Siglent SDS3000X HD and upgraded SDS1000X HD

[skander36]

The white balance will be different on those pictures, because the case color, and different camera.

Same camera.
LE - this are crops.

[Martin72]

Hi Guys,

Give me a setup, then I can recreate it at work with two "higher end" scopes, an 8-bit 20(40) GSa/s and a 12-bit 10 GSa/s Lecroy scope.

[KungFuJosh]

Appears to be 5MHz square at 6Vpp on their earlier Stopped screen shots. Looks soo sad on my desperately antiquated SDS2504XP in 10bit mode. 😉

[skander36]

Hey people where are you going?
My first post https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds3000x-hd-and-upgraded-sds1000x-hd/msg5339594/#msg5339594
show all I want to show. No other setups. The Siglent waveform reconstructed in stop mode doesn't look as the Rigol. Some people say they are ok wiht that. I agree. This is not a dealbreaker, is just  a matter of preference. I don't regret buying SDS1KHD. I consider it superior to DHO1K in many other aspects.

[core]

Still no news about the SDS3000X HD release date ? Or there is another topic I can't find it ...

I've seen that on siglent.eu it's an empty page for this model, just waiting a push-button to be fill with specs and prices :
https://www.siglent.eu/sds3000x-hd-series

The only english datasheet I've found is here :
https://siglent.co.jp/u_file/download/24_02_23/SDS3000X%20HD_Datasheet_EN01A.pdf

[Martin72]

Hi,

Official release date for all the three series (800,1000,3000) is 28.02.2024.....

[tszaboo]

OK, so I was complaining that the SDS2000 HD pricing was nonsensical.
Take a look at this now:
Siglent SDS3034X HD 4CH 12-bit 350MHz Oscilloscope €3,380
Siglent SDS2204X HD 4CH 12-bit 200MHz Oscilloscope €3,312
Siglent SDS2354X HD 4CH 12-bit 350MHz Oscilloscope €4,210

[Martin72]

Wait and see...
With the release of the larger model, it should be clear that the prices of the smaller model will either change or the series will be taken off the market.
I believe in the former, to the delight of all those who want to buy an excellent scope for affordable money.

[rf-loop]

With the 3000 series priced above 3000€, and the new 1000 series priced at 1000€+, it seems like there is a comfortable space in the 2000 - 3000€ range for the 2000 series...

In Europe prices 28.02.2024, (Siglent official) MSRP, VAT 0%  (note some price adjust in SDS2000X HD serie)

SDS3034X HD    EUR 3380.00   350MHz
SDS3054X HD    EUR 4680.00   500MHz
SDS3104X HD    EUR 5980.00     1GHz
 
SDS2104X HD    EUR 1880.00   100MHz
SDS2204X HD    EUR 2288.00   200MHz
SDS2354X HD    EUR 2880.00   350MHz

SDS1104X HD    EUR 1099.00   100MHz
SDS1204X HD    EUR 1299.00   200MHz

 SDS804X HD    EUR  409.00    70MHz
 SDS814X HD    EUR  499.00   100MHz
 SDS824X HD    EUR  699.00   200MHz


ETA: typo corrected.

[core]

For this price, the SDS2104X HD can become a best seller for mid-class oscilloscopes.

I think to trade my DHO1074. Even if I add 1000 euro more, the SDS is a much better option.

[Martin72]

SDS2104X HD    EUR 1880.00   100MHz

Now it's definitely the best buy, it already was before in terms of "ability", and now also in terms of price.

[tautech]

SDS2104X HD    EUR 1880.00   100MHz

Now it's definitely the best buy, it already was before in terms of "ability", and now also in terms of price.

Add 235 Euro for the SDS2XHD-BND option bundle on promotion.
https://www.siglenteu.com/news-article/permanent-analysis-bundle-on-your-new-oscilloscope/#

[pope]

SDS2104X HD    EUR 1880.00   100MHz

Now it's definitely the best buy, it already was before in terms of "ability", and now also in terms of price.

Can't find anyone selling it for this price.

[DaneLaw]

Is it the exact same screen that goes again on quite a lot of the models in the current lineup.?
[10.1 TFT LCD 1024x600]
-
* SDS1000X HD
* SDS2000X Plus
* SDS2000X HD
* SDS3000X HD
* SDS5000X

[tv84]

But the SDS1000X HD cannot drive it at full resolution when displaying traces; vertical resolution is cut in half by always displaying double-pixels.

Nitpicking: The fact that they double the pixels doesn't mean the display isn't being driven at full resolution. 

[skander36]

Seems to be the same screen; certainly the same size and physical resolution. But the SDS1000X HD cannot drive it at full resolution when displaying traces; vertical resolution is cut in half by always displaying double-pixels. (That only applies to CH1..CH4 traces; math results are displayed with full resolution.)

This is not an 1000X-HD specific, but how Siglent choose to do on all models from all times ... My SDS1202X-E looks the same... I have expected that on 12 bit generation to look better but that is. It is just an aesthetic point of view it doesn't affect the technical performance.

[skander36]

This is not an 1000X-HD specific, but how Siglent choose to do on all models from all times ... My SDS1202X-E looks the same... I have expected that on 12 bit generation to look better but that is. It is just an aesthetic point of view it doesn't affect the technical performance.

That is incorrect. Just look at any screenshot from the SDS2000X HD series; they have full single-pixel resolution in X and Y. I am pretty sure that the 3000 series will be the same. Performa01 has explained in one of the HD threads that the reduced resolution of the 800 and 1000 series is due to the cheaper Zync FPGA and its limited block RAM.

Whether the reduced resolution is "just aesthetic" can be debated. Yes, I get the "analytical scope, use measurements, use math" argument. But it's an oscilloscope after all, which kind of suggests that it is good at letting you look at oscillations.

For the 1000X HD, being a 12-bit scope with a 10" screen, I think Siglent made an unfortunate tradeoff. If I pay extra for the large screen and the high ADC resolution, I would also want to see nice and clean traces. Personally I will choose the 824 instead of the 1204 -- it's nearly a factor of 2 in price, which I can't justify given the limited benefits. YMMV of course.

No. They all looks the same. Look carefully.

[skander36]

No. They all looks the same. Look carefully.

Not sure where your screenshot came from and which model was used. I looked at this post, for example, and I can clearly see the single-pixel steps:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-hd-missing-features-and-bugs/msg4606060/#msg4606060

(Attachment Link)

We are talking about SDS1000X-HD. So this screenshot come from an SDS1204X-HD. Also attached the same wave in stop mode.
But if you try to accuse me that I use images from another scopes (sources) to cover my words I don't see a point to continue ...

[skander36]

We are talking about SDS1000X-HD. So this screenshot come from an SDS1204X-HD. Also attached the same wave in stop mode.
But if you try to accuse me that I use images from another scopes (sources) to cover my words I don't see a point to continue ...

I am not attacking you -- but I have certainly lost you. Please re-read the most recent posts:

I explained that the SDS100X HD series, specifically, does not make full use of the physical screen resolution (#265). You replied and claimed that this is not specific to the 1000 series, but that "all Siglent scopes from all times" have done it that way, including the 12-bit scopes (#267). I stated that this is not the case, and that the higher-end 12-bit scopes are doing a proper job (#268).

Not sure where we got our wires crossed, it all seems clear enough to me.

It is not specific to 1000X-HD. 2000X-HD waveform is looking the same as 1000X HD. Get one and you will see.

[skander36]

It is not specific to 1000X-HD. 2000X-HD waveform is looking the same as 1000X HD. Get one and you will see.

So how did the screenshot in my reply #270 (and the 2000X HD-related post linked there) come to be?   

And why did Performa01 specifically state that the reduced resolution is due to the cost-optimized FPGA choice in the 800 and 1000 series?

Yeah whatever ... forget about ...

[core]

For the 1000X HD, being a 12-bit scope with a 10" screen, I think Siglent made an unfortunate tradeoff. If I pay extra for the large screen and the high ADC resolution, I would also want to see nice and clean traces. Personally I will choose the 824 instead of the 1204 -- it's nearly a factor of 2 in price, which I can't justify given the limited benefits. YMMV of course.

Yes, this is my opinion, too.
800X HD it's an 1000 with a smaller screen.
If you need more than 800X HD, better go to 2000X HD, significant changes (better) in all departments compared with 1000X HD. Including the one-vs-two pixels "issue".

[core]

SDS2104X HD    EUR 1880.00   100MHz

Now it's definitely the best buy, it already was before in terms of "ability", and now also in terms of price.

Add 235 Euro for the SDS2XHD-BND option bundle on promotion.
https://www.siglenteu.com/news-article/permanent-analysis-bundle-on-your-new-oscilloscope/#

For sure. Now we need some patience, because the distributors still have the old (higher) price.

[skander36]

Yeah whatever ... forget about ...

That's not a great way of saying "Oops, sorry, I got confused". But ok, I am happy to forget about it.

This is kind a pervert way. Everyone can see that I don't said that.
I just dont want to continue that discussion which is not going anywhere.

[2N3055]

I don't have 1000xHD to test.

But here are 800xHD images:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-review-demonstration-thread/msg5361203/#msg5361203

So it does NOT always render traces 2 pixels high. Only when noisy and values are "in between".
It does best with resolution it has.

I'm guessing that 1000xHD does the same.

And again, it is not something you even notice if you don't look for it with magnifying glass.
Really.
Not "defending" anything here, I literally had to go and verify if 2000xHD was rendering this way. I didn't know..
I'm not denying effect is there but really not something you even notice unless somebody points to it.
You literally need to look at it with magnifying glass (real or virtual).

Granted, I wear eyeglasses... So maybe people with perfect vision can spot it with naked eye at normal working distance... But not very likely.

[2N3055]

Yes, this is my opinion, too.
800X HD it's an 1000 with a smaller screen.
If you need more than 800X HD, better go to 2000X HD, significant changes (better) in all departments compared with 1000X HD. Including the one-vs-two pixels "issue".

To be fair, the 1000X HD has some additional benefits over the 800, besides the larger screen. 50 Ohm inputs, separate trigger input, another USB jack... But not enough to justify nearly twice the price, at least for me.

The 2000X HD is a much more desirable scope: full vertical resolution, higher sampling rate, support for the fully integrated logic analyser with its nice probe. But even at the new pricing it is a big step up from the 1000 series; more than I can justify for a hobby toy. But for more serious use, it seems that the 2000 series should be the choice over the 1000.

That is the reason that they have 800-1000-2000-3000 progression in 12 bit gamut....
If you don't need full set of capabilities, you can scale down towards budget that is acceptable to you.