Siglent SDS2000X Plus

[maginnovision]

Well to be fair it's probably ok with a multimeter. Definitely one to add to the nearly useless oscilloscope clamps.

[tv84]

I´ve test the clamp before, but only with sinewaves as I didn´t got anything else.

This forum has shown (just in the last few weeks) that almost anything does single sinewaves. The problem is when we overlap them and create other waves...

[Martin72]

Well to be fair it's probably ok with a multimeter.

I could imagine this too, but then 170€ are too much.
Can´t await to get the micsig "back" for testing the fixure thing proper.

[Martin72]

First unfinished draw of the circuit...




As I worked with it today, using power analyzising and bode plot, it remembers me of how good the sds2k+ is in general...

[2N3055]

First unfinished draw of the circuit...

(Attachment Link)


As I worked with it today, using power analyzising and bode plot, it remembers me of how good the sds2k+ is in general...

Yes, that is how mosfet / loop circuit should be.. What is interesting is mosfet switch on/off risetime/falltime.. They seem to have different gate resistors on two loops.

[Martin72]

Yes they got.
Couldn´t figure out the value ( seems to be a different code in compare to the markings of 1206 size resistors), but it is different.

[Elasia]

First unfinished draw of the circuit...

(Attachment Link)


As I worked with it today, using power analyzising and bode plot, it remembers me of how good the sds2k+ is in general...

Yes, that is how mosfet / loop circuit should be.. What is interesting is mosfet switch on/off risetime/falltime.. They seem to have different gate resistors on two loops.

/busts out smart tweezers.... ahem

A 474 on the 8 turn and a 150 on the 1 turn

[Martin72]

Hehe, the same did I measured minutes before with my mastech ms8911 tweezers. 

[Martin72]

Hi,

Got the schematic finished as some capacitors couldn´t be measured inbetween the circuits.
With the mastech switching to 0.1Vrms I could identify C1/C9 for a value of 1.2nF - Together with the resistors a 555 calculator pokes nearly 21Khz out - Seems to be right (22Khz measured).
The other caps I could only identify when I´m back to work, as I got there an SMD soldering tweezer.
The resistors I could clearly identify by using an Resistor Code Calculator.
The resistors are in 0805 size so the typical code marking won´t fit on the surface ( 10K0 = 01C).
Nevertheless, for such a simple design the price is way too high for it, even when the multilayer pcb will of course cost more then a doublelayer.
Reminds of their logic analyzer cable....

Martin

[tautech]

Just half of this added to the ST3 would make for a very useful auxiliary test PCB. 



Wonders why a 556 wasn't used. 

[Martin72]

Just half of this added to the ST3 would make for a very useful auxiliary test PCB.

And nearly worth the money then...

Wonders why a 556 wasn't used.

Good question, maybe to avoid too long routes on the pcb, I don´t know.

[tautech]

Just half of this added to the ST3 would make for a very useful auxiliary test PCB.

And nearly worth the money then...

Wonders why a 556 wasn't used.

Good question, maybe to avoid too long routes on the pcb, I don´t know.

Won’t matter much for gate drive signals at 22 KHz.

[2N3055]

Hi,

Got the schematic finished as some capacitors couldn´t be measured inbetween the circuits.
With the mastech switching to 0.1Vrms I could identify C1/C9 for a value of 1.2nF - Together with the resistors a 555 calculator pokes nearly 21Khz out - Seems to be right (22Khz measured).
The other caps I could only identify when I´m back to work, as I got there an SMD soldering tweezer.
The resistors I could clearly identify by using an Resistor Code Calculator.
The resistors are in 0805 size so the typical code marking won´t fit on the surface ( 10K0 = 01C).
Nevertheless, for such a simple design the price is way too high for it, even when the multilayer pcb will of course cost more then a doublelayer.
Reminds of their logic analyzer cable....

Martin

Thanks Martin, looks OK. As I said it is REALLY expensive for what it is. If they were selling for 50 € it would be affordable enough so it wouldn't make sense to make one, and they would still make money on it. People with OTHER scopes would buy it.. Same as demo board.. They should be giving those FREE.. So people would could be seen on Youtube testing Keysight scopes and decoding Siglent on the screen.. At least they should sell it at manufacturing price..

They use two 555, because of current isolation, and simpler routing. Price is nothing anyways.

[2N3055]

Just half of this added to the ST3 would make for a very useful auxiliary test PCB.

And nearly worth the money then...

Wonders why a 556 wasn't used.

Good question, maybe to avoid too long routes on the pcb, I don´t know.

Won’t matter much for gate drive signals at 22 KHz.

It's not frequency, it's clean edges on gate driving current. And if you don't need super fast edges, 555 is perfect because it has push-pull output and can sink/source quite a lot of current. But grounding and return current routing needs to be clean.

[Martin72]

Hope I could get the micsic probe in the next two weeks ( holidays, yeah) for final check up the thing.
Meanwhile I´m trying to investigate what´s wrong with the cp-05, but that´s another question in another thread.
The price policy of the demo board and the fixture is horrible, nevertheless I´ve bought them because of curiosity and what the demoboard concerns, they were some situations in the past where I could use it excactly in the moment I need a signal special.
So it do not hurt soo much.

[tautech]

Just half of this added to the ST3 would make for a very useful auxiliary test PCB.

And nearly worth the money then...

Wonders why a 556 wasn't used.

Good question, maybe to avoid too long routes on the pcb, I don´t know.

Won’t matter much for gate drive signals at 22 KHz.

It's not frequency, it's clean edges on gate driving current. And if you don't need super fast edges, 555 is perfect because it has push-pull output and can sink/source quite a lot of current. But grounding and return current routing needs to be clean.

Not too much of an issue with the large multilayer PCB used here yet with the gate resistor values used there seems an attempt to slow the gate drive down possibly to reduce the current loop ringing. 

[Martin72]

Well, this could be an easily finding out by changing the resistor.
Meh, reminds me that I didn´t got a smd resistor assortment...

[2N3055]

Just half of this added to the ST3 would make for a very useful auxiliary test PCB.

And nearly worth the money then...

Wonders why a 556 wasn't used.

Good question, maybe to avoid too long routes on the pcb, I don´t know.

Won’t matter much for gate drive signals at 22 KHz.

It's not frequency, it's clean edges on gate driving current. And if you don't need super fast edges, 555 is perfect because it has push-pull output and can sink/source quite a lot of current. But grounding and return current routing needs to be clean.

Not too much of an issue with the large multilayer PCB used here yet with the gate resistor values used there seems an attempt to slow the gate drive down possibly to reduce the current loop ringing. 

Correct, but it is simply easier to design, and BOM is easy anyways. Having 2 same chips is almost the same as one, as long it doesn't have to be two separate types. It is so expensive nobody cared to optimize anything.  Still it should be no more than 50-60 €. And only because I respect PCB is 4 layers, and is clean debugged design. Hell even 100€ I would understand because it does have to have some kind of guarantee of signal being clean and proper. And people would buy it for other scopes too.
To be honest, it is NOT more expensive than alternatives. I'm more saying it is kinda missed opportunity..

[Elasia]

Well, this could be an easily finding out by changing the resistor.
Meh, reminds me that I didn´t got a smd resistor assortment...

dude... less than 20 bucks

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32694344850.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.358e2c47ohjOSK&algo_pvid=5a804e5d-3689-4208-9b08-614ef56190d1&algo_expid=5a804e5d-3689-4208-9b08-614ef56190d1-1&btsid=0be3764515943314704483584ee7eb&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

In fact i just busted mine out before this post and was changing some voltage dividers lol

[Sergio66]

Hello,

     here I'm stepping back to the old probe discussion....

What about the Testec probe TT-HF 612RA? It seems it has good specifications and I can find it at 126€ (VAT not included) here:

https://www.batterfly.com/shop/it/testandmeasurement/oscilloscopi/sonde/passive/testec-tt-hf-612ra

Does anybody have some experience with that probe? I'm wondering if it's worth the cost for this passive probe ..... anyway, less expensive than the Siglent SP3050A (199€ VAT not included)...

Thanks!

[drwho9437]

I got my scope in the mail the other day. My initial comments/requests.

The color of C1 and C4 are the same to a color blind person like myself. Please either give us the ability to change colors or just make them different brightness (if rendered as greyscale), if for button color reasons Siglent insists on yellow-green...

Math: Add trig functions. IQ stuff is pretty common so having tangent can often for instance be very helpful. Ideally add everything on a scientific calculator that you could have in school.

Include better probes, even if you have to raise the price slightly.

[Martin72]

Except the probe thing, this would be better posted in the bugs and feature thread.

[martinot]

New models similar to the SDS5000X form factor and UI and whispered release is early 2020.



2 GSa/s, BW's 70 to 500 MHz only 100, 200 and 350 MHz models to western markets.
Storage depth up to 200 Mpts/ch
120,000 wfm/s
2 or 4ch models.
8 and 10 bit modes
10" touch display with keyboard and mouse support
16ch MSO option
Standard Decodes:  IIC, SPI, UART, CAN, LIN. Optional: CAN FD, FlexRay, IIS, MIL-STD-1553B each $269
2 Mpts FFT.
1M and 50 Ohm inputs.
Inbuilt 50 MHz AWG option $219
Power Analysis option $269

BW upgrade options

Released Jan 16 2020
https://int.siglent.com/products-overview/sds2000xp/
https://siglentna.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds2000xp/
https://www.siglenteu.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds2000xp/

SDS2102X Plus $ 999
SDS2104X Plus $ 1399
SDS2204X Plus $ 2199
SDS2354X Plus $ 2999

Upgrade SDS2354X Plus bandwidth to 500 MHz (Only two channels) $1,399, others available.

https://youtu.be/5Gl1O8YHUso


First look at the SDS2104X Plus by Defpom



June 3 2020
Dave has a dive into the insides of the 350 MHz SDS2354X Plus, installs the 500 MHz BW option by way of a hack and finishes with a tangle with the 10 bit mode.

I agree with Dave. It is a horrible design with all the pastel colours and fake silver rings on the knobs. Looks more like a beautybox for a teenager girl (on a budget), than like a professional test equipment. 
 

[Martin72]

For me it's OK, better than my former rigol 5000.
But it's always a matter of personal taste 😉

[0xdeadbeef]

I agree with Dave. It is a horrible design with all the pastel colours and fake silver rings on the knobs. Looks more like a beautybox for a teenager girl (on a budget), than like a professional test equipment. 

LeCroy uses the exact same silver rings and nobody complains. OK, they look a bit better on black knobs, but basing a buying decision on something like this is somewhat crazy. And the "pastel" colors are those of the traces. Same for about each and every scope on the market. Current Siglent scopes might not be totally sexy, but they look a hundred times better than other Chinese scopes (also regarding fonts, general layout etc.)