Siglent SDS2000X Plus

[jemangedeslolos]

I need a 2nd scope but I already have a Rigol MSO7000.
Im divided between keeping my Rigol for home and breaking the bank for a higher end, more polished scope like a R&S RTM3000/4000 or Lecroy 4024HD. Or be reasonable and buy myself this SDS2000X Plus for home.

I'm in no rush so I have time to think.
I don't have the money for a full option R&S or Lecroy....data to take into account 

Maybe it's better to wait for Sighound's MXR and then you'll have another one to think about!   

We don't play in the same league him and me 

[jemangedeslolos]

But I already had remarks when I wrote documentation with "Rigol" screenshots.
*snip*
Hence the idea of maybe breaking the bank and buying an scope for my lab and keep the one I have for home.

Vastly cheaper to use photoshop 

Maybe it would be more credible to buy the Siglent and change the logo for a Lecroy during a telnet session .

[tautech]

Not a big deal.
This does not detract from the fact that it is a good scope.
I fight every day with myself, several times a day, to NOT buy one 

Let Dave have time to do a careful review and get to know this scope as this is no toy and takes a while to learn its feature set and capabilities.
Much like the SDS5kX it is more productive to use with a mouse which really supplements the touch and physical controls.

I don't plan on a full review, already did one for the 5000X and the operation is going to be near identical. I also presume it would be common platform, so any issues found on one would get fixed on the other.

Pop them each alongside each other and compare the physical UI differences of which there are a few.
Some of the features are better grouped in SDS2kX Plus front panel layout. Little thing I know and it's a shame SDS5kX doesn't reflex the same more thoughtful layout.

Hope to see you use it some more in future videos.

[2N3055]

I need a 2nd scope but I already have a Rigol MSO7000.
Im divided between keeping my Rigol for home and breaking the bank for a higher end, more polished scope like a R&S RTM3000/4000 or Lecroy 4024HD. Or be reasonable and buy myself this SDS2000X Plus for home.

Few people need to shell out a lot of coin for a high end scope for home. Use the money for something else, or save it.

From the man with the most scopes in his lab, in the world 

An oscilloscope at home doesn't necessarily mean it's for hobby use.
I have young children, so I am sometimes stucked at home for several days. It's nice to have this flexibility and to be able to continue working at home in good conditions.
Im sure the SDS2000X Plus will fit my needs at home, no problem.

But I already had remarks when I wrote documentation with "Rigol" screenshots.
I know it sounds stupid but I have clients who got stuck in the 2000s and only trust big brands.
They think Rigol is Chinese shit and don't even know the Siglent brand.
They have dedicated suppliers who don't represent these low cost brands so they only know the big brands solutions and to be honest, I'm not sure that they look at something other than Tektronix when they have to buy a scope.

Hence the idea of maybe breaking the bank and buying an scope for my lab and keep the one I have for home.
If they are happy with R&S screenshots and they give me more work to do, everyone is happy 

If you want nice docs, LeCroys LabNotebook is way to go... But I buy fancy equipment to impress customers only if THEY will pay for it (one way or another).
For documentation I mostly use Picoscope because it just easier, unless it's something it can't do..

[tautech]

For documentation I mostly use Picoscope because it just easier, unless it's something it can't do..

How is it easier, just because it's already connected to a PC to save screenshots to ?

[2N3055]

For documentation I mostly use Picoscope because it just easier, unless it's something it can't do..

How is it easier, just because it's already connected to a PC to save screenshots to ?

That and many ways to save.. You can put screenshot of just scope window or full window to clipboard. You can save from file menu as Pico data (to open later by software and do anything like at capture time),  as CSV, or as image, and you can chose to do all that for only current buffer or all buffers from history. When saving as image you can take history buffers and make animated GIF form history buffers.. You can also simply print to PDF etc etc.
It is simply very handy and quick to use...
Also, since it is software decode, you can capture something, save it, open it next day and then play with math, decodes .... And then make documentation form that. And a week after, you remember something, open it again, and grab another view and add it to documentation..

[tautech]

For documentation I mostly use Picoscope because it just easier, unless it's something it can't do..

How is it easier, just because it's already connected to a PC to save screenshots to ?

That and many ways to save.. You can put screenshot of just scope window or full window to clipboard. You can save from file menu as Pico data (to open later by software and do anything like at capture time),  as CSV, or as image, and you can chose to do all that for only current buffer or all buffers from history. When saving as image you can take history buffers and make animated GIF form history buffers.. You can also simply print to PDF etc etc.
It is simply very handy and quick to use...
Also, since it is software decode, you can capture something, save it, open it next day and then play with math, decodes .... And then make documentation form that. And a week after, you remember something, open it again, and grab another view and add it to documentation..

Ok I see, much of that can be done with the 2kX Plus also when connected via LAN to the webrowser and even the little 7" display X-E's. Reimporting is more difficult and can really only be Reference files which of course you can still measure etc.
So in practice we would maybe move from the scope controls to the PC and work the scope with a mouse just like the Pico I presume.

[0xdeadbeef]

Also, since it is software decode, you can capture something, save it, open it next day and then play with math, decodes .... And then make documentation form that. And a week after, you remember something, open it again, and grab another view and add it to documentation..

This saving/restoring of the whole system state (i.e. settings and full data) is a feature that LeCroy scopes had for at least a decade or so and that is unfortunately absent from any other (standalone) brand (AFAIK). It's a bit of a letdown that Siglent doesn't seem to intend to offer something like that. Same is true for other unique LeCroy things like WaveScan and LabView, but there I could at least imagine that directly copying the idea wouldn't make LeCroy happy. Saving/restoring of the state+data is such a basic concept though that it's hard to imagine this could be protected anyhow.

[2N3055]

Ok I see, much of that can be done with the 2kX Plus also when connected via LAN to the webrowser and even the little 7" display X-E's. Reimporting is more difficult and can really only be Reference files which of course you can still measure etc.
So in practice we would maybe move from the scope controls to the PC and work the scope with a mouse just like the Pico I presume.

Yes, you can do some of the things remotely, I use this with my Keysight (it also has VNC remote control, and web control page that makes thing easier) but it is very limited compared to scope App being real windows app running on your real PC. For instance, I'm confused why scopes with Ethernet interfaces and Linux on it don't allow me to map network drives (NFS or Samba, I don't care), so I can stop using stupid USB keys for captures, masks or captures. For instance, save on mask failure... Some GW Instek and Tek scopes can do it, but none of embeded ones can.. Only windows based ones..
I'm looking at you Keysight too, really on 3000T/4000/6000 series that should be a built in feature. It would be much more useful than fully featured TCP/IP Print server that is so 80-is.
Nobody prints to printer directly..

Also, since it is software decode, you can capture something, save it, open it next day and then play with math, decodes .... And then make documentation form that. And a week after, you remember something, open it again, and grab another view and add it to documentation..

This saving/restoring of the whole system state (i.e. settings and full data) is a feature that LeCroy scopes had for at least a decade or so and that is unfortunately absent from any other (standalone) brand (AFAIK). It's a bit of a letdown that Siglent doesn't seem to intend to offer something like that. Same is true for other unique LeCroy things like WaveScan and LabView, but there I could at least imagine that directly copying the idea wouldn't make LeCroy happy. Saving/restoring of the state+data is such a basic concept though that it's hard to imagine this could be protected anyhow.

Agree. Just to mention it, higher end R&S scopes have it too, together with fancy previews and such.
I bought Pico because it is cheapest way to get many high end usability and analytical features (DeepMeasure, unlimited decodes, unlimited aribitrary math etc etc)...
Mind you, there are many things about it that I don't like, but it is very powerfull tool, if you take time to learn how to use it.

[0xdeadbeef]

I bought Pico because it is cheapest way to get many high end usability and analytical features (DeepMeasure, unlimited decodes, unlimited aribitrary math etc etc)...

Somewhat offtopic, but they don't really appeal to me. The models with acceptable bandwidth and sample rate seem very expensive for what they are. E.g. the 300MHz model 6403E that costs 4920€ including VAT obviously just has one ADC which is shared between the four channels. So 5GSa/s are misleading as are 1GSa memory. Besides, the frontends don't seem to be the best. Like even their highest end model only offers 2mV/div to 4V/div. Meh.

[Elasia]

For documentation I mostly use Picoscope because it just easier, unless it's something it can't do..

How is it easier, just because it's already connected to a PC to save screenshots to ?

That and many ways to save.. You can put screenshot of just scope window or full window to clipboard. You can save from file menu as Pico data (to open later by software and do anything like at capture time),  as CSV, or as image, and you can chose to do all that for only current buffer or all buffers from history. When saving as image you can take history buffers and make animated GIF form history buffers.. You can also simply print to PDF etc etc.
It is simply very handy and quick to use...
Also, since it is software decode, you can capture something, save it, open it next day and then play with math, decodes .... And then make documentation form that. And a week after, you remember something, open it again, and grab another view and add it to documentation..

Ok I see, much of that can be done with the 2kX Plus also when connected via LAN to the webrowser and even the little 7" display X-E's. Reimporting is more difficult and can really only be Reference files which of course you can still measure etc.
So in practice we would maybe move from the scope controls to the PC and work the scope with a mouse just like the Pico I presume.

I do this now

[Sighound36]

Labnote book is rather good I have mentioned before that other brands should have their own versions.

I suspect with Siglent that is one section of LeCroy's IP that isn't going anywhere

[Elasia]

Ok I see, much of that can be done with the 2kX Plus also when connected via LAN to the webrowser and even the little 7" display X-E's. Reimporting is more difficult and can really only be Reference files which of course you can still measure etc.
So in practice we would maybe move from the scope controls to the PC and work the scope with a mouse just like the Pico I presume.

Yes, you can do some of the things remotely, I use this with my Keysight (it also has VNC remote control, and web control page that makes thing easier) but it is very limited compared to scope App being real windows app running on your real PC. For instance, I'm confused why scopes with Ethernet interfaces and Linux on it don't allow me to map network drives (NFS or Samba, I don't care), so I can stop using stupid USB keys for captures, masks or captures. For instance, save on mask failure... Some GW Instek and Tek scopes can do it, but none of embeded ones can.. Only windows based ones..
I'm looking at you Keysight too, really on 3000T/4000/6000 series that should be a built in feature. It would be much more useful than fully featured TCP/IP Print server that is so 80-is.
Nobody prints to printer directly..

Also, since it is software decode, you can capture something, save it, open it next day and then play with math, decodes .... And then make documentation form that. And a week after, you remember something, open it again, and grab another view and add it to documentation..

This saving/restoring of the whole system state (i.e. settings and full data) is a feature that LeCroy scopes had for at least a decade or so and that is unfortunately absent from any other (standalone) brand (AFAIK). It's a bit of a letdown that Siglent doesn't seem to intend to offer something like that. Same is true for other unique LeCroy things like WaveScan and LabView, but there I could at least imagine that directly copying the idea wouldn't make LeCroy happy. Saving/restoring of the state+data is such a basic concept though that it's hard to imagine this could be protected anyhow.

Agree. Just to mention it, higher end R&S scopes have it too, together with fancy previews and such.
I bought Pico because it is cheapest way to get many high end usability and analytical features (DeepMeasure, unlimited decodes, unlimited aribitrary math etc etc)...
Mind you, there are many things about it that I don't like, but it is very powerfull tool, if you take time to learn how to use it.

This is actually something im looking at along with adding ssh to this and the ssa3k+ to make them more useful and usable with less fooling around

Siglent runs linux.. no reason they couldnt put these in it themselves if they wanted

[2N3055]

I bought Pico because it is cheapest way to get many high end usability and analytical features (DeepMeasure, unlimited decodes, unlimited aribitrary math etc etc)...

Somewhat offtopic, but they don't really appeal to me. The models with acceptable bandwidth and sample rate seem very expensive for what they are. E.g. the 300MHz model 6403E that costs 4920€ including VAT obviously just has one ADC which is shared between the four channels. So 5GSa/s are misleading as are 1GSa memory. Besides, the frontends don't seem to be the best. Like even their highest end model only offers 2mV/div to 4V/div. Meh.

Most of the stuff I do is not very fast. I have 1GHz Keysight for better bandwidth. I have 3406D that has best analog sensitivity of 4mv/div and 4262 that has 2mv/div but it's 16 bit, so you can see things  buried well down in micro-volts... Also noise of their front end is very respectable...
Keysight 3000T series also have maximum analog sensitivity of 4mv/div, and nobody calls it bad..
Fact is, I don't do stuff that would need 500uV/div at 1GHz bandwidth. That is moment I fire up SA.....

But to get back on topic.   I really miss network drive mapping on all embedded (non windows ones) scopes. Also, LeCroy like LabView is not necessary, simpler facility that can dump Screen Dump and (optionally) measurement setup page at a press to a network drive, in some ODF format (easier to render than PDF I presume) or even in PNG+text file with same name would. Or simple stupid html.

One thing that is mostly overseen is dumping instrument settings together with screen capture.  On screen you can see some info but it's not complete and not easy to read.

[0xdeadbeef]

Keysight 3000T series also have maximum analog sensitivity of 4mv/div, and nobody calls it bad..

But it isn't limited to 4V/div in the other direction. I find that more concerning than the lack of anything below 2mv/div.

Also, LeCroy like LabView is not necessary, simpler facility that can dump Screen Dump and (optionally) measurement setup page at a press to a network drive, in some ODF format (easier to render than PDF I presume) or even in PNG+text file with same name would. Or simple stupid html.

It's LabNotebook btw. but I mixed it up with LabView, so mea culpa. Anyway, the beauty of LabNotebook is not that you can draw circles etc. but that a LabNotebook entry stores the data and settings (in addition to annotations). A screenshot may not be enough to further look into an issue at a later time.

[2N3055]

It's LabNotebook btw. but I mixed it up with LabView, so mea culpa. Anyway, the beauty of LabNotebook is not that you can draw circles etc. but that a LabNotebook entry stores the data and settings (in addition to annotations). A screenshot may not be enough to further look into an issue at a later time.

Yeah I know  I wrote it right previously, but was answering so repeated by instinct...
That is exactly what I meant, but even screenshot AND scope settings dumped in a simply formated HTML would be enough most of the time... Automated, screen, settings and data dump is not that complicated, just name them the same (different exetensions, naturally)..

[Martin72]

500MHz top vs 100MHz bottom

For me it looks like the same.

[famalex]

500MHz top vs 100MHz bottom

For me it looks like the same.

The bottom image is too low quality to see the details. But there is difference in silkscreen. Obviously.  At the moment I'm too lazy to disassemble my scope (upgraded  SDS2104) to take some good photo of frontend. Sorry.  

[Martin72]

The bottom image is too low quality to see the details. But there is difference in silkscreen. Obviously. Now I'm too lazy to disassemble my scope (upgraded  SDS2104) to take some good photo of frontend. Sorry.

I did also noticed the different silkscreen, but it don´t worrying me, because it´s only silkscreen.
I´m afraid to loose the warranty, otherwise I would take hires pics from it...

[jemangedeslolos]

Nobody have different HW rev on system info?
Maybe the silkscreen explain the differences between 2104X able to upgrade to 350 vs 500MHz
There must be 2104X with the same silkcreen thab the 2354X+

[famalex]

It's true. The silkscreen is only silkscreen. I just would like to see the capacitors and resistors values and types of chips. 

[Martin72]

Nobody have different HW rev on system info?

It seems not.

I was one of the very first buyer, so that could be an explanation why 2504X wouldn´t displayed by mine scope.
But others, who bought their scope very lately after me, report it too.

Maybe the silkscreen explain the differences between 2104X able to upgrade to 350 vs 500MHz

To make it clear, I got also the 500Mhz bw although it´s not displayed in the system info.

[famalex]

In general, the only need a good calibrated HF generator to check the BW of your scope. It's enough.

[jemangedeslolos]

Nobody have different HW rev on system info?

It seems not.

I was one of the very first buyer, so that could be an explanation why 2504X wouldn´t displayed by mine scope.
But others, who bought their scope very lately after me, report it too.

Maybe the silkscreen explain the differences between 2104X able to upgrade to 350 vs 500MHz

To make it clear, I got also the 500Mhz bw although it´s not displayed in the system info.

Confirmed by a sweep test?

[Martin72]

To be honest, no.
Just calculating from the risetime given from the leo bodnar pulsegen and the fact, that the channels of one ADC turning to bandwithlimit (350Mhz), when operate together, refering to the manual.