe I'm lucky and it won't affect me.

[egonotto]

Hello,

my order confirmation says "available in about 4 weeks"

Best regards
egonotto

[slugrustle]

Out of curiosity, how long is it usually between the release of a new scope like this and the first firmware update?

[Martin72]

Based on my experience with the SDS2000X HD, just under a year....
No, if there are really "bad" bugs, they are usually fixed quickly.
The "problem" with the SDS2000X HD was that it is based on software that is already very mature, so there was no update so quickly.
The 3000X HD/1000X HD will be no different.

@egonotto:
Also an SDS3034X HD ? Very nice, then I'm not alone...

[egonotto]

@egonotto:
Also an SDS3034X HD ? Very nice, then I'm not alone...

Hello,

yes. I briefly thought of a SDS824X HD or a SDS7304A H12. I would have liked the SDS7304A H12 very much, but it's too expensive and too big for me. The SDS3034X HD is a good compromise.

Best regards
egonotto

[skander36]

Out of curiosity, how long is it usually between the release of a new scope like this and the first firmware update?

For 1000X-HD is already a quick update in preparing that solved the issue with the wave  extreme zooming from here : https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds3000x-hd-and-upgraded-sds1000x-hd/msg5340866/#msg5340866
also the PSRR measurement stuck.

[Martin72]

Hello,

yes. I briefly thought of a SDS824X HD or a SDS7304A H12.

The differences inbetween couldn´t be higher....
But I know exactly how you feel, I feel the same way.
I'd love to buy the 7000 too, but then my clan wouldn't love me for the rest of my life if all we had to eat for a few years was soup in a bag. 

[egonotto]

Hello,

an additional problem with me is that I don't have space. When the SDS3034X HD comes, it is put where the DHO1074 used to be and the DHO1074 goes somewhere on the floor.

Best regards
egonotto

[skander36]

Same problem, but the one that is now on the floor is Keysight2k. Rigol still stand with Siglent ... 

[orzel]

Same problem, but the one that is now on the floor is Keysight2k. Rigol still stand with Siglent ... 

I don't understand those having several scopes, but I know it's very common, especially on eevblog. I must be the weird one ? 

Anyway, nice to see rigol & siglent side by side, there's a lot of passion in both 'fans' here...

[egonotto]

I don't understand those having several scopes, but I know it's very common, especially on eevblog. I must be the weird one ? 

Hello,

I can only speak for myself. I'm kind of a collector. That doesn't have much to do with reason for me.

Best regards
egonotto

[temperance]

I don't understand those having several scopes, but I know it's very common, especially on eevblog. I must be the weird one ?

It depends on what you're doing. For some applications you need a high bandwidth high sample rate scope while for other things you need low noise and accuracy and sample rate is not so important.

The remained in my case is perhaps nostalgia. I know how many weeks I worked for a 20 MHz analog scope when I was 18. Although useless today I still have that scope. Not a single scratch. I only mounted the mains transformer in an external enclosure to get rid of hum which could be seen on the screen.

[Veteran68]

I "only" have two bench scopes, and a few handhelds. I can only hope I don't get bitten by the collector bug like I did with DMMs. I'm up to almost 40 now and can't stop buying them.

[slugrustle]

I don't understand those having several scopes, but I know it's very common, especially on eevblog. I must be the weird one ?

It depends on what you're doing. For some applications you need a high bandwidth high sample rate scope while for other things you need low noise and accuracy and sample rate is not so important.

Agreed with this.  I have an SDS2000X+ for general use, a picoscope 4262 for noise floor type work, and a cleverscope CS320A-FRA for frequency response analysis.

I'm interested in the SDS3000X HD, but if I ever get one, I'd sell the SDS2000X+.

[egonotto]

Hello,

How does the FRA of the CS320A-FRA compare to the Bode Plot from Siglent?

Best Regards
egonotto

[orzel]

How does the FRA of the CS320A-FRA compare to the Bode Plot from Siglent?

I wonder too. I didn't know about this CS320A-FRA. Apparently it's a 0~65MHz sinewave generator + 12bit 8Msps scope.

I'm no expert, but i can do bode plot with my DDS (60MHz) and sds1204-x
Ok, not exactly 65MHz and the scope is "only" 8-bit. But is it really different ? Or is it because it's all integrated ?

Your (slugrustle) scope SDS2000X+ can do 10bit moreover.. ?

[orzel]

It depends on what you're doing. For some applications you need a high bandwidth high sample rate scope while for other things you need low noise and accuracy and sample rate is not so important.

I understand that very well, that's why there's such a wide range of scopes.

I guess it could happen that the same person have needs for very different scopes, but that would probably be professionals, and i expected this to be rare. I mean, once you got one of those expensive scopes, is there really anything you couldn't do with them ?