Siglent SDS3000X HD and upgraded SDS1000X HD

[slugrustle]

The CS320A-FRA is a 100MS/s 14-bit scope.  Nice thing is, its integrated signal generator is isolated / floating so it doesn't need an injection transformer.  I got it because of the higher bit depth and because the software that comes with it has dedicated modes for frequency response and related analyses.  I've found it to work well.

To be honest, I've never tried Siglent's bode plot. 

[kripton2035]

I don't understand those having several scopes, but I know it's very common, especially on eevblog. I must be the weird one ? 

I bought a siglent 2000HD last year and I'm very happy with it. anymay I still have a hameg 407 for the component tester, and a metrix 8042 for the differential probes

[slugrustle]

I guess it could happen that the same person have needs for very different scopes, but that would probably be professionals, and i expected this to be rare. I mean, once you got one of those expensive scopes, is there really anything you couldn't do with them ?

The combination of 9µV RMS noise floor and 16 bit depth in the picoscope 4262 is pretty special.  I don't think a very high end scope could do the same sorts of things because high end scopes tend to emphasize speed.  The 4262 has 5MHz bandwidth, lol.

I looked around a long time for any sort of instrument that could do spectrum analysis at low frequency with a low noise floor and wide dynamic range.  They don't make spectrum analyzers like that anymore; everything is specified at 9kHz and up with 50Ω inputs.  So while I got this as a second, "special" scope, I really mostly use it as a spectrum analyzer in FFT mode.  And maybe that kind of proves your point, if you were thinking about time domain type applications for a scope.

[egonotto]

Hello,

I wonder if you can get close to a Picoscope 4262 with an SDS3000X HD with ERES and filter?

Best regards
egonotto

[2N3055]

I guess it could happen that the same person have needs for very different scopes, but that would probably be professionals, and i expected this to be rare. I mean, once you got one of those expensive scopes, is there really anything you couldn't do with them ?

The combination of 9µV RMS noise floor and 16 bit depth in the picoscope 4262 is pretty special.  I don't think a very high end scope could do the same sorts of things because high end scopes tend to emphasize speed.  The 4262 has 5MHz bandwidth, lol.

I looked around a long time for any sort of instrument that could do spectrum analysis at low frequency with a low noise floor and wide dynamic range.  They don't make spectrum analyzers like that anymore; everything is specified at 9kHz and up with 50Ω inputs.  So while I got this as a second, "special" scope, I really mostly use it as a spectrum analyzer in FFT mode.  And maybe that kind of proves your point, if you were thinking about time domain type applications for a scope.

Yep.

That is why I also bought 4262. Nothing else like it for low frequencies.

Hello,

I wonder if you can get close to a Picoscope 4262 with an SDS3000X HD with ERES and filter?

Best regards
egonotto

You can't.  You can get better than most 12 bit scopes, but you cannot cheat physics and math..
Both Performa and myself published some measurements before...

EDIT:

on 1ms/div:
2000xHD with ERES3 I can get 20uV Stdev. noise floor
6000 H12 with ERES 4 I can get 25uV Stdev.

[orzel]

The combination of 9µV RMS noise floor and 16 bit depth in the picoscope 4262 is pretty special.  I don't think a very high end scope could do the same sorts of things because high end scopes tend to emphasize speed.  The 4262 has 5MHz bandwidth, lol.

Well, clearly a very very special case !

(this "sounds" like you're dealing with sound-type frequencies, aren't you ?)

[Martin72]

Since it will still take a while with my 3000X HD, I took a look at the options at Batronix...
I have only just realized that, unlike the 2000X HD, the 3000 does not have an integrated frequency generator...
So it's clear which license I don't need.
All others are within the usual range, except for one license, the PA...
SDS1000HD-PA 355,81€
SDS2000HD-PA 402,22€
SDS3000HD-PA 1010,31€ 
Question to the siglent specialists: Why ?!
Does the PA on the 3000X HD have more functions?
As I said, the others are reasonably priced, with the exception of the upgrade from 350Mhz to 1Ghz, which will be out of reach for me at just over 4000€.

[slugrustle]

(this "sounds" like you're dealing with sound-type frequencies, aren't you ?)

Hahaha, well done.  Yes, sound type frequencies and a bit higher.  Latest project is signal chain for the feedback signals in a power converter.  It's interesting that a lot of feedback control systems run with sound type frequencies.  I've occasionally had the thought to hook headphones up to these signals and listen to what happens in various operating conditions (startup, load step, etc.), but I've never done it.

[egonotto]

Hello,

I must apologize to 2N3055 and slugrustle.

The Picoscope 4262 used to have a demo board function. That was before May 2016.
There were sometimes spikes in the triangle waveform. Good for learning advanced trigger.

But after my careless and hasty report, this useful function was removed. I am sorry.

Best regards
egonotto

[baldurn]

Since it will still take a while with my 3000X HD, I took a look at the options at Batronix...
I have only just realized that, unlike the 2000X HD, the 3000 does not have an integrated frequency generator...
So it's clear which license I don't need.
All others are within the usual range, except for one license, the PA...
SDS1000HD-PA 355,81€
SDS2000HD-PA 402,22€
SDS3000HD-PA 1010,31€ 
Question to the siglent specialists: Why ?!
Does the PA on the 3000X HD have more functions?
As I said, the others are reasonably priced, with the exception of the upgrade from 350Mhz to 1Ghz, which will be out of reach for me at just over 4000€.

I was expecting that you would hack this thing and unlock it all for free?

[egonotto]

Hello,

In my opinion, a video () from Batterfly.com contains misleading information about the sampling rate of the SDS3000X HD.
One picture shows a comparison of the SDS1000X HD and SDS3000X HD. There the SDS1000X HD is specified with 2 GSa/s and the SDS3000X HD with 4 GSa/s.
The SDS3000X HD should be specified as 2 * 4 GSa/s.

Best regards
egonotto

[2N3055]

Hello,

In my opinion, a video  from Batterfly.com contains misleading information about the sampling rate of the SDS3000X HD.
One picture shows a comparison of the SDS1000X HD and SDS3000X HD. There the SDS1000X HD is specified with 2 GSa/s and the SDS3000X HD with 4 GSa/s.
The SDS3000X HD should be specified as 2 * 4 GSa/s.

Best regards
egonotto

You are correct, it has 2x 4GS/s ADC.  But they speak about sampling rate in general, so they said it that way. It can also be misunderstood that it has 4x4GS/s ADC ... 
It would be prefered to be more clear, I agree.. But that is only trailer video.. Datasheet is for details anyways..

[tautech]

The SDS3000X HD should be specified as 2 * 4 GSa/s.

SDS10004X-E = 2x 1 GSa/s
SDS2000X Plus, 2000X HD = 2x 2 GSa/s
SDS5000X = 2x 5 GSa/s

Note also each ADC has its own stated memory support.....totalling 2x what is specified for the model.

[tautech]

I would also challenge the "100 MPts/ch" and "400 MPts/ch" claim around 0:19 in the video. That's the total storage capacity for all channels combined, right?

And is the Bode plot around the 1:00 minute mark real time?! Showing that process accelerated would feel a bit like cheating.

2s later it's shown real time......there's a lot squeezed into a 2 minute vid.
Defpom spent a hour on my SDS814X HD and didn't get into the real nitty gritty of what it can do.

[egonotto]

Note also each ADC has its own stated memory support.....totalling 2x what is specified for the model.

Hello,

This is different with the SDS3000X HD than with the SDS2000X HD, for example. The 400 MSa is the entire memory. In contrast, the SDS2000X HD has 2 * 200 MSa and the SDS3000X HD has 1 * 400 MSa.

Best regards
egonotto

[2N3055]

I would also challenge the "100 MPts/ch" and "400 MPts/ch" claim around 0:19 in the video. That's the total storage capacity for all channels combined, right?

It is not a "claim". Nothing to "challenge".
SDS3000xHD supports 400MPts/200MPts/100MPts in 1/2/3(4) channels combination.
As I said that is short "trailer" video.. Not detailed, 2 hour documentary on the scope.
Read datasheet for details...

[Martin72]

Do you want to buy a 3000X HD now?

[egonotto]

The SDS3000X HD should be specified as 2 * 4 GSa/s.

SDS10004X-E = 2x 1 GSa/s
SDS2000X Plus, 2000X HD = 2x 2 GSa/s
SDS5000X = 2x 5 GSa/s

Note also each ADC has its own stated memory support.....totalling 2x what is specified for the model.

Hello,

the datasheet of the SDS3000X HD clearly states that there are a total of 400 MSa. But perhaps there is a mistake in the data sheet and it is 2 * 400 MSa.
The error could come from the SDS800X HD and SDS1000X HD.
I think the probability of such an error is very small, but I would be happy if the SDS3000X HD had 2 * 400 MSa.

Best regards
egonotto

PS: The datasheet of the R&S MXO4 or MXO5 had a much greater error (4 TSa segmented memory)

[tautech]

the datasheet of the SDS3000X HD clearly states that there are a total of 400 MSa. But perhaps there is a mistake in the data sheet and it is 2 * 400 MSa.

Actually the spec description has changed for the better IMO and is less likely to cause confusion.
From the datasheet:

Memory depth (Max.)
400 Mpts/ch (interleaving mode: single-channel), 200 Mpts/ch (interleaving mode: dual-channel), 100 Mpts/ch (non-interleaving mode)

3 modes; single channel, dual channel (1 on each ADC) and all channels active, dividing down the total 400 Mpts available.

[2N3055]

It is not a "claim". Nothing to "challenge".
SDS3000xHD supports 400MPts/200MPts/100MPts in 1/2/3(4) channels combination.

Come on. It must be possible to point out a stupid mistake Siglent made without several White Knights coming to their rescue on this forum. The "/ch" means "per channel". It is not "400 MPts/ch" if that applies only to a single channel. Just leave out the "/ch" bit and it's a correct statement.

Free beer for our grand opening -- one pint per person!
(*) Only applies for a single person.

Who are we kidding?

What didn't you understand?
That is a quick video to introduce the fact that 2 new scopes exist..
Not a 2 hour documentary that discusses details..
You are nitpicking.

Are you going to throw tantrums every time anyone does not explain everything in details?
I refuse to speak with you anymore until you provide detailed CV and a treatise on effect of quantum entanglements on orbit of Jupiter ....

Joking. Just for clarification.

[2N3055]

The SDS3000X HD should be specified as 2 * 4 GSa/s.

SDS10004X-E = 2x 1 GSa/s
SDS2000X Plus, 2000X HD = 2x 2 GSa/s
SDS5000X = 2x 5 GSa/s

Note also each ADC has its own stated memory support.....totalling 2x what is specified for the model.

Hello,

the datasheet of the SDS3000X HD clearly states that there are a total of 400 MSa. But perhaps there is a mistake in the data sheet and it is 2 * 400 MSa.
The error could come from the SDS800X HD and SDS1000X HD.
I think the probability of such an error is very small, but I would be happy if the SDS3000X HD had 2 * 400 MSa.

Best regards
egonotto

PS: The datasheet of the R&S MXO4 or MXO5 had a much greater error (4 TSa segmented memory)

That is not a mistake. 400/200/100MPts.
Not that that is small, mind you.

Keysight 3000A/T/G 4000A/G have "large memory" of total 2x4MPts 4x2MPts (an that halved in run and halved again when MSO is active. so worst case 512kpts)

[Martin72]

I was expecting that you would hack this thing and unlock it all for free?

The Scope costs just over €4000 and has the following options:

SDS3000HD-16LA 474,81€
SDS3000HD-FG  355,81€
SDS3000HD-PA 1010,31€
SDS3000HD-1553B 391,51€
SDS3000HD-CANFD 391,51€
SDS3000HD-FlexRay 391,51€
SDS3000HD-I2S  391,51€
SDS3000HD-Manch  391,51€
SDS3000HD-SENT 391,51€
SDS3000HD-ARINC 677,11€

Do you need them all?
If I look at the list now, then just 2 options would currently be interesting and useful for me.
And now, hand on heart, who feels the same way?

[egonotto]

Hello,

I still think the probability of such a "memory" error is very small, but the manual on page 63 says so:
"Under  the  full  Memory  Depth,  SDS3000X  HD  can  still  operate  at  full  speed  sampling  at
timebases <= 10 ms/div which provides high resolution captures for long time duration events."

If you use ch1 and ch3 with 200 MSa then you get only 2 GSa/s.

So there is definitely a mistake in the user manual. I just hope that the above sentence is correct. But as I said, it's a very small hope. A spark of hope.

Best regards
egonotto

[tv84]

I'm not asking for an extra chapter in the video. At 00:19, simply don't write in big fat letters "400 MPts/ch", but write in equally fat letters "400 MPts". How would this make the 2-minute video any longer or more difficult to grasp?

Why such a fuss? Why can't you interpret that "ch" as the divider of the MPts? So, you'll get in a specific channel the 400 MPts divided by the number of active channels.

The "stupid mistake" would be much bigger if you just said "400 MPts" in fat letters because that would imply that you would ALWAYS have 400 MPts in any circunstance.

[egonotto]

Hello,

in the video from Batterfly.com is at time 0:19
Memory Depth 100 Mpts/ch and 400 Mpts/ch.
I think ebastler rightly criticizes this.
The data sheet of the SDS7000X HD shows the standard: 500 Mpts/ch. Would you be satisfied if you bought an SDS7000X HD and only got 125 Mpts with four channels?

Best regards
egonotto