Siglent SDS2000X Plus

[tautech]

any news in getting a good mating connector ?
3D printed cover ?
for the DIY SPL2016 ?
I did find a little bit of random spread information in this huge thread about the logic analyzer DIY,
like pinouts, alot of other posts with this info the pictures or links dont work,
I dont need it that much, so I am not going to pay 400 $ for it,
and when/if i need it, I could be happy with just 4-8 channels.

The mainboard socket for the LA connector is a PCi-E socket and the mating plug is just an enclosed strip of PCB with a PCi-E footprint.
Member TK made an adapter to accept HP LA cables and I've linked it on the first post of this thread.

[oz2cpu]

that is king, thanks as always for fast, accurate and very use full reply, i check it out right now :-)

[tautech]

I'm trying to decide whether to hold out for an SDS2104X-Plus (they're a little hard to get right now apparently) or go for an MSO5074, which are readily available.....

Apparently there is no inventory of SDS2104X-Plus in North America. The story I heard is the Siglent factory is waiting for semiconductor parts from USA to build the inventory, which was depleted, due to popularity. Semiconductor shortage is not just a problem with automobile Mfr being lines down.

Also shipping is an issue, limited container shipping and flights.

Was told the estimated scope availability is end of March 2021.   

Lucky you, SDS2104X Plus we've just ordered have an 8 week production lead time !   
We won't have any in NZ until late May or early June ! 

Yep these scopes are indeed proving to be very popular and the one I delivered yesterday and demonstrated its feature set blew my customer and his staff away.
They couldn't wait for me to bail out so they could get their own little sticky fingers on it. 

[Martin72]

No wonder to me...
Noiseless frontend, 10" display, 50Ohm terminations, a nice variety of measure parameters, professional looking UI, etc..
And this all for only 1400€.

[oz2cpu]

ya know the feeling, I had to write a few times to my distributor and ask when ??
just me impatient..

you know the probe resistor values ? for its auto detect system ?
as far as people say it is just a simple resistor to gnd,
but it could be nice to know the uptimal values for each type of auto detect and auto handle the scope can do ?

just in case we like to make our own (special) probes, as I am in the mittle of right now.

[Martin72]

Don´t know it, but my probes, lecroy pp002, got 10.9Kohms to GND, the siglent detects them proper without any interruptions.

[oz2cpu]

thanks, so that is atleast ONE for the list, (maybe there is an official standard for this ?)
10:1 probe mode 10.9k
I am specially looking for 100:1 resistor value :-)

[tautech]

thanks, so that is atleast ONE for the list, (maybe there is an official standard for this ?)
10:1 probe mode 10.9k

Yep, typically 10k

I am specially looking for 100:1 resistor value :-)

I hope they've fixed this as it wouldn't properly detect Pintek 100x sense probes I have here but I'll measure them and see what the value actually is then maybe dig out a pot and find what the resistance for 100x probe detection actually is....but with a SDS5054X that should be identical to the 2kX Plus in this regard.
Or someone with a Plus can do this as it should be dead simple to work out.

Later as trying to finish an outside job before forecast rain.

[oz2cpu]

I was thinking about 3D printing a POGO pin into a fancy holder that round a BNC for my own 100:1 probe,
so my scope auto detect and goto 100:1 mode, this way the risk of user error is much less.
I have been googling like crasy, but cant find any lists or standard for the scope probe auto detect system.

[mawyatt]

The Siglent SP2030A 300MHz 10X probe reads 11k.

Best

[tautech]

The Siglent SP2030A 300MHz 10X probe reads 11k.

Further data points:
Siglent SP3050A 500 MHz 10x probe sense pin measures 10.66k
Pintek 100x probe sense pin measures 6.16k and is detected correctly as 100x on a SDS5054X.

I was thinking about 3D printing a POGO pin into a fancy holder that round a BNC for my own 100:1 probe,
so my scope auto detect and goto 100:1 mode, this way the risk of user error is much less.
I have been googling like crasy, but cant find any lists or standard for the scope probe auto detect system.

IMO the easiest solution might be a BNC M-F between the probe and the scope with ~6k resistance to the sense ring then the probe BNC remains untouched/original if you just modify the M-F adapter adding a sense resistor and pogo pin.
It's not like it would matter much adding the M-F BNC adapter into the measurement circuit at the sort of frequencies you'd use a 100x probe for.
Could be well worth a suck it and see. 

[oz2cpu]

thanks a lot for the 100:1 resistor value

I am not sure if I understand your BNC male - female adapter idea ?
100:1 is low speed
and I use a short RG58 with a normal BNC connector to the scope
that end I like to make a spring loaded contact, with the right resistor value, so the scope detects and handle it.
I cant be the first to come up with this idea, maybe the design is easy to find for this.

[oz2cpu]

I have been playing with a logic analyzer plug in pcb for Siglet scopes.
see the attached pictures, it is 4 layers,
i am also making a 3D printable design to make it click in and hold in,
hold and secure the cables, this way it is super easy to make your own logic analyzer cables,
any type, and any length you like.

I also plan to make a double BNC holder for this pcb,
so the 3D print hold the two extra BNC inputs, so they are nice and stable for two extra 1:1 probes

if any one is interested, PM me.
EDIT: new isolated thread for this topic
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/diy-logic-analyzer-probe-and-pods-for-siglent-scopes/

[natman69]

@ oz2cpu

Your project for the logic analyzer seems interesting. Please show us your first working prototype. Thx

[oz2cpu]

thanks a lot, the pcb is on its way
so mean while i work with 3D design of the casing
the lock parts are very small, and hard to 3D print,
I am working with several ideas for this, one is even to drop the locking, since you dont really pull the wires
and the connector got a good hold of the pcb anyways.

[mawyatt]

Agree, very interesting project. Had you considered adding some active buffer circuitry like the folks that did so with the Rigol DSO DIY Logic Analyser? Also, had you considered using another connector just for the logic probe wires, this would be on the end of the PCB away from the end that plugs into the scope slot and allow easy replacement (handy with different wire lengths)?

One concern I've had about a DIY Logic Analyser for the Siglent is the possibility of scope damage if the scope logic connector isn't protected internally. Maybe someone knows how this logic connector is wired, I've looked for schematics but no luck.

Anyway, good project and please keep us posted on your progress.

Best, 

Edit: Consider starting a thread just to the Siglent DIY Logic Analyser?

[rf-loop]

Is it bit challenging to find suitable coaxial or twisted pairs ribbon cable. After then also other end of cable need matching and perhaps some protecting circuit before enough short single grabbers wires.
With normal cheap flat ribbon cable it is totally impossible to get good edge response and keep channel to channel attenuation in good level, edges may have quite high frequency components. Or is it only for low frequencies with slow edges. Even if pulse stream is 1MHz but edges are fast they are very easy seen also in other channels, least nearest channels, just as spikes. Most frustrating this is LA probe with high cross talk. As quite all normal ribbon cable models when go bit faster edges.

It is nice that this SPL2016 is totally passive probe unlike Siglent SPL1016 and bit similar some Rigol ones where threshold and buff are in probe. Same/similar/compatible with SPL2016 can find also in some other brand....


SPL2016
Probe Input Impedance 100kΩ||18pF
Maximum Input Data Rate 300 Mbps
Minimum Detectable Pulse Width 3.3ns

But, nice project...

[oz2cpu]

>Same/similar/compatible with SPL2016 can find also in some other brand....

really ? please link ?

>One concern I've had about a DIY Logic Analyser for the Siglent is the possibility of scope damage if the scope logic connector isn't protected internally.

me too, but the original also uses 92k series resistor
hard to kill anything thru such high resistor value

>Had you considered adding some active buffer circuitry

no, not yet, wanted to keep it cheap and simple.
just wanted to sell the pcb's for cost price and let people solder their own 0603 parts and 3D print the shell them self,
most people DIY people got a 3D printer too.

I do find it hard to belive how they handle speeds down to a few nS at impedances in the 100k range,
most likely I will be using the LA for SPI and I2S and such, quite far away from this kind of speed

[rf-loop]

I do find it hard to belive how they handle speeds down to a few nS at impedances in the 100k range,
most likely I will be using the LA for SPI and I2S and such, quite far away from this kind of speed

Perhaps this price explain bit...

You have never seen and used HP logic analyzers. 100k and so on...

[mawyatt]

Is it bit challenging to find suitable coaxial or twisted pairs ribbon cable. After then also other end of cable need matching and perhaps some protecting circuit before enough short single grabbers wires.
With normal cheap flat ribbon cable it is totally impossible to get good edge response and keep channel to channel attenuation in good level, edges may have quite high frequency components. Or is it only for low frequencies with slow edges. Even if pulse stream is 1MHz but edges are fast they are very easy seen also in other channels, least nearest channels, just as spikes. Most frustrating this is LA probe with high cross talk. As quite all normal ribbon cable models when go bit faster edges.

It is nice that this SPL2016 is totally passive probe unlike Siglent SPL1016 and bit similar some Rigol ones where threshold and buff are in probe. Same/similar/compatible with SPL2016 can find also in some other brand....


SPL2016
Probe Input Impedance 100kΩ||18pF
Maximum Input Data Rate 300 Mbps
Minimum Detectable Pulse Width 3.3ns

But, nice project...

Here's an example 3M twisted ribbon cable that should work well for lower speeds that we'll probably use if we decide to do a DIY Logic Probe for the Siglent.

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1377874.pdf

Best,

[mawyatt]

>One concern I've had about a DIY Logic Analyser for the Siglent is the possibility of scope damage if the scope logic connector isn't protected internally.

me too, but the original also uses 92k series resistor
hard to kill anything thru such high resistor value

That's a high value series R and agree not much concern about scope damage.

>Had you considered adding some active buffer circuitry

no, not yet, wanted to keep it cheap and simple.
just wanted to sell the pcb's for cost price and let people solder their own 0603 parts and 3D print the shell them self,
most people DIY people got a 3D printer too.

Assuming one has a 3D printer

I do find it hard to belive how they handle speeds down to a few nS at impedances in the 100k range,
most likely I will be using the LA for SPI and I2S and such, quite far away from this kind of speed

This must place the capacitance in the few picofarads range for fractional volts/ns at those impedance levels, impressive indeed!! Our use at present is just lower speed, like with RPi SPI & I2C bus and I/O while watching a few analog waveforms to/from ADCs and DACs, or stepper motor current/voltage waveforms, or Hall Effect Senors. So nothing fast like watching memory interfaces or such, just simple low-speed stuff. Normally we would just use a cheap standard logic analyzer but having the analog waveforms available is an important consideration since most of our work is more analog related than digital.

Edit: Taking a look at the Siglent SPL2016 (don't have one, never actually used or seen one, so all speculation) it seems they are splitting the interface task into a module that plugs directly into the scope slot and a pair of "pods" which host the actual connection wires which look like ~100mm long. A longer cable (likely are twisted pairs) connects the two pods to the base unit that plugs into the scope slot.

From this setup one might speculate that the pods host active buffer circuitry which convert inputs into differential outputs driving the twisted pair cable back to the base. The base hosts additional active circuitry to convert the differential back to single ended signal that drive the scope connector pins. If true then the ~100k and low capacitance as seen from the connection wires makes sense, as they are not directly connected to the scope connector, nor directly driving the longer cable, but driving some active buffer circuit in the pod. Maybe tautech, rf-loop, or someone with the SPL2016 can enlighten us

Best,

[oz2cpu]

>Assuming one has a 3D printer

if not, just order the shells from me too, I will be happy to help with that too.

oh by the way : I did not find any supply voltage in that LA connector
so adding an active buffer in a digital input probe, was not in the plans from Siglent.

[tautech]

>Same/similar/compatible with SPL2016 can find also in some other brand....

really ? please link ?

Google and eBay is a good place to go looking for SPL2016 lookalikes which is what I did prior to posting these:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/msg3026262/#msg3026262

When I've had time spent some while trying to find who makes them but no luck on that one yet......

[mawyatt]

>Assuming one has a 3D printer

if not, just order the shells from me too, I will be happy to help with that too.

oh by the way : I did not find any supply voltage in that LA connector
so adding an active buffer in a digital input probe, was not in the plans from Siglent.

Well that squashes my edit above

Unless a scope connector pin is controlled an becomes active when the plug is engaged

Thanks I may order the shell and PCB.

Best

[oz2cpu]

thanks again tautech, yes i did see that thread too,
just did not find the one important line i was looking for :-)
did anyone confirm by really trying ? to use any of the other brands LA into a siglent ?
and all channels works, all show up at correct numbers ?

but I did find a few decent pictures of the connector and the press release and buttons,
from this i got the idea: let me drop my own home invented 3D design,
and much rather make one that looks a lot more like the original :-)
but for this, I need a lot more and better pictures, also prefered on the internal parts, how easy is it to open ?
please PM or Email me pictures ? if you got the time, Thanks in Advance.
EDIT:
new isolated thread for this topic
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/diy-logic-analyzer-probe-and-pods-for-siglent-scopes/