Author Topic: Siglent SDS2000X Plus  (Read 982381 times)

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Offline Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1125 on: May 11, 2020, 08:17:41 pm »
Bode plotting slowing the system massively down - Maybe the dips representing a shortly interruption from the bode "programm" to do something else.

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Offline TK

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1126 on: May 11, 2020, 08:43:48 pm »
Bode plotting slowing the system massively down - Maybe the dips representing a shortly interruption from the bode "programm" to do something else.
Not the case if the dip repeats at the same frequency in multiple runs
 

Offline maginnovision

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1127 on: May 11, 2020, 08:50:36 pm »
That does not make sense if it happens with internal awg where it can take all day to take a measurement and still get a proper plot since it's in control of the awg.
 

Offline thinkfat

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1128 on: May 11, 2020, 09:23:56 pm »
That does not make sense if it happens with internal awg where it can take all day to take a measurement and still get a proper plot since it's in control of the awg.

It works only with Siglent AWG's it can control...
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Offline thinkfat

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1129 on: May 11, 2020, 09:25:16 pm »
Does it happen in "Vout/Vin" mode and also in "Vout" mode?
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Offline maginnovision

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1130 on: May 11, 2020, 09:53:32 pm »
That does not make sense if it happens with internal awg where it can take all day to take a measurement and still get a proper plot since it's in control of the awg.

It works only with Siglent AWG's it can control...

That's my point. It controls the input and should be reading input and output. Getting spikes like that wouldn't be about the program being busy with some other task it would simply slow down the operation not cause errors.
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1131 on: May 11, 2020, 10:02:49 pm »
That does not make sense if it happens with internal awg where it can take all day to take a measurement and still get a proper plot since it's in control of the awg.

It works only with Siglent AWG's it can control...

That's my point. It controls the input and should be reading input and output. Getting spikes like that wouldn't be about the program being busy with some other task it would simply slow down the operation not cause errors.
Why do you think that? Algorithm is usually not adaptive. It probably simply changes frequency, waits for signal to settle, takes measurements (for averaging), moves on..
On each frequency point it will need dwell time, and that will be variable with frequency. Maybe it simply doesn't wait enough for siggen to settle, or measuring too quick ...
It would be useful to take a look with another scope...
 

Offline maginnovision

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1132 on: May 11, 2020, 10:20:50 pm »
That's what I suspect, it's not monitoring input and assuming gen is ready when that's not the case. If you're reading the input and output it'd be a software bug or hardware failure. If the program got busy it'd just slow things down. Not sure how it could possibly cause errors in the plot.
 

Offline Elasia

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1133 on: May 11, 2020, 10:31:14 pm »
Simple and stupid is what i think...

a race condition; which several of you are alluding too

Now where? Hard to say other than its reading an incorrect value at somewhere in its logic path
 

Offline stafil

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1134 on: May 12, 2020, 06:25:45 am »
I think I found a bug.

After rebooting the box, the vertical position of the channels is where I left them, but the channel markers and info are wrong.

In the specific example the vertical offset was set to -3V for C1 and -1V for C2.

The restored values displayed are -300mV and -100mV.

However the waveform is offset correctly.

I think they don't take into consideration that the probes are 10X


 

Offline thinkfat

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1135 on: May 12, 2020, 07:04:19 am »
Simple and stupid is what i think...

a race condition; which several of you are alluding too

Now where? Hard to say other than its reading an incorrect value at somewhere in its logic path

A race condition is not going to lead to repeatable errors like this. The invalid point is constant over many sweeps, as I understand. There seems to be no randomness, other than the bug appearing sometimes and not another time, but when it's there, it's there over many sweeps.
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Offline Frex

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1136 on: May 12, 2020, 03:23:40 pm »

Simple and stupid is what i think...

a race condition; which several of you are alluding too

Now where? Hard to say other than its reading an incorrect value at somewhere in its logic path

A race condition is not going to lead to repeatable errors like this. The invalid point is constant over many sweeps, as I understand. There seems to be no randomness, other than the bug appearing sometimes and not another time, but when it's there, it's there over many sweeps.

Hello,

I don't know for others, but for me the error point is not always the same.
You can see on previous posts the different results.
Sometime one points, sometimes two...
The error point is always at low frequency (<1kHz).

Frex
 

Offline Elasia

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1137 on: May 12, 2020, 03:45:22 pm »
Simple and stupid is what i think...

a race condition; which several of you are alluding too

Now where? Hard to say other than its reading an incorrect value at somewhere in its logic path

A race condition is not going to lead to repeatable errors like this. The invalid point is constant over many sweeps, as I understand. There seems to be no randomness, other than the bug appearing sometimes and not another time, but when it's there, it's there over many sweeps.

Mine is random and not in the same place

Should also note the only consistent part i've seen so far is that its always sub 100Hz, just going to let it run all day and let it churn at 10Hz to 120Mhz
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 03:50:38 pm by Elasia »
 

Offline Elasia

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1138 on: May 12, 2020, 05:51:47 pm »
Got another one, twice just over 100Hz
 

Offline Elasia

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1139 on: May 12, 2020, 06:46:26 pm »
I just happened to be looking at it when it did one just now

Maybe not a delay.. i think they just got something wrong somewhere, my scope made a clicking noise like it was changing a relay or something

So... what is triggering it to want to do this relay flip?

Yep it did it again... it clicks THEN the error in the graph shows up
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1140 on: May 12, 2020, 06:59:17 pm »
It might be something simple like autoranging during sampling.... Does it have autoranging and adaptive level?

Maybe something like this from another FRA :

"Outstanding bugs
The method of changing frequencies results in discontinuities in the function generator output. When in AC coupling mode, the DC offsets introduced by these discontinuities take some time to settle out. The program tries to adapt to this, but is not perfect. The main issue is at very low frequencies where there can be a DC offset decay that appears in the captured data. This is largely compensated by the DFT, but may affect noise measurement.
"
 

Offline tv84

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1141 on: May 12, 2020, 07:31:19 pm »
I would say that description fits like a glove.
 

Offline thinkfat

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1142 on: May 12, 2020, 07:33:39 pm »
It might be something simple like autoranging during sampling.... Does it have autoranging and adaptive level?

Maybe something like this from another FRA :

"Outstanding bugs
The method of changing frequencies results in discontinuities in the function generator output. When in AC coupling mode, the DC offsets introduced by these discontinuities take some time to settle out. The program tries to adapt to this, but is not perfect. The main issue is at very low frequencies where there can be a DC offset decay that appears in the captured data. This is largely compensated by the DFT, but may affect noise measurement.
"

Yes, it does autoranging if you let it. But IIRC, @Frex mentioned that the error happens also without autoranging.
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Online 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1143 on: May 12, 2020, 07:57:37 pm »
It might be something simple like autoranging during sampling.... Does it have autoranging and adaptive level?

Maybe something like this from another FRA :

"Outstanding bugs
The method of changing frequencies results in discontinuities in the function generator output. When in AC coupling mode, the DC offsets introduced by these discontinuities take some time to settle out. The program tries to adapt to this, but is not perfect. The main issue is at very low frequencies where there can be a DC offset decay that appears in the captured data. This is largely compensated by the DFT, but may affect noise measurement.
"

Yes, it does autoranging if you let it. But IIRC, @Frex mentioned that the error happens also without autoranging.

I mentioned autoranging for completeness, thank you for letting me know, didn't catch that what Frex said. I personally think it's probably something similar to that settling bug mentioned...symptoms look exactly like that..
 
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Offline stafil

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1144 on: May 12, 2020, 11:19:09 pm »
Sorry to divert the conversation from Bode Plotting, but is anyone else annoyed by the "Sequence" a.k.a segmented memory mode?

If one configures it to capture X amount of frames, and then receive X+1 frames, it just wipes out the previous memory and starts from scratch.

I would expect it to either stop at X frames and go into History mode, or just use a circular buffer. Not wipe out ALL the old frames.

 

Online 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1145 on: May 12, 2020, 11:42:19 pm »
Sorry to divert the conversation from Bode Plotting, but is anyone else annoyed by the "Sequence" a.k.a segmented memory mode?

If one configures it to capture X amount of frames, and then receive X+1 frames, it just wipes out the previous memory and starts from scratch.

I would expect it to either stop at X frames and go into History mode, or just use a circular buffer. Not wipe out ALL the old frames.
It should stop after acquiring  X frames.
 

Offline stafil

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1146 on: May 12, 2020, 11:55:06 pm »
Sorry to divert the conversation from Bode Plotting, but is anyone else annoyed by the "Sequence" a.k.a segmented memory mode?

If one configures it to capture X amount of frames, and then receive X+1 frames, it just wipes out the previous memory and starts from scratch.

I would expect it to either stop at X frames and go into History mode, or just use a circular buffer. Not wipe out ALL the old frames.
It should stop after acquiring  X frames.

That's what I was expecting too, but it doesn't:

 

Offline Elasia

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1147 on: May 13, 2020, 12:11:10 am »
They've never done a good job at frames/segments...  :--

I just make it work and dump the data before hitting it again
 
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Offline stafil

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1148 on: May 13, 2020, 12:13:42 am »
They've never done a good job at frames/segments...  :--

I just make it work and dump the data before hitting it again

Yeah, doesn't look like this is specific to a model. I see same behavior on the SDS1000X-E too.
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X Plus
« Reply #1149 on: May 13, 2020, 06:47:50 am »
Sorry to divert the conversation from Bode Plotting, but is anyone else annoyed by the "Sequence" a.k.a segmented memory mode?

If one configures it to capture X amount of frames, and then receive X+1 frames, it just wipes out the previous memory and starts from scratch.

I would expect it to either stop at X frames and go into History mode, or just use a circular buffer. Not wipe out ALL the old frames.
It should stop after acquiring  X frames.

That's what I was expecting too, but it doesn't:


What happens if you press single instead of run?
 
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