Siglent SDS2104X Plus (100MHz) vs Keysight DSOX1204G 70MHz vs Rigol MSO5074

[Martin72]

That sounds more dramatic by reading as it is in practice.

[nctnico]

Perhaps the Micsig TO1104 or STO1104C would be a good fit.

We recommend Micsig TO1104 Plus if you are looking for a mobile oscilloscope or if you would like to have a touch oscilloscope. Compared to the desktop oscilloscopes like the Rigol DS1000Z series, the measurement technology and the range of functions of the Micsig devices cannot yet keep up.

I don't know what the person was on when he/she wrote that but it must have been the stuff that gives people a severe black-out. It is utter and complete nonsense. Feature wise the MicSig is on par with any 'desktop' oscilloscope in the same price range and certainly above the Rigol 1000Z.  For starters the Rigol 1000Z's hardware platform is severely outdated.

[jimjam]

OK I've ordered the Siglent SDS2104X+. Also "ordered" a logic probe made by TK https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/msg3079002/#msg3079002. Thanks everyone for all the input! I hope I won't be disappointed. Looking forward to my new toy!

[martinot]

And then Dave had to put aside his KS as it didn't come with free decodes like SDS2104X Plus does. 

https://youtu.be/E81hlwciXJU?t=121

Not relevant for people buying new scopes today. All new scopes in the 1000x-series comes with free serial decodes.

https://www.keysight.com/en/pcx-2759552/infiniivision-1000-x-series-oscilloscopes?nid=-32110.0.00&cc=GB&lc=eng

I know your a Siglent sales person, but you should not be dishonest about the competition.

[martinot]

Perhaps the Micsig TO1104 or STO1104C would be a good fit. The first is a touch-screen only model, the latter has knobs. These have a big 8" 4:3 800x600 screen, have solid firmware and can run on batteries as well. These models are useful as both a bench top and portable oscilloscope.

I only found the TO1104 in an Australian webshop. Maybe they can order the STO series as well.
https://emona.com.au/products/electronic-test-measure/oscilloscopes/to-1104.html

Another option is to buy directly from MicSig through their Aliexpress factory store:
https://micsig.nl.aliexpress.com/store/1293611

Good idea and suggestion.

I think the Micsig looks extremly nice and really pack a punch for being both stationary and also portable. Myself I look at this STO1104C Plus (battery included):
https://www.banggood.com/sv/Micsig-STO1104C-Digital-Smart-Oscilloscope-100MHz-4CH-Handheld-Oscilloscope-Automotive-Scopemeter-Oscilloscope-p-1618226.html?DCC=GB&currency=EUR&ID=6285165&cur_warehouse=CZ

Seems like a much better deal than the other cheap Chinese brands (Rigol, Siglent, Atten, etc.).

Personally I am of more and more for either buying a desktop only scope from a proper brand, with professional made and tested software and interface, like Keysight or R&S (and others), or flexibility of a portable+stationary scope like the Micsig one. You probably get lower quality (especially on software side) like the other Chine pure players, but on the other hand a great flexibility of possibility to go portable when you want or need.

[martinot]

Siglent, hacked or not has a lot more features (and also bugs) than KS, but it cannot do good waveform updates per second. And if you add measurements, it pauses with deterministic interval to do the calculations stopping screen refreshes

Exactly. One reason to go for western designed scopes (almost all are produced in Chine/Asia) is less bugs, better user interface, and better software/hardware for handling wave form updates.

For me it's Keysight, R&S for quality, or Micsig. If I go pure Chinese, I might as well get the great portability and flexibility. Rigol/Siglent; you get neither thing (as I see it).

[nctnico]

Just to note: MicSig is pretty adamant at releasing well tested firmware. They are certainly not a hit & run company.

[tautech]

And then Dave had to put aside his KS as it didn't come with free decodes like SDS2104X Plus does. 

https://youtu.be/E81hlwciXJU?t=121

Not relevant for people buying new scopes today. All new scopes in the 1000x-series comes with free serial decodes.

https://www.keysight.com/en/pcx-2759552/infiniivision-1000-x-series-oscilloscopes?nid=-32110.0.00&cc=GB&lc=eng

I know your a Siglent sales person, but you should not be dishonest about the competition.

Did you watch the video to really witness what happened and listen to what Dave said ?
I think not ! 

[TK]

And then Dave had to put aside his KS as it didn't come with free decodes like SDS2104X Plus does. 

https://youtu.be/E81hlwciXJU?t=121

Not relevant for people buying new scopes today. All new scopes in the 1000x-series comes with free serial decodes.

https://www.keysight.com/en/pcx-2759552/infiniivision-1000-x-series-oscilloscopes?nid=-32110.0.00&cc=GB&lc=eng

I know your a Siglent sales person, but you should not be dishonest about the competition.

Did you watch the video to really witness what happened and listen to what Dave said ?
I think not ! 

It is exactly what martinot said, Dave does not have the license for serial decoding so he switched to the siglent, but in one of his videos he mentioned that his first choice is always KS.  Now all 1000X series includes serial decoding, even the low cost EDUX series.

[martinot]

Just to note: MicSig is pretty adamant at releasing well tested firmware. They are certainly not a hit & run company.

Thanks. I am warming up more and more to the Micsig scopes. Will install some NMEA2K hardware on my boat this summer, and perfect to have a good portable scope with CAN-bus decoding. I am seriously thinking about the STO1104C. Do you know what the difference it is between this C-model and the same ending in E?

[martinot]

And then Dave had to put aside his KS as it didn't come with free decodes like SDS2104X Plus does. 

https://youtu.be/E81hlwciXJU?t=121

Not relevant for people buying new scopes today. All new scopes in the 1000x-series comes with free serial decodes.

https://www.keysight.com/en/pcx-2759552/infiniivision-1000-x-series-oscilloscopes?nid=-32110.0.00&cc=GB&lc=eng

I know your a Siglent sales person, but you should not be dishonest about the competition.

Did you watch the video to really witness what happened and listen to what Dave said ?
I think not ! 

It is exactly what martinot said, Dave does not have the license for serial decoding so he switched to the siglent, but in one of his videos he mentioned that his first choice is always KS.  Now all 1000X series includes serial decoding, even the low cost EDUX series.

Exactly.

It is a little dishonest (IMO) by Siglent sales people to imply that it is not included, when it clearly is today.

In my personal opinion it is bad enough by sales people to constantly talk trash about the competition (makes them look insecure about their own products), but even worse when its not true what they say (either by incompetence, or by purpose).

[Martin72]

Fact one, thread title was siglent sds2k+ vs keysight dso1204 70 mhz vs rigol mso 5k.

Fact two, the siglent offers all the basic decoder functions for free (rigol don´t.).

Fact three, the keysight can´t compete to the rigol or siglent what technical specs concerns.

And you talking about.....what excactly ? About sales people ?!

[nctnico]

Fact three, the keysight can´t compete to the rigol or siglent what technical specs concerns.

I don't agree with this because you are not taking the use cases into account. There is more to an oscilloscope than just the specs!

[TK]

Fact three, the keysight can´t compete to the rigol or siglent what technical specs concerns.

I don't agree with this because you are not taking the use cases into account. There is more to an oscilloscope than just the specs!

And specs lie, a lot.  They are written by marketing people.  There is no way to get 200,000wfm/s on a Siglent, you cannot use 200Mpts of sample memory at all timebase settings... serial decoding is slow... last setting power on function does not work (you need to set serial decoding and serial trigger settings every time you turn off and back on... full of BS

[tautech]

And specs lie, a lot.  They are written by marketing people.

Design engineers actually.

There is no way to get 200,000wfm/s on a Siglent

Correct, not one model claims 200k WFPS.

you cannot use 200Mpts of sample memory at all timebase settings

Correct, to think you can indicates you didn't RTFM correctly or don't understand Siglent/LeCroy and Pico memory management strategies.

last setting power on function does not work (you need to set serial decoding and serial trigger settings every time you turn off and back on

Correct, reported as a trigger settings bug.

[TK]

And specs lie, a lot.  They are written by marketing people.

Design engineers actually.

There is no way to get 200,000wfm/s on a Siglent

Correct, not one model claims 200k WFPS.

you cannot use 200Mpts of sample memory at all timebase settings

Correct, to think you can indicates you didn't RTFM correctly or don't understand Siglent/LeCroy and Pico memory management strategies.

last setting power on function does not work (you need to set serial decoding and serial trigger settings every time you turn off and back on

Correct, reported as a trigger settings bug.

Design engineers... you must be kidding, right?
Sorry, not 200,000wfm/s... I confused with a real scope spec... only 120,000wfm/s per spec on the Siglent, actual real world 2,000wfm/s with lots of dead time in between.
And I want all 200Mpts used in a single capture, if the scope gives me the option to specify it in a menu, not segmented or history memory mode.

[tautech]

And I want all 200Mpts used in a single capture, if the scope gives me the option to specify it in a menu,

You can however not at the timebase you might want.
RTFM and get to learn how your scope works....much like a LeCroy or Pico. Study the info right there on the display and use the scope to best effect accordingly. This is why this info is displayed, to let the user make informed decisions that will be suit their needs.
It's a different strategy to many other scopes and no less powerful.
Capture slow and zoom in or use Zoom and work within the zoomed window.
 

not segmented or history memory mode.

Are special modes related to all the available memory but don't dictate how you would use your scope but the History buffer is always being replenished in the background.

Word is Siglent are to look at adding full user selected mem depth into captures in addition to the current capture strategy.
It is not high priority as existing methods to capture at full memory depth is a long standing adequate capture solution.

[martinot]

Fact one, thread title was siglent sds2k+ vs keysight dso1204 70 mhz vs rigol mso 5k.

Fact two, the siglent offers all the basic decoder functions for free (rigol don´t.).

Fact three, the keysight can´t compete to the rigol or siglent what technical specs concerns.

And you talking about.....what excactly ? About sales people ?!

You miss a lot of facts in your reading of the posts in the thread. I try to take it slow and short:

• Fact #1: The DSO1204 (as you reference) comes with free serial decoding as standard. [Ref *1]
  
• Fact #2: Siglent sales people here implies (by incompetence, or by lying) that it does not. [Ref *2]

Please let me know if you would like me to elaborate on any of these facts (or if it still something that is unclear for you - will be happy to assist).


References:

Ref 1: https://www.keysight.com/gb/en/assets/7018-06411/data-sheets/5992-3484.pdf
"Serial protocol analysis Standard : I²C, SPI, UART/RS-232, CAN, LIN"

Ref 2: tautech in message: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2104x-plus-(100mhz)-vs-keysight-dsox1204g-70mhz/msg3089390/#msg3089390

[tautech]

And then Dave had to put aside his KS as it didn't come with free decodes like SDS2104X Plus does. 

https://youtu.be/E81hlwciXJU?t=121

Not relevant for people buying new scopes today. All new scopes in the 1000x-series comes with free serial decodes.

https://www.keysight.com/en/pcx-2759552/infiniivision-1000-x-series-oscilloscopes?nid=-32110.0.00&cc=GB&lc=eng

I know your a Siglent sales person, but you should not be dishonest about the competition.

Did you watch the video to really witness what happened and listen to what Dave said ?
I think not ! 

It is exactly what martinot said, Dave does not have the license for serial decoding so he switched to the siglent, but in one of his videos he mentioned that his first choice is always KS.  Now all 1000X series includes serial decoding, even the low cost EDUX series.

Exactly.

It is a little dishonest (IMO) by Siglent sales people to imply that it is not included, when it clearly is today.

Dishonest NO, I repeat NO but ignorant of the fact KS are now offering Decode as standard.

Now you might like to ponder on why they now do.....maybe to compete with recent competition. 

[mawyatt]

Been following the various scope types, as well as the power supplies and AWGs on other threads. Good information and nice to see actual users comments.

Is the Siglent SDS2102X Plus (2 channel) upgradable like the 2104X Plus?

Best

[Martin72]

Hi,

I guess yes (except the 500Mhz bandwith I think).
But what in hell you want with 2-ch only ?! 

[tautech]

Been following the various scope types, as well as the power supplies and AWGs on other threads. Good information and nice to see actual users comments.

Is the Siglent SDS2102X Plus (2 channel) upgradable like the 2104X Plus?

Best

If you're just needing BW and not all the fruits of the Plus models maybe the SDS2202X-E might be of interest.

[mawyatt]

I like the 10 bit "Hi Rez" feature, also the larger screens of this series. Of course 4 channels is better than 2, but costs more!! I'm also interested in an the AWG and PS, although these are not as important as the scope. I have a couple repaired Tektronix 2465s, and an older LeCroy "digital" scope, but wanted something I could do some serious signal analysis with including FFTs. The idea of being able to "capture" a complex waveform and then pass in on to the AWG for reproduction is interesting, as well as the Bode plots.

There are so many options, mostly all good from various sources, it's hard to make a choice. In my days when employed it was simply Tek scopes, Fluke or HP meters and everything else HP. Now on a home brew budget, this isn't reasonable unless you get older "surplus" equipment and repair like we've done. Still think the old Tektronix 2465 types scopes are the best analog scopes ever, and the old HP 34401A and it's modern version the Keysight 34465A are the best bench DVMs available, but with the lower end digital scopes there are so many options. Same goes for the AWG and PS options. Must be fun for a younger engineer with all these options available.

Anyway, thanks for the reply and info.

Also like to hear options from valid sources regarding AWG and PS, but that's for another thread.

Best,

[tv84]

Hi,

I guess yes (except the 500Mhz bandwith I think).
But what in hell you want with 2-ch only ?! 

Why not? I don't see any reason why it won't go to 500 MHz on one channel.

[Martin72]

Hm, you might be right as I don´t know, if there is one ADC per channel avaible on the two channel model.
When they use only one ADC for both channel, then 500Mhz won´t be possible.