Siglent SDS3000X HD and upgraded SDS1000X HD

[tautech]

I run a web search for the SDS3000X HD on occasion.  The latest such search turned up the attached English language datasheet.

Confirmed, that's the latest datasheet that has been shared with us.

[hpw]

I run a web search for the SDS3000X HD on occasion.  The latest such search turned up the attached English language datasheet.

Confirmed, that's the latest datasheet that has been shared with us.

A special & specific request: are there any rtHz-FFT spectrum graphs with the upcoming SDS's possible ?

Hp

[tautech]

A special & specific request: are there any rtHz-FFT spectrum graphs with the upcoming SDS's possible ?

Can't see that specifically in a SDS1000X HD however using a Math on Math formula might provide it but above my paygrade. 
One of our wizard beta testers might have a better answer.

[hpw]

A special & specific request: are there any rtHz-FFT spectrum graphs with the upcoming SDS's possible ?

Can't see that specifically in a SDS1000X HD however using a Math on Math formula might provide it but above my paygrade. 
One of our wizard beta testers might have a better answer.
[/quote]

Well, the rtHz could be done by any post FFT re-scale... see as pictures but requires some values from the SDS 

[tautech]

A special & specific request: are there any rtHz-FFT spectrum graphs with the upcoming SDS's possible ?

Can't see that specifically in a SDS1000X HD however using a Math on Math formula might provide it but above my paygrade. 
One of our wizard beta testers might have a better answer.

Well, the rtHz could be done by any post FFT re-scale... see as pictures but requires some values from the SDS 
[/quote]
What's with the  ?
I showed SDS1000X HD doesn't have this and it's the only HD model I have currently.
It's the first one I grabbed but not checked my SDS6204A yet.

Is this scaling found in analyzers ?

[hpw]

A special & specific request: are there any rtHz-FFT spectrum graphs with the upcoming SDS's possible ?

Can't see that specifically in a SDS1000X HD however using a Math on Math formula might provide it but above my paygrade. 
One of our wizard beta testers might have a better answer.

Well, the rtHz could be done by any post FFT re-scale... see as pictures but requires some values from the SDS 

What's with the  ?
I showed SDS1000X HD doesn't have this and it's the only HD model I have currently.
It's the first one I grabbed but not checked my SDS6204A yet.

Is this scaling found in analyzers ?
[/quote]

The is as it requires for any math the values as FFT bin RBW, frequency & FFT size!

To do it off load, many sampled streams are required as current and averaged streams.
Is this doable by SDS Siglent's? As to save as a single file?

This scalings is available almost on Audio Analyzers and Spectrum FFT Analyzers.

I did also googled, it showed already asked here on this forums as years ago.. Where the really limitation is the ENOB.

As your second picture shows, some dB/rtHz or Linear/rtHz build in functions to love. May ask on Siglent forum about..

[2N3055]

A special & specific request: are there any rtHz-FFT spectrum graphs with the upcoming SDS's possible ?

Can't see that specifically in a SDS1000X HD however using a Math on Math formula might provide it but above my paygrade. 
One of our wizard beta testers might have a better answer.

Well, the rtHz could be done by any post FFT re-scale... see as pictures but requires some values from the SDS 

Hi,

again one of you "rebus" questions.... It is always fun trying to figure out what the question actually is ...

What do you mean? What do you want? In simple sentences. Less drama and sarcasm and more actual question. Pretty please?

By your reaction, those that does not know better, might think this is something "normal" and "must have" analysis that any scope except this one can do...

Please educate us if you know of how many scopes that has power/voltage noise density plot capability. Brands and models.
And if they do have that capability, is it free, included by default? Or part of some advanced math/spectrum package? And how much it costs, scope and package?

Only palm face here is you abrasively expecting/demanding this from sub 1000 € as if that was not very niche and exotic thing to expect on a scope. Of any price, for that matter.

OTOH I see many other scopes not even doing plain FFT properly...

Siglent might even add this eventually to some of it's models.
We asked for it, as for many other things.
And frankly, many of things asked would take priority over this.
If they do add power/voltage noise density plot capability on inexpensive scopes, that would be industry leading practice, not something usual.
Would that be great? Sure.

But my advice would be to keep expectations real and tone less abrasive... You know, honey, vinegar ..... 

Best,

[2N3055]

The is as it requires for any math the values as FFT bin RBW, frequency & FFT size!

To do it off load, many sampled streams are required as current and averaged streams.
Is this doable by SDS Siglent's? As to save as a single file?

This scalings is available almost on Audio Analyzers and Spectrum FFT Analyzers.

I did also googled, it showed already asked here on this forums as years ago.. Where the really limitation is the ENOB.

As your second picture shows, some dB/rtHz or Linear/rtHz build in functions to love. May ask on Siglent forum about..

Aha, some specific questions..

No,  there is no capability to let scope do some kind of preprocessing you would like and then save that to single file. I don't know of any "normal" scope that does that.
Scopes are not audio analysers or SA. So what is "normal" on them is not "normal" on scopes. That might change in the future, but for now, that is the state of the art. In industry, not Siglent.
ENOB will be limitation always.
As for the last one, I guessing here you are suggesting that Siglent would add that function to Math. Yeah we can (and did ask).
There was no Log axis in FFT. We asked, it was given. With time. It takes time to do stuff..
We will see what can be done. It is up to them.

[mawyatt]

As for the last one, I guessing here you are suggesting that Siglent would add that function to Math. Yeah we can (and did ask).
There was no Log axis in FFT. We asked, it was given. With time. It takes time to do stuff..
We will see what can be done. It is up to them.

What many don't realize, having never been a critical part of a business, nor owned or operated one, is a business must be profitable over time. When a business, small, medium or large becomes totally "customer driven" they quickly run out of cash/resources because they are constantly servicing all customer requests and desires with finite resources and spiral into bankruptcy.

Successful companies like Siglent have done a superb job IMO of managing customer requests and desires while still keeping good business growth, a delicate balance between engineering, production & bean counting. And continue to produce and introduce excellent valued products, while managing customer requests with reasonable fidelity, and maintain a successful healthy growth pattern 

Let's hope they don't change a thing

Best,

[Martin72]

As I mentioned before, we've also been pretty spoiled by Siglent.
No firmware update without additional features, meanwhile people are asking for the updates, but hardly in the sense of bug fixes, but in the sense of what will we get next.
Oh I don't want them to stop...
I myself still dream of filters that "work" "deep" in the khz range, but you really have to see it that Siglent is almost alone at the top in terms of feature replenishment.
Lecroy  can do that too, but they always want to see money for it.

[2N3055]

As for the last one, I guessing here you are suggesting that Siglent would add that function to Math. Yeah we can (and did ask).
There was no Log axis in FFT. We asked, it was given. With time. It takes time to do stuff..
We will see what can be done. It is up to them.

What many don't realize, having never been a critical part of a business, nor owned or operated one, is a business must be profitable over time. When a business, small, medium or large becomes totally "customer driven" they quickly run out of cash/resources because they are constantly servicing all customer requests and desires with finite resources and spiral into bankruptcy.

Successful companies like Siglent have done a superb job IMO of managing customer requests and desires while still keeping good business growth, a delicate balance between engineering, production & bean counting. And continue to produce and introduce excellent valued products, while managing customer requests with reasonable fidelity, and maintain a successful healthy growth pattern 

Let's hope they don't change a thing

Best,

Thank you for sage and realistic comment.

I personally understand @hpw in a way. I would also like perfect instrument and have whole 300€ to pay for it. If it was possible, nobody would be happier than me.
But, alas,  it is not possible. Other permutation of price-performance combinations are possible, but that one, unfortunately, is not...

[hpw]

As for the last one, I guessing here you are suggesting that Siglent would add that function to Math. Yeah we can (and did ask).
There was no Log axis in FFT. We asked, it was given. With time. It takes time to do stuff..
We will see what can be done. It is up to them.

What many don't realize, having never been a critical part of a business, nor owned or operated one, is a business must be profitable over time. When a business, small, medium or large becomes totally "customer driven" they quickly run out of cash/resources because they are constantly servicing all customer requests and desires with finite resources and spiral into bankruptcy.

Successful companies like Siglent have done a superb job IMO of managing customer requests and desires while still keeping good business growth, a delicate balance between engineering, production & bean counting. And continue to produce and introduce excellent valued products, while managing customer requests with reasonable fidelity, and maintain a successful healthy growth pattern 

Let's hope they don't change a thing

Best,

Thank you for sage and realistic comment.

I personally understand @hpw in a way. I would also like perfect instrument and have whole 300€ to pay for it. If it was possible, nobody would be happier than me.
But, alas,  it is not possible. Other permutation of price-performance combinations are possible, but that one, unfortunately, is not...

As over decades, a simple Analog Scope gets now more and more as a completer Analyzer as PC based.  While now FFT with THD and even x-axis with Log scales & averages.

In other words, it is acquisition with a n ADC and CPU processing.

May additional specific probes & LNA amplifiers are required to deal with the input limitations as measuring PSU of ADC/DAC as Vref & ADC/DAC. It looks for or me now as 3 different LNA's are required: Ultra low 1/f frequency into mHz, middle range as 10Hz.... 5MHz, and upper RF range to 100MHz..1GHz.

So I simple need the sampled RAW data of 1. AVG to n.-AVG on the PC, to do some post processing as the DSO may do not have the required floating point mantissa and math.

So how to get x-sampled RAW data/sequences as one file or if only possible, as multiple files (grrr..).
The new SDS Siglent PC SW may help in this direction , currently I did not tested it yet.

Hp

[Martin72]

I'd better post it here so as not to produce too much offtopic in the other thread:

3034X HD is little more than 5034X but 12bit and the nice 12" display.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-scope-demoboard-from-batronix/msg5337200/#msg5337200

That would be new to me Rob, but I would be very happy if the SDS3034X HD had a 12" display.

It is no longer a secret that not only the 800X HD, but also the 1000X HD and the 3000X HD are coming.
When it was certain that the 3000 model would also be launched on the global market, I spontaneously decided to buy one.
I've already pre-ordered it, so when it arrives I'll open an explicit thread about it.
Why another scope?
I loved my SDS2000X HD, I would never be able to use it to its full potential, at least as far as my hobby projects are concerned.
But...
Once again, it was the small but subtle differences that persuaded me to spend money again.
Twice the maximum sample rate, twice the maximum bandwidth, twice the FFT memory points and the "Probus" interface were the points that persuaded me to buy it.
The color of the casing, the display and the lack of a video output are rather arguments against it.
But not so serious as not to do it.
More on this (why display) in my new thread then.
Since I ordered the SDS3034X HD, I also know its price.
And that's where it gets interesting.
"Of course" it costs more than the SDS2104X HD, but considering the price I paid for it in 2022, it's surprisingly less than you might think.
So I wonder what will happen to the old models when the new three model series are presented at the end of this month.
Will the 2000X HD series become cheaper again (it has already become about 500€ cheaper) to keep the distance?
What about the old SDS5000X?
What will happen to the SDS1000X-E when the 800 arrives?
Will people still buy an SDS2000xplus when the SDS1000X HD is available? Or the SDS2000x HD becomes much cheaper?
Questions, questions...

[maralb]

Will people still buy an SDS2000xplus when the SDS1000X HD is available?

This is exactly my dilemma....I am in the market for buying an SDS2000xplus but started to hestitate when reading the anouncement of the 1000HD..... I am waiting the first reviews and teardowns before making my move...... And very curious about your experiences with the 3000 series....you are counting the days now?!

[Martin72]

Absolutely.
I hope that the delivery date is shortened, at the beginning of January mid-March was mentioned.
Maybe I'll be lucky and the stocks will be filled earlier.
As far as SDS2000Xplus vs SDS1000X HD is concerned, I recommend taking a close look at the differences and then deciding what I need and what I don't need.
The 1000X HD has a 10" display and 12 bit resolution, but it is still a 1000X and not a 2000X.

[Performa01]

That would be new to me Rob, but I would be very happy if the SDS3034X HD had a 12" display.

It is 10.1", just like the SDS2000X series.

Once again, it was the small but subtle differences that persuaded me to spend money again.
Twice the maximum sample rate, twice the maximum bandwidth, twice the FFT memory points and the "Probus" interface were the points that persuaded me to buy it.

This is not a Probus interface, even though there should be adapters available, which support a (very) limited selection of Probus probes.

Siglent have their own active probe interface, which is called SAPbus.

Will people still buy an SDS2000xplus when the SDS1000X HD is available? Or the SDS2000x HD becomes much cheaper?

Yes, they will, because not everyone will take the 12 bits over twice the sample rate and up to 500 MHz bandwidth (actually 570).

And should the SDS2000X HD actually get much cheaper, then the price for the SDS2000X Plus would also drop accordingly.

[Martin72]

This is not a Probus interface

I know, I know - but believe me, the term keeps slipping my mind.

[2N3055]

Will people still buy an SDS2000xplus when the SDS1000X HD is available?

This is exactly my dilemma....I am in the market for buying an SDS2000xplus but started to hestitate when reading the anouncement of the 1000HD..... I am waiting the first reviews and teardowns before making my move...... And very curious about your experiences with the 3000 series....you are counting the days now?!

What are your questions about 3000XHD series?

[skander36]

That would be new to me Rob, but I would be very happy if the SDS3034X HD had a 12" display.

If the display is the same as SDS1000X-HD(most likely) you will have a 10,1" with low contrast (trying to compensate by overdriving the backlight brightness) far away from Rigol DHO1K.
Also a 8bit - ish look of the waveform compared with Rigol DHO1K 12 bit. I'm very curious if SDS3000X-HD will be better in that point.

[Martin72]

If the display quality is as good as my previous SDS2504X HD, there will be no reason to complain.
That was enough for me, it shouldn't win any beauty awards, it should work.
What use is a scope with a beautiful display if the rest is more or less rubbish.

[skander36]

If the display quality is as good as my previous SDS2504X HD, there will be no reason to complain.
That was enough for me, it shouldn't win any beauty awards, it should work.
What use is a scope with a beautiful display if the rest is more or less rubbish.

My comparison was not between rubish scopes but between two direct competitors, both pretty capable in their class.

[2N3055]

If the display quality is as good as my previous SDS2504X HD, there will be no reason to complain.
That was enough for me, it shouldn't win any beauty awards, it should work.
What use is a scope with a beautiful display if the rest is more or less rubbish.

Screen is same resolution but slightly better than 2000HXD.
It is very legible, clear and crisp.

I must not that I dislike use of AA fonts in every occasions. Design for sake of design is not good design in my opinion.

For instance, if you look at the two images by Skander36:

On Rigol, timebase data uses 4 times more screen surface, split over 3 boxes. Still, font sizes are same, and for number of points, Rigol actually uses smaller font.
Button STOP/RUN looks smeared.
Fonts on Math  channels are smaller...

I wear glasses and to me legibility is more important than AA fonts.

These "it is old fashioned" comments are Ok if design is more important than substance.

But when I use these scope all I know these fonts are clear, clean and easily readable. And to me that is only important thing.

My Keysight uses low res screen and blocky fonts and I simply don't notice that. That is the last thing that bothers me on that scope. Screen is clear and crisp and very legible. It looks old fashioned to some? Yeah, don't care. Works very well though.
And Siglent next to it look superior, with (comparatively) huge screen.

My 2 cents.

[skander36]

@2N3055, my post was not about the interface (fonts, graphics, etc). This is subjective, I understand anyone who like one or other.
It was about the phisical quality of the display and the way waveforms looks which can be done better on SDS.
I have post the images just for waveform exemplification not for contrast. You can't realize that problem for the images posted. For this I need to take photo with the real screens.

P.S. the images are taken from web interfaces. On Rigol there is a lower quality of the pciture because they choose a lower bitrate on favor of better framerate which is better than Siglent. Siglent choose a higher bitrate, having a beter quality of image, but framerate is slightly lower.

[Performa01]

Well, this is about the first time I've seen someone complain about the Display quality in a contemporary Siglent DSO.

I don't have an SDS1000X HD, but made a comparison between SDS800X HD, SDS2000X Plus and SDS2000X HD, all with the same picture and same display settings, i.e. everything set to 40%.

Of course there is a noticable difference between SDS2000X Plus and HD - the latter appears brighter and has more contrast - even too much for my taste. The SDS800X HD screen looks slightly weaker than the 2000X Plus, there I like to set everything to 50%, whereas on the 2000X HD I could easily reduce intensity and brightness even further.

Nevertheless, even the 800X HD display is crisp and clear and is perfectly readable. And I guess that's what it's all about in a DSO. I guess it's much more important to have a usable FFT, a mighty fine Bode Plotter, the option for digital channels, accurate and stable measurements, a working Sequence mode and jitter-free AC-trigger and other oddities like that...

[2N3055]

@2N3055, my post was not about the interface (fonts, graphics, etc). This is subjective, I understand anyone who like one or other.
It was about the phisical quality of the display and the way waveforms looks which can be done better on SDS.
I have post the images just for waveform exemplification not for contrast. You can't realize that problem for the images posted. For this I need to take photo with the real screens.

P.S. the images are taken from web interfaces. On Rigol there is a lower quality of the pciture because they choose a lower bitrate on favor of better framerate which is better than Siglent. Siglent choose a higher bitrate, having a beter quality of image, but framerate is slightly lower.

Thank you for clarification.

3000XHD and 2000XHD have good quality screen. It is nicely legible in very bright office at 50% backlight.
Screen on 800XHD is slightly darker, it has to be at 55-60% for similar brightness. But very crisp and clear.
Combined with anti-glare screen surface it looks superb.
I don't have 1000XHD, and new, dark 1000XHD might have same screen as 2000XHD. But I don't know.

When you do screenshot from web, Siglent does not snap it from VNC frame but saves full screen res.