Siglent SDS3000X HD and upgraded SDS1000X HD

[TopQuark]

I see 2 sides....
Yet dollars saved with not having Vid Out in low cost models benefits customers with small budgets.
One needs also consider that using a PC instead of just a dumb monitor allows for remote mouse use of the scope via the interactive webserver.

1) On the one hand, I would no longer consider a SDS3034X HD with 4000€ as low budget, where the lack of a video output was due to the cost.
Secondly, other manufacturers show that it is obviously no problem to install an hdmi output in cheap scopes.
2) Yes, the web server has its undisputed advantages, but other scopes have BOTH.

As I said, I don't need a video output, but I find it amusing how desperately siglent insists on only installing them in their really expensive models.

Exactly, I thought about getting the 3000X HD for the active probe interface and higher bandwidth. I didn't get it at the end because I feel like the screen on the 2000X HD was already a bit cramped, and there doesn't seem to be much newer or better software features beside plain bandwidth upgrade on 3000X HD. I know they have a web server on the scope for remote control, but the web server control is just so slow and unresponsive compared to the knobs or just using a mouse directly with the scope. And the web interface doesn't scale / adjust well with different browser window sizes.

I ended up just getting old Tek active probes and power supply for my active probing needs, and will probably save the money for a significantly better scope released in the future, or maybe from some other brand, if I need a scope upgrade (I don't  ).

[2N3055]

I see 2 sides....
Yet dollars saved with not having Vid Out in low cost models benefits customers with small budgets.
One needs also consider that using a PC instead of just a dumb monitor allows for remote mouse use of the scope via the interactive webserver.

1) On the one hand, I would no longer consider a SDS3034X HD with 4000€ as low budget, where the lack of a video output was due to the cost.
Secondly, other manufacturers show that it is obviously no problem to install an hdmi output in cheap scopes.
2) Yes, the web server has its undisputed advantages, but other scopes have BOTH.

As I said, I don't need a video output, but I find it amusing how desperately siglent insists on only installing them in their really expensive models.

Exactly, I thought about getting the 3000X HD for the active probe interface and higher bandwidth. I didn't get it at the end because I feel like the screen on the 2000X HD was already a bit cramped, and there doesn't seem to be much newer or better software features beside plain bandwidth upgrade on 3000X HD. I know they have a web server on the scope for remote control, but the web server control is just so slow and unresponsive compared to the knobs or just using a mouse directly with the scope. And the web interface doesn't scale / adjust well with different browser window sizes.

I ended up just getting old Tek active probes and power supply for my active probing needs, and will probably save the money for a significantly better scope released in the future, or maybe from some other brand, if I need a scope upgrade (I don't  ).

SD3000xHD has faster processor, USB3, faster networking... there are many things it brings to the table in addition to active probes and BW.
Once you try to use it, side by side, you know the difference. There are more software features.
It also have capacity to grow. It was just released. Just remember all the additions that 2000xHD received with time.

In your case, i see it as a fact that 2000xHD is a scope that already gives so much, that as a general purpose scope it is covering most of your needs.

[core]

I'm afraid I'm even more unreasonable, but I don't want to elaborate just yet

Aha..?!

Hello,

I ordered a Micsig MHO3-2504.

Best regards
egonotto

A perfect form factor for a laboratory oscilloscope. The display should be a pleasure to work with.
No need for HDMI port, but still the port is included 
I'll be very curious about your first impressions.

Everyone should own one, driven by the Siglent software ...

[core]

As I said, I don't need a video output, but I find it amusing how desperately siglent insists on only installing them in their really expensive models.

One reason could be that such a low resolution on a large screen will look a bit unpleasant if it is not scaled up to the resolution of the monitor.
The next model should bring something new here too, but it will probably come at an extra cost.

[2N3055]

Can we please stick to the relevant topic theme?
I suggest opening topic "My wet dream scope" and write fantasies there.

Topic is about what scopes in question have and not about fantasies of what will come in future...

It has display as it does, resolution as it does , it does not have external monitor connector.
Those are facts.
What will be in future? I have no clue.

But I know that "the other" scopes that have higher resolution and external monitor connector (that is, frankly,  very rarely used with most of people) have inferior software quality with many bugs, and have maybe 1/3 of capability.  And here I'm talking about SDS100xHD.

SDS3000xHD has no peer in it's price range from any brand. Any.
And from what I can see it is going to age very well..

[core]

An on topic rephrasing could be: the new SDS3000X HS and SDS1000X HD Siglent oscilloscopes are very powerful, but the 10 inch screen resolution is lagging behind. A lot ... 

[tszaboo]

Can we please stick to the relevant topic theme?
I suggest opening topic "My wet dream scope" and write fantasies there.

Topic is about what scopes in question have and not about fantasies of what will come in future...

Everyone here seems to shut down discussions. Please stop, this is a forum, made to discuss things.
Even things that you don't like.

[Martin72]

Bad news..
There are delivery delays on the part of Siglent, affecting the 1000/3000X HD models.
The new date is probably the end of March.
Good news (for me it is new):
With discount code Sig7 you'll get 7% off, on all new HD models.(valid until 15.03.)
Edit :  by Batterfly

[2N3055]

An on topic rephrasing could be: the new SDS3000X HS and SDS1000X HD Siglent oscilloscopes are very powerful, but the 10 inch screen resolution is lagging behind. A lot ... 

Well than be correct and specific.
Their what parameter of 10" screen is lagging behind?

Anti glare coating?
Resolution?
Brightens?
View angle?
Color reproduction?
Dynamic response?
Readability of numeric data ?

And also what is the standard they are lagging behind:

Keysight Infiniivision scopes of 1000 series?
R&S scopes of 1000 series?
Tektronix scopes of 1000 series?
Rigol DHO1000 series?

[2N3055]

Can we please stick to the relevant topic theme?
I suggest opening topic "My wet dream scope" and write fantasies there.

Topic is about what scopes in question have and not about fantasies of what will come in future...

Everyone here seems to shut down discussions. Please stop, this is a forum, made to discuss things.
Even things that you don't like.

I speak out of frustration, not censorship..
Nobody is shutting down any discussions.
Just open a different topic and discuss it there. Please?

There has been like 300 posts about this already.
Yes.We.Heard.There.Are.Some.People.That.Think.Siglent.Should.Have.Used.Higher.Resolution.Screen.On.New.10".Scopes.
Duly noted.

But if they want to discuss it further, please, please, make a new topic, and make a vote there if you like. Discuss it ad nauseam there. Please?

If anything I see that as sabotageing the actual discussion on relevant topic.

How about discussing that SDS1000xHD has 80% of analytic capabilites of 10000€ LeCroy?

And all we got so far:
- How shiny the screen is (while many happily buying 10000€ scopes with completely reflective screens)
- What is display resolution (it is 96 DPI). Rigol has more. Yes it does, but that is all it has. All else is hot mess.
- What is the handle made from and how it feels.. (that one was borrowed from SDS2000xHD topic but relevant here too)
- maybe altogether 10-20 posts on actual scope capabilities.

Are these scopes so perfectly understood by everybody that there are no questions connected to scope actual use and capabilities?

Questions like: " I need to measure this and this, can I do that?!

[2N3055]

Bad news..
There are delivery delays on the part of Siglent, affecting the 1000/3000X HD models.
The new date is probably the end of March.
Good news (for me it is new):
With discount code Sig7 you'll get 7% off, on all new HD models.(valid until 15.03.)
Edit :  by Batterfly

Sorry to hear about delay. Hang in there, buddy!!

[FlexibleMammoth]

I have the latent upgrade itch for the 3000x HD. Does anybody know whether there is or will be an introductory promo pack with most options again, like for the 5000x and 7000a?

Regarding the discussion directly above -
I do really miss some properties that i would have done different in the 3000x HD, but I do not see that being well received here, so i will take that discussion elsewhere.

[tautech]

I have the latent upgrade itch for the 3000x HD. Does anybody know whether there is or will be an introductory promo pack with most options again, like for the 5000x and 7000a?

Not at this time it seems:
https://int.siglent.com/info/promotions/

Regarding the discussion directly above -
I do really miss some properties that i would have done different in the 3000x HD, but I do not see that being well received here, so i will take that discussion elsewhere.

There's nowhere else as the thread I started for specifically SDS3000X HD was removed by moderators without trace or explanation. 

Report this post and ask Mods to reinstate it.

[2N3055]

I speak out of frustration, not censorship..
Nobody is shutting down any discussions.
Just open a different topic and discuss it there. Please?

There has been like 300 posts about this already.
Yes.We.Heard.There.Are.Some.People.That.Think.Siglent.Should.Have.Used.Higher.Resolution.Screen.On.New.10".Scopes.
Duly noted.

But if they want to discuss it further, please, please, make a new topic, and make a vote there if you like. Discuss it ad nauseam there. Please?

If anything I see that as sabotageing the actual discussion on relevant topic.

How about discussing that SDS1000xHD has 80% of analytic capabilites of 10000€ LeCroy?

I don't get why you see this as off-topic, frankly. It must be ok to also discuss limitations of Siglent devices on a Siglent thread. It does not take away from the fact that Siglent provides excellent performance and excellent value for money.

While screen resolution has been criticized before, I see it as a relevant topic specifically for the SDS1000 and 3000X HD:

Of topic is ad nauseam discussion how screen is is.
It has been repeated 300 times already.
With no other topics being mentioned.

If one read this, it seems like scope has 32x16 pixels resolution and it is unusable.
And scope has no functions and nothing else.

"Hey dude, do you know, does it have buttons? I don't know maan, but how about that screen, maann.."

Nobody is disputing anything. But for Heavens sake, is there nothing else to talk about?

[Antonio90]

Nobody is disputing anything. But for Heavens sake, is there nothing else to talk about?

I guess not much yet? There is next to nothing WRT teardowns, demonstrations, reviews or anything. No Scopes were sent in advance to any reviewers, the "release" date was set a month (best case scenario) before actual availability, and people are just idly chatting, loosely on topic. It looks like a forum to me.

[tautech]

Bad news..
There are delivery delays on the part of Siglent, affecting the 1000/3000X HD models.
The new date is probably the end of March.
Good news (for me it is new):
With discount code Sig7 you'll get 7% off, on all new HD models.(valid until 15.03.)
Edit :  by Batterfly

Sorry to hear this Martin, not good. 
Let's just hope you don't get too attached to that borrowed LeCroy from work. 

[core]

So let's take a break until the hardware is available?
Or will 2N3055 allow us?
Come on, I'm a big fan of 2N3055 transistors, I've made many power amps with them 
And 2N3055 is one of the valued members here 
But, so to speak, can we be more tolerant of each other?

We're talking about screen resolution. When we'll look inside, we'll talk about other things too.

From a software point of view, the quality seems much higher than the price might suggest. No doubt about it. But no one will think you can't see anything on the screen ...

[2N3055]

So let's take a break until the hardware is available?
Or will 2N3055 allow us?
Come on, I'm a big fan of 2N3055 transistors, I've made many power amps with them 
And 2N3055 is one of the valued members here 
But, so to speak, can we be more tolerant of each other?

We're talking about screen resolution. When we'll look inside, we'll talk about other things too.

From a software point of view, the quality seems much higher than the price might suggest. No doubt about it. But no one will think you can't see anything on the screen ...

No, no, by all means, discuss away...

I'm wrong. I'm in a wrong place..
Please discuss all you want, repeat anything any time you want.. Flowers, butterflies.. Whatever.
It is not my place to try to keep it in any direction..
It is my misunderstanding of purpose of these discussions that made me confused.

There isn't any purpose. People simply chat here with no particular aim. Shooting breeze.
I apologize.
I won't bother you guys anymore.

[rf-loop]

So let's take a break until the hardware is available?
Or will 2N3055 allow us?
Come on, I'm a big fan of 2N3055 transistors, I've made many power amps with them 
And 2N3055 is one of the valued members here 
But, so to speak, can we be more tolerant of each other?

We're talking about screen resolution. When we'll look inside, we'll talk about other things too.

From a software point of view, the quality seems much higher than the price might suggest. No doubt about it. But no one will think you can't see anything on the screen ...

If we talk screen resolution, then we need also talk about human eye resolution.
The discrimination ability of the eye. Resolution perhaps 2 arc minutes at best. So...

Naturally we can take screen image and magnify it and so on... but in normal working .. on lab table.  Really much more important thigs than counting pixels and  images beauty. Much more important things... perhaps if I do not need any real work with scopes then I perhaps have time to look and think if picture is nice and beauty.

[DaneLaw]

Can we please stick to the relevant topic theme?
I suggest opening topic "My wet dream scope" and write fantasies there.

Topic is about what scopes in question have and not about fantasies of what will come in future...

Everyone here seems to shut down discussions. Please stop, this is a forum, made to discuss things.
Even things that you don't like.

Of course, let people debate the pro / cons of a given instrument, and analyze possible shortcomings that clearly will vary from one to the next, depending on what each of us prioritizes and our use cases.
The whole purpose of a forum like this, is certainly not to inflate the books/sale on a given Chinese company by sugarcoating the less-than-ideal specs on a given instrument.
10.1" with just 600p on a modern newly released scope in this price bracket, no wonder some see that as a con.

[temperance]

I hope the SDS3000X HD has the same aluminum handle so we can have discussion about that part for the next month or so.

The complete X HD series are fookin good instruments. The screen resolution is more than good enough (Yes I got one of those and its an excellent machine). Or are you boys and girls counting pixels to see how many µV something wiggles? No you don't. And if you want, there is always the zoom tool which combined with low noise converters outperform any scope I ever had. (I paid the price of a small car for a 4CH 500 MHz TEK long ago. It's now standing there doing nothing) Those who complain about the screen resolution never had to measure anything specific I guess.

20 years ago you couldn't even buy a descent 0.01 Hz to 100 Mhz network analyzer for less than 50K without options. An old used to dead instrument could be had for nothing less than 10...20K. Today you basically get one for free. But people with no real ideas must find something which amounts to nothing to cry about.

Anyhow, back to the handle. I have a strange urge to write a page-long review about The Handle. Maybe I should make a movie about Scope Handles? Anyone interested if the resolution is high enough? But maybe I didn't take my pillz this morning.

[2N3055]

If we talk screen resolution, then we need also talk about human eye resolution.
The discrimination ability of the eye. Resolution perhaps 2 arc minutes at best. So...

0.47 arc minutes (or 28 arc seconds) is the literature value, https://www.swift.ac.uk/about/files/vision.pdf. That translates to 0.08 mm at a 60 cm distance. Pixels on the Siglent 10" screen are about 0.22 mm wide, nearly three times as large.

Edit: Fiexd the link.

From the document:


Highest resolution perceivable pixels: 28 seconds of arc.

Several physical factors limit the highest spatial frequencies that can be perceived by the human eye. The diffraction limit of the pupil, the foveal cone spacing, neural trace and physiological tests all agree on a maximum perceived frequency of approximately one cycle per arcminute (half arc-minute pixels). This is under optimal (but non-vernier†) conditions, including
100% contrast. While not quite directly comparable, so-called “20/20” vision represents detecting image features twice as large.

Variable resolution: 1/2@±1°, 1/4@±2°, 1/8@±5°, 1/16@±12°
This high resolution, however, applies only to the central 2° of vision. Outside of this, the cone
spacing and measured preceptorial acuity drop off even faster than the optical limits. In most
textbooks (see [2], page 60), this drop off is plotted as a sharp cusp. However, this representation does not do justice to how small the high spatial frequency perception region of the visual
field is. Figure 1a plots an alternate visualization of this data onto the surface of a unit sphere:
which portions of the 4π steradian field of view are perceived at what resolution. There are 5
false color bands, each corresponding to a factor of two less perceptorial resolution. Figure 1b
is a zoom into the central region of the sphere. The center most green region corresponds to the
central ±1° of the fovea. The purple from there to ±2°, red to ±5°, orange to ±12°, and yellow
to the optical edge caused by the human face. The white represents the non-visible regions.
This optical edge has a complex shape, and varies both in the individual and the literature. For
our calculations, we used the data of [3], where the maximum field of view varied horizontally
from -59° to +110°, and vertically from -70° to +56°. To show both sides of this more than
180° field, two unit spheres are shown, one for a right eye and one for a symmetrically reversed
left eye
Thus if the direction of gaze is known, across the entire visual field, the human visual system
can perceive approximately only one fifteenth the visual detail that would be discernible if
foveal resolutions were available for the entire field


This discussion is equally fruitless and useless as discussion between two gamer kids about difference between 414 and 432 frames per second.


At 60cm distance (good estimate by the way) pixel is not discernible by naked eye.

Again, unlike most of people here discussing this useless bullshit, I have the scope for two years.
No, you cannot see pixels with naked eye.

[KungFuJosh]

I know they have a web server on the scope for remote control, but the web server control is just so slow and unresponsive compared to the knobs or just using a mouse directly with the scope. And the web interface doesn't scale / adjust well with different browser window sizes.

That's a weird take. I've found the web interface to be nearly real time, with no real perceptible lag. I've never had any issues with it. I think if you're experiencing lag issues, it's a network problem, not a scope problem. And I only have an SDS2504XP, which I assume is slower than the newer / higher level HD models.

[KungFuJosh]

At 60cm distance (good estimate by the way) pixel is not discernible by naked eye.

Again, unlike most of people here discussing this useless bullshit, I have the scope for two years.
No, you cannot see pixels with naked eye.

Well, I don't know about you, but I wear glasses. 🥸😉😉

[Martin72]

Display.....As always, everything is relative.
Anyone who comes from something like this (picture) will be happy to look at a 1024x600 screen.