Siglent SDS2000X Plus

[0xdeadbeef]

Does the Siglent SDS5000X provide more features besides a higher sample rate, sample memory and individual knobs for each input channel?

Other HW differences:

Smart system cooling fan.
Active probe support.
10 MHz ref in/out capability
VGA out
1 additional USB A port

There are a few more important differences between the SDS2000X+ and the SDS5000X. Only the SDS2000X+ has 10bit mode (limited to 100MHz) and an internal waveform generator. But the 5000X has averaging and ERES in HW as acquisition feature while ERES is a math function on the SDS2000X+ (slowish and limited to two channels). Also only the SDS5000X has Nth edge trigger and two channel triggers like qualified, delay and setup/hold. Plus, only the 5000X comes with proper probes (only the SDS2354X does, but it costs nearly as much as the SDS5034X). Not so important in the light of certain scripts, but also only the SDS5000X currently comes with all SW options for free (than again, you still need the digital probes and the external USB AWG to use the according features).

[Martin72]

so only the SDS5000X has Nth edge trigger and two channel triggers like qualified, delay and setup/hold.

The trigger difference would be only an update far away to be the same....
Hardware-based eres and averaging and mask test…..that should be understood, what the price difference concerns.
Why spending 2k bucks more when you already could get it with a sds2k+...

[tautech]

Doesn't the Logic OR trigger allow triggering on multiple channels ? 

[Elasia]

It´s getting "better" :

A few days ago, I´ve used the "online chat" to ask them, when will my already payed item arrives…
Positive thing, I got immediately an answer.
Next week, in this case this week…
Do I now get an update of my order status ? No…
Tomorrow we´ll have wednesday, I don´t think I´ll got it in this week. 

that sucks...

sad thing is i could order it and have it tomorrow direct.. they have them stocked at the NA HQ

They did that with my seemingly rare bench meter with the scan card.. its annoying they dont let their distributors drop ship that i know of

There are a few more important differences between the SDS2000X+ and the SDS5000X. Only the SDS2000X+ has 10bit mode (limited to 100MHz) and an internal waveform generator. But the 5000X has averaging and ERES in HW as acquisition feature while ERES is a math function on the SDS2000X+ (slowish and limited to two channels). Also only the SDS5000X has Nth edge trigger and two channel triggers like qualified, delay and setup/hold. Plus, only the 5000X comes with proper probes (only the SDS2354X does, but it costs nearly as much as the SDS5034X). Not so important in the light of certain scripts, but also only the SDS5000X currently comes with all SW options for free (than again, you still need the digital probes and the external USB AWG to use the according features).

I wish I had a better quad set of probes, you at least get their 200MHz rated set though with the 100MHz scope

I do got one special rf probe with built in dc blocking thats completely flat through 4GHz+, been wondering how well it would work on a normal scope and not a SSA

I certainly can be wrong, because I never had a spectrum analyzer with a tracking generator, but for amplitude you could measure the correct amplitude with the spectrum analyzer and then connect to the scope and measure the amplitude attenuation with it. Point-by-point. Then normalize in Excel. But that only solves half of the problem, the “easy part”.

After thinking a little bit about the problem I taught of a simple method for measuring the phase shift of the scope at each frequency. But to get it to work you need a single channel signal generator, with a output clock or output trigger connected to the input trigger of the scope, and the signal generator must generate a single cycle sinusoidal burst. The scope will measure a low frequency signal in REF_A in terms of time delta against a varying high frequency signal. Do some averages, and you must use the coursers to compare the 1/4 wave top’s.  You have to correct for the fact that you are comparing the phase of two different frequency signals. The logic is that the low frequency signal will be residually affected by the scope transfer function when compared to the high frequency signal, so you can use it as a reference for phase measurements.

Best regards,
João Carvalho

Point to point is what i did to just wing it, wasnt going for hyper accuracy

[Martin72]

The probe discussion we got already months ago here.
Fact is, as I bought the basic 4-ch model from rigol, the 5074 ( 70 (!!) Mhz), four 350Mhz probes were included.
Just in case you will upgrade it to 350mhz.
Then I bought the basic 4-ch model from siglent, the sds2104x+.
It costs more than 300 bucks than the rigol 5074 - Did I get the probes for 350/500 Mhz, just in case I will upgrade it to this ?
No, what you get are maximum simple probes - When you upgrade your model, regardless about the way to do it, you must pay extra for proper fitting probes - Go and search for 350/500mhz probes, what they costs…
This is a little bit lame.

[0xdeadbeef]

The trigger difference would be only an update far away to be the same....

Well, the scopes kinda use the same SW and the triggers are not new in the SDS5000X, so I guess this won't happen. I would also think that the multi-channel triggers like qualified trigger could be limited by HW.

Doesn't the Logic OR trigger allow triggering on multiple channels ? 

But that's not the same as a qualified trigger that triggers after an event on channel A followed by an event on channel B. The bigger LeCroys can cascade multiple events on different channels but at least the SDS5000X inherited the simpler two channel triggers from the WS3000.

I wish I had a better quad set of probes, you at least get their 200MHz rated set though with the 100MHz scope

Bandwidth isn't my only concern. I also understand that the probes delivered with the 100MHz and 200MHz models are cheapish switchable 1x/10x probes that don't even support probe detection though the scope does.

[tautech]

Doesn't the Logic OR trigger allow triggering on multiple channels ? 

But that's not the same as a qualified trigger that triggers after an event on channel A followed by an event on channel B. The bigger LeCroys can cascade multiple events on different channels but at least the SDS5000X inherited the simpler two channel triggers from the WS3000.

Dunno, haven't tried it.
Might be an interesting exercise along with a Zone and maybe Gate for someone that has one....I don't ATM. 

I wish I had a better quad set of probes, you at least get their 200MHz rated set though with the 100MHz scope

Bandwidth isn't my only concern. I also understand that the probes delivered with the 100MHz and 200MHz models are cheapish switchable 1x/10x probes that don't even support probe detection though the scope does.

Yep been meaning to ask what probes come with the SDS2204X Plus but keeps skipping my mind. 
Hopefully it's the nice and bit cheaper 300 MHz 10x SP2030A.

[Elasia]

Doesn't the Logic OR trigger allow triggering on multiple channels ? 

But that's not the same as a qualified trigger that triggers after an event on channel A followed by an event on channel B. The bigger LeCroys can cascade multiple events on different channels but at least the SDS5000X inherited the simpler two channel triggers from the WS3000.

Dunno, haven't tried it.
Might be an interesting exercise along with a Zone and maybe Gate for someone that has one....I don't ATM. 

I wish I had a better quad set of probes, you at least get their 200MHz rated set though with the 100MHz scope

Bandwidth isn't my only concern. I also understand that the probes delivered with the 100MHz and 200MHz models are cheapish switchable 1x/10x probes that don't even support probe detection though the scope does.

Yep been meaning to ask what probes come with the SDS2204X Plus but keeps skipping my mind. 
Hopefully it's the nice and bit cheaper 300 MHz 10x SP2030A.

You get the full shaft... PP215, same as the 100MHz less the datasheet is wrong

[0xdeadbeef]

You get the full shaft... PP215, same as the 100MHz less the datasheet is wrong

Yep, that's what I meant when I said that only the SDS2354X+ comes with proper probes, namely SP2035A just as the SDS5024X. All lower models come with the PP215 according to the datasheet.

[tautech]

Just looked up the 10x 300 MHz SP2030A probe, same as is shipped with the older 300 MHz SDS2304X and auto sense.
These are $59ea vs $27 for PP215 200 MHz 10x/1x probes.

All round nicer more compact probe with the compensation adjustment in the BNC end not on the probe.
I had these with my SDS2304X......sold and replaced with SDS5054X.

[0xdeadbeef]

It's somewhat fascinating that the SP2035A costs three times as much as the SP2030A where the only difference is a marginally better rise time (1ns instead of 1.15ns) at the cost of half the voltage rating (300V CAT II instead of 600V without CAT specification). The capacitance and everything else seems to be identical.

[Elasia]

I rescind every bitchy comment i have made about zooming on a siglent... dave posted another video and caused me to realize something 

nctnico... i give you a siglent that can zoom in AND out

[tautech]

I rescind every bitchy comment i have made about zooming on a siglent... dave posted another video and caused me to realize something 

nctnico... i give you a siglent that can zoom in AND out

And vertically. 

[Elasia]

I rescind every bitchy comment i have made about zooming on a siglent... dave posted another video and caused me to realize something 

nctnico... i give you a siglent that can zoom in AND out

And vertically. 

Yeah.. its crazy that trigger mode with large memory actually works the way you would think it should... its just chinese setting it up ass backwards and not being automatic like you would find on everyone else lol

I do wish the refresh rate was faster... it really bogs down this 2k+ with 2 channels on and all digital io im only getting about 4-5 frames a second

[tautech]

I rescind every bitchy comment i have made about zooming on a siglent... dave posted another video and caused me to realize something 

nctnico... i give you a siglent that can zoom in AND out

And vertically. 

Yeah.. its crazy that trigger mode with large memory actually works the way you would think it should... its just chinese setting it up ass backwards and not being automatic like you would find on everyone else lol

I do wish the refresh rate was faster... it really bogs down this 2k+ with 2 channels on and all digital io im only getting about 4-5 frames a second

Yes pumping 200M continually through the system does impact on display refresh however wind the memory depth down to something like most other DSO's should improve things.

[nctnico]

I rescind every bitchy comment i have made about zooming on a siglent... dave posted another video and caused me to realize something 

nctnico... i give you a siglent that can zoom in AND out

But you need zoom mode for that. Look how cramped the display gets and the information from the zoom window doesn't add anything because you can't even see what is there.

[Tankj]

Report a simple way to check the Waveform update rate.

The key is that 2000X+ will always buffer and updating the history frames in backstage, access the buffered frames at any time in History mode.Open the frame list on history menu, and set the Time Type to Delta T, the list shows the Delta T bettewn two wave frames.

I made some quick test, it basically consistent with the performance given in datasheet.

Normal Acquire, wfms/sec,
               Vector      Dot
20nS         20k    125-142k
50nS         20k    125-142k
100nS       20k      71.5k
200nS       15k       15k
500nS       10k       10k
1uS           7.1k     7.1k

Sequence mode, wfms/sec,
               Vector          Dot
20nS     333-500k    333-500k
50nS     333-500k    333-500k
100nS       250k          250k
200nS       200k          200k
500nS       125k          125k
1uS           71k            71k

HERE comes the interesting part, ALL 4channels ON, 10bits, Vector line... None of these will slowdown the waveform update rate in Sequence mode. In Normal Acquire, 10bits will still not affect the update rate, that's fairly good. I think I can use the 10bits in most cases without worrying about missing important waveforms   Almost like a real 10bits ADC, of course within 100Mhz.

I don't do more test on larger timebases, which the waveform update rate is completely limited by the huge time length of single frame, and does very little to do with the performance of oscilloscope itself. if I'm wrong about this, please tell me.

The screenshots are in chinese i forgot to switch to english UI before save, sorry for that

[Tankj]

A little more, I can confirm that the 2074X+ is still the same HW, very same front end than a top 2504X+

If you can buy the 2074X+ with around 990USD, it's the Best value for money   Although it will comes with a lowest 70MHz probe, I don't think anyone will care that anymore.

[tv84]

A little more, I can confirm that the 2074X+ is still the same HW, very same front end than a top 2504X+

If you can buy the 2074X+ with around 990USD, it's the Best value for money   Although it will comes with a lowest 70MHz probe, I don't think anyone will care that anymore.

The BIG problem is that 2074X+ is not available outside China!

If not, that would definitely be a killer.  (the probes...  )

[Tankj]

The BIG problem is that 2074X+ is not available outside China!

If not, that would definitely be a killer.  (the probes...  )

Yes, I almost got pissed off when I opened the probe box, but considering the money I spent on it, I actually won’t complain anything.
Think I need to buy some NOS keysight N2843A for it

[jemangedeslolos]

Why the hell they don't sell the 2074X Plus outside China?
Rigol won't sell anything anymore at that price.

[Tankj]

Why the hell they don't sell the 2074X Plus outside China?
Rigol won't sell anything anymore at that price.

If look from Siglent's perspective, I can understand why they did that. There are many low-cost equipment in the Chinese market, including Rigol of course. Now Rigol is still much stronger than siglent, in terms of sales volume. Siglent must provide more cost-effective instruments than competitors to win more market share with new SDS2000X+, they must do this in china.

But outside, The 2104X+ is very enough to play like a killer. even Siglent sells it at about 1400USD outside, I believe it doesn't have much profit on it.

[jemangedeslolos]

Why the hell they don't sell the 2074X Plus outside China?
Rigol won't sell anything anymore at that price.

If look from Siglent's perspective, I can understand why they did that. There are many low-cost equipment in the Chinese market, including Rigol of course. Now Rigol is still much stronger than siglent, in terms of sales volume. Siglent must provide more cost-effective instruments than competitors to win more market share with new SDS2000X+, they must do this in china.

But outside, The 2104X+ is very enough to play like a killer. even Siglent sells it at about 1400USD outside, I believe it doesn't have much profit on it.

I honestly don't know the sales volume nor how big is Siglent or Rigol ( and I don't know anything about marketing )
It is just that outside China, you have to add about 35 to 50% more if you want the SDS2104X instead of the MSO5072 or MSO5074.

if Siglent is able to make money on the 2074X Plus at 999$ in China, they could sell tons of it outside and increase their margins and profits.
From my point of view, I can understand someone who hesitates between the Rigol and the Siglent because of the price difference but at 999$....

[Elasia]

I rescind every bitchy comment i have made about zooming on a siglent... dave posted another video and caused me to realize something 

nctnico... i give you a siglent that can zoom in AND out

But you need zoom mode for that. Look how cramped the display gets and the information from the zoom window doesn't add anything because you can't even see what is there.

Yeah, dont really like their choice to shrink the entire screen down like that when you got a lot up.. would be nice if it was able to be changed back and forth with a smaller slider bar, im now using it for relative position which is what it is good for.. or add another option to hide it completely

Some others are still hating on it in the other thread because it isnt natively setup with how its usually been done before by the industry but functional equivalency is still equivalent and gets the job done.. so really its just now a function of preference like most other scope options and to each his own.. i dont think its really that hard to setup either, if it wasnt for the big ass bar there would be no way to tell one mode from the other

It always bugged me thinking that they wouldnt have that in there at all and glad to have found it at least on the 2k+, make it a lot less pain in the ass and more useful

[noreply]

I just found out how much the ..

SPL2016 16 Digital Channel Logic Probe for SDS2000X Series  retail for 

Is there an in-depth review OR teardown on these puppies ??

Just curious why such a premium price 

Are there any 3rd party devices that can be used instead ...

Just curious at your personal experience with using the SDS2000X Series for logic analysis - or should I stay clear and get some dedicated kit