Siglent SDS2000X Plus

[jemangedeslolos]

We must not exaggerate

It isn´t, as I got access to new lecroy scopes of the upper class, had the rigol 5000 and could compare - But of course, you´re right, I´ve forgot the 5K.
This is truly the next level.

It's better like that

[Martin72]

It is under the SDS3000 or Lecroy WS3000, which is funny, a higher number in the model name means a higher "position", normally.

[tautech]

It is under the SDS3000 or Lecroy WS3000, which is funny, a higher number in the model name means a higher "position", normally.

Superseded by SDS3000X. 

[Martin72]

Oh, did I forget the "X" in the series ? 

[Martin72]

Martin72, weren't you the one who bought a rigid case for transporting the scope? Do you have a reference?

Yes it was me and this thing is rock-solid...I´ll search for it, then post it.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/msg2974750/#msg2974750

Amazon:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/msg2954846/#msg2954846 

(not the same size, choose the next size)

[jemangedeslolos]

Thank you very much Martin 

[tautech]

Oh, did I forget the "X" in the series ? 

Yep, similar but 2 different models. SDS3000 and 3000X or WS3000, WS3000Z IIRC.

[ci11]

Howard,

As usual, your tests tell the truth - thank you!

I have a different question: I have tried many scopes looking for the lowest noise floor and triggering prowess, especially when dealing with very low frequencies - down to 10Hz. After testing multiple RTB with their 10-bit ADCs for their nice FFT capabilities, nearly all of them struggle to reliably trigger on 20Hz at <1mV. In fact, the built-in counter went haywire. The DSOX3014A quite easily locks and triggers onto the same signal but its FFT is very dated and not really usable. Please see attached screenshots.

Would you mind running the same test on your SDS2504X Plus at 10-bits: 10Hz and 20Hz, <1mV sine? All BWL and filters can be in. Thanks!

Steve

[maginnovision]

On the RTB did you try using HF reject and Noise reject options for trigger? Also might try to check out the threshold settings on the channel and using AC coupling to make sure no DC offset is affecting measurements(similar to what you show on the keysight). You appear to have some clipping as well so that may be affecting things.

[ci11]

On the RTB did you try using HF reject and Noise reject options for trigger? Also might try to check out the threshold settings on the channel and using AC coupling to make sure no DC offset is affecting measurements(similar to what you show on the keysight). You appear to have some clipping as well so that may be affecting things.

If I remember correctly, I used every trick in the book to make the RTB2004 sing, including HF reject. These tests were repeated on several RTBs over a one-year period with no significant difference in performance. On an empirical basis, the KS did a better job with the signal, but the RTB's FFT is far better. I am hoping the SDS is indeed a step forward from these and offer a viable one-stop shop solution.

[maginnovision]

It'll have to wait until the weekend if I have time but I'll give it a shot. What was the clipping coming from? <1mV pk-pk but clipping tells me it's an ugly source and the RTB do not have an exceptional recovery which may have been your problem. I have a calibrator I'll generate the signal with a very clean output. Since the KS actually amplifies from 4mV it may not have had to deal with the clipping at all but that's just me guessing.

[ci11]

It'll have to wait until the weekend if I have time but I'll give it a shot. What was the clipping coming from? <1mV pk-pk but clipping tells me it's an ugly source and the RTB do not have an exceptional recovery which may have been your problem. I have a calibrator I'll generate the signal with a very clean output. Since the KS actually amplifies from 4mV it may not have had to deal with the clipping at all but that's just me guessing.

No worries about the wait - I appreciate your help.

My source is a R&S UPV audio analyzer with the B1 Low Distortion generator option. Its output is exceptionally clean. I don't think there would have been any clipping of the output signal but perhaps the input sections of the RTB's I tested added something to the signal they should not have, or that there was insufficient data to accurately draw the waveform due to the low sampling rate.

Attached is an FFT of a 20Hz 500µVrms signal generated by the UPV.

[maginnovision]

That's interesting. In your screenshot of the RTB the channel has the arrows up and down which means it is clipping high and low. Additionally the signal even under high res is not very smooth with lots of noise which is why you had 93MHz for the counter. It's just seeing noise(this is where threshold could come in handy along with hf reject for trigger). It might have been better to use averaging instead of high res mode. Could have been probing, env noise, or maybe the RTB just isn't right for these types of measurements.

[ci11]

That's interesting. In your screenshot of the RTB the channel has the arrows up and down which means it is clipping high and low. Additionally the signal even under high res is not very smooth with lots of noise which is why you had 93MHz for the counter. It's just seeing noise(this is where threshold could come in handy along with hf reject for trigger). It might have been better to use averaging instead of high res mode. Could have been probing, env noise, or maybe the RTB just isn't right for these types of measurements.

You are probably right on most if not all accounts but I encountered no such fussiness with the KS. It was disappointing as I use many R&S instruments and they are all exceptional. I had an earlier RTM which was not better, have not tried the current RTM or RTE, but I do not need their bandwidth or features.

[jemangedeslolos]

Im not in the mV game so I don't have fancy TE like your R&S audio analyser but I can try tomorrow with what I have at my disposal.

[mawyatt]

I don't have a SDS2504X Plus, but used a SDS2102X Plus with a 20Hz 1mv peak to peak at the input. The input channel setting is 500uv/div, DC coupled, 20MHZ BW limit with 1M Impedance, the trigger was set to Normal, Edge, Rising, HF Reject, Level 0V and Noise Reject ON. Used the standard scope probe at 10X and triggering is OK, wanders slightly and counter reads 19.99~20.02Hz. The scope actually triggers quite well considering the small input, and the counter does a respectable job of counting.

Here's a screen capture, hope this helps.

Edit: Added FFT screen capture as well.

Best,

[ci11]

I don't have a SDS2504X Plus, but used a SDS2102X Plus with a 20Hz 1mv peak to peak at the input. The input channel setting is 500uv/div, DC coupled, 20MHZ BW limit with 1M Impedance, the trigger was set to Normal, Edge, Rising, HF Reject, Level 0V and Noise Reject ON. Used the standard scope probe at 10X and triggering is OK, wanders slightly and counter reads 19.99~20.02Hz. The scope actually triggers quite well considering the small input, and the counter does a respectable job of counting.

Here's a screen capture, hope this helps.

Edit: Added FFT screen capture as well.

Best,

Excellent and thank you! This is what I was looking for. Would you mind doing a run with say a 1024 Average instead of High Res? Much appreciated!

[ci11]

I don't have a SDS2504X Plus, but used a SDS2102X Plus with a 20Hz 1mv peak to peak at the input. The input channel setting is 500uv/div, DC coupled, 20MHZ BW limit with 1M Impedance, the trigger was set to Normal, Edge, Rising, HF Reject, Level 0V and Noise Reject ON. Used the standard scope probe at 10X and triggering is OK, wanders slightly and counter reads 19.99~20.02Hz. The scope actually triggers quite well considering the small input, and the counter does a respectable job of counting.

Here's a screen capture, hope this helps.

Edit: Added FFT screen capture as well.

Best,

One more quick question - can the X scale of the FFT change from linear to log?

[mawyatt]

I don't have a SDS2504X Plus, but used a SDS2102X Plus with a 20Hz 1mv peak to peak at the input. The input channel setting is 500uv/div, DC coupled, 20MHZ BW limit with 1M Impedance, the trigger was set to Normal, Edge, Rising, HF Reject, Level 0V and Noise Reject ON. Used the standard scope probe at 10X and triggering is OK, wanders slightly and counter reads 19.99~20.02Hz. The scope actually triggers quite well considering the small input, and the counter does a respectable job of counting.

Here's a screen capture, hope this helps.

Edit: Added FFT screen capture as well.

Best,

Excellent and thank you! This is what I was looking for. Would you mind doing a run with say a 1024 Average instead of High Res? Much appreciated!

That will take much too long, here's 8 average. The 1024 Average won't look any different I suspect.

I don't think the FFT on this DSO can show log/decade frequency scale, at least I don't know how to do it.

Best,

[ci11]

I don't have a SDS2504X Plus, but used a SDS2102X Plus with a 20Hz 1mv peak to peak at the input. The input channel setting is 500uv/div, DC coupled, 20MHZ BW limit with 1M Impedance, the trigger was set to Normal, Edge, Rising, HF Reject, Level 0V and Noise Reject ON. Used the standard scope probe at 10X and triggering is OK, wanders slightly and counter reads 19.99~20.02Hz. The scope actually triggers quite well considering the small input, and the counter does a respectable job of counting.

Here's a screen capture, hope this helps.

Edit: Added FFT screen capture as well.

Best,

Excellent and thank you! This is what I was looking for. Would you mind doing a run with say a 1024 Average instead of High Res? Much appreciated!

That will take much too long, here's 8 average. The 1024 Average won't look any different I suspect.

I don't think the FFT on this DSO can show log/decade frequency scale, at least I don't know how to do it.

Best,

Ahh - sorry I did not mean a 1024 Average FFT, just a 1024 Average trace. This is where the KS really flies - it takes no time to average any trace but the software based RTB was not so fast. It would interesting to see how the SDS fares.

[mawyatt]

I don't have a SDS2504X Plus, but used a SDS2102X Plus with a 20Hz 1mv peak to peak at the input. The input channel setting is 500uv/div, DC coupled, 20MHZ BW limit with 1M Impedance, the trigger was set to Normal, Edge, Rising, HF Reject, Level 0V and Noise Reject ON. Used the standard scope probe at 10X and triggering is OK, wanders slightly and counter reads 19.99~20.02Hz. The scope actually triggers quite well considering the small input, and the counter does a respectable job of counting.

Here's a screen capture, hope this helps.

Edit: Added FFT screen capture as well.

Best,

Excellent and thank you! This is what I was looking for. Would you mind doing a run with say a 1024 Average instead of High Res? Much appreciated!

That will take much too long, here's 8 average. The 1024 Average won't look any different I suspect.

I don't think the FFT on this DSO can show log/decade frequency scale, at least I don't know how to do it.

Best,

Ahh - sorry I did not mean a 1024 Average FFT, just a 1024 Average trace. This is where the KS really flies - it takes no time to average any trace but the software based RTB was not so fast. It would interesting to see how the SDS fares.

This is also slow, so less than 1024 averages. I also included the average of the ERES function set to 3.0.

So the Average is  222 and the ERES average is 100.

Best,

[ci11]

I don't have a SDS2504X Plus, but used a SDS2102X Plus with a 20Hz 1mv peak to peak at the input. The input channel setting is 500uv/div, DC coupled, 20MHZ BW limit with 1M Impedance, the trigger was set to Normal, Edge, Rising, HF Reject, Level 0V and Noise Reject ON. Used the standard scope probe at 10X and triggering is OK, wanders slightly and counter reads 19.99~20.02Hz. The scope actually triggers quite well considering the small input, and the counter does a respectable job of counting.

Here's a screen capture, hope this helps.

Edit: Added FFT screen capture as well.

Best,

Excellent and thank you! This is what I was looking for. Would you mind doing a run with say a 1024 Average instead of High Res? Much appreciated!

That will take much too long, here's 8 average. The 1024 Average won't look any different I suspect.

I don't think the FFT on this DSO can show log/decade frequency scale, at least I don't know how to do it.

Best,

Ahh - sorry I did not mean a 1024 Average FFT, just a 1024 Average trace. This is where the KS really flies - it takes no time to average any trace but the software based RTB was not so fast. It would interesting to see how the SDS fares.

This is also slow, so less than 1024 averages. I also included the average of the ERES function set to 3.0.

So the Average is  222 and the ERES average is 100.

Best,

Nice - very impressive. Thank you once again for your help.

[mawyatt]

You are welcome.

I don't deserve any thanks for this fine instrument, I simply "lucked" into the decision to go with Siglent, mainly because of tautech.

BTW the slow process of waveform average is much better with a higher frequency input. Check out the 1MHz input used below, it averaged 1024 waveform reasonably quick. I have been using the max FFT waveform depth of ~2MPts for all FFTs.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds2102x-plus-enhanced-bit-function/

Best,   

[maginnovision]

Of course, you can't average a waveform any faster than you can complete a sweep.

[ci11]

You are welcome.

I don't deserve any thanks for this fine instrument, I simply "lucked" into the decision to go with Siglent, mainly because of tautech.

BTW the slow process of waveform average is much better with a higher frequency input. Check out the 1MHz input used below, it averaged 1024 waveform reasonably quick. I have been using the max FFT waveform depth of ~2MPts for all FFTs.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds2102x-plus-enhanced-bit-function/

Best,   

Very convincing - thank you.

One question I have yet to find an answer to is whether the x axis can be in log vs linear scale. The y axis can. This would allow many more harmonic markers to be shown and hence much more useful.

Thanks again.