Siglent SDS2000X Plus - Bugs / Missing Features / Feature Requests

[tautech]

Being able to configure a WiFi dongle is not standard yet. But since Siglent have this feature in the lower-end scopes, and actually have the RTL8188 driver up and running on the X+, it seems like low-hanging fruit and a nice differentiator.

You don't need a wifi dongle if it's that important to you. You can connect a TL-WR902AC or TL-WR802N or similar to connect your scope via wifi. The wifi dongle idea limits your ability for range and speed.

This ^

You configure them in bridge mode where they become totally invisible to the WiFi network and can also be used on any LAN capable instrument for WiFi connectivity. < done it and these USB powered LAN > WiFi adaptors work just like magic.


While typing this another thought comes to mind that I have yet to try is using one in conjunction with a switch so to provide a # of LAN capable devices with LAN > WiFi connectivity....no reason why it won't work and therefore becomes far more useful than a single USB WiFi dongle providing connectivity to only a single instrument.

[ebastler]

Improvement is continual......just as it should be.
However development teams currently also have a lot on their plate......

That summarizes my concerns nicely. Improvement is continual, until it peters out because the company's attention shifts to newer products. Where is the SDS2000X+ on that curve?

No doubt it was a great buy 2 or 3 years ago (when I was not in the market for a new scope). But what I am tempted to read into the various comments made here is that it has reached the limit of its technical capabilities -- due to its memory architecture, a not-so-powerful CPU, combined with the ambitious approach of doing everything on full-resolution data.

As mentioned before, the 2000X+ is still the best match for my needs today. But "today" seems to be a time where next-generation scopes in its price bracket will hit the market soon -- be it the SDS1000 HD from Siglent or a DHO1000 upgrade with LA and AWG from Rigol. I don't see the commitment (or ability) from Siglent to keep the X+ fresh in that situation, but rather a focus on the newer 2000 HD and 1000 HD, positioned somewhat above and below it.

So maybe today is not the time to buy a scope in this price range at all, if I don't have an immediate need?

[tautech]

Improvement is continual......just as it should be.
However development teams currently also have a lot on their plate......

That summarizes my concerns nicely. Improvement is continual, until it peters out because the company's attention shifts to newer products. Where is the SDS2000X+ on that curve?

It still has bugs and improvements required to become equivalent to later models.

[2N3055]

That summarizes my concerns nicely. Improvement is continual, until it peters out because the company's attention shifts to newer products. Where is the SDS2000X+ on that curve?

Your concern is your prerogative.
Products are supported until there are no bugs to fix and platform cannot accept new stuff.
Where is SDS2000X+? Still in the active support, like we already said.

I have never said improvement is guaranteed. No A brand improves their products unless they are really forced. And then only for newly bought product. For instance, on Keysight 3000T if you bought full bundle, and later Keysight added new protocols, you would not get those. You have to buy them separately.

As example of big chunk of development I will mention rewrite of part of acquisition engine to support filters that were not even  in the stars when platform was devised. Since you do understand the complexity you'll get my meaning.

As I said, Keysight's last release of FW for 1200 Series was 2 years ago. Same as R&S RTB2000. These scopes don't have a fraction of functions SDS2000X+ has. RTB2000 is a bit closer for 4x the price. Nice scope though.

There is simply no reason to release anything on predefined schedule.  Nobody does that. And releasing some trivial things just to be able to say you released something is something that is being done for software products on rent/lease/subscription. And is done just for reasons to justify why people are paying for subscription. No additional quality stems from it. Quite the opposite most the time. Kudos to those exceptions that still do the good job despite.

As for competition and other models, they all have a place under the sun.
Rigol DHO1000, apart from 12 bit is otherwise simpleton scope in comparison. New SDS1000X HD will be class above.
Rigol DHO1000 MSO is a figment of imagination of Rigol fans. There is not a peep of anything like that on horizon.. not even a rumor from China...

By that logic it is never the right time to buy anything. There is always some new, prettier, shinier, glossier, more fancy product just few months away...

[KungFuJosh]

By that logic it is never the right time to buy anything. There is always some new, prettier, shinier, glossier, more fancy product just few months away...

In other words, we should all buy SDS7404A scopes.

[Martin72]

I will put aside a hundred every month and in just under 23 years' time I will be ready.

[Martin72]

As mentioned before, the 2000X+ is still the best match for my needs today. But "today" seems to be a time where next-generation scopes in its price bracket will hit the market soon -- be it the SDS1000 HD from Siglent or a DHO1000 upgrade with LA and AWG from Rigol. I don't see the commitment (or ability) from Siglent to keep the X+ fresh in that situation, but rather a focus on the newer 2000 HD and 1000 HD, positioned somewhat above and below it.

So maybe today is not the time to buy a scope in this price range at all, if I don't have an immediate need?

Define "Next Generation"...
The rigol you outlined does not exist, perhaps in the minds of some who hope that something better than now avaible will come along.
And even then, such a model would "only" have the 12 bit as an advantage, nothing else.
With the 1000X HD it looks a little different, but basically the same, higher resolution, but less memory and sample rate (with 4 channels).
But that's a bit off-topic here.
You haven't even got your hands on the 2k+ yet, but you're worried that it won't be any better than it already is.
Relax..

[ebastler]

Relax..

... says the guy who had the X+ when it was in its prime (relative to the market), and has since traded it for something better (and more expensive). 

[Martin72]

If you can and want to spend more than twice as much then do it.
The HD is currently the only scope that partially outperforms the Xplus and that comes at a price.
For me last year it was a fun purchase, nothing more.
It was only later that I noticed the benefits.
I am not a benchmark.
Read the only review on Batronix, it came from me and I still stand by it to this day.

[KungFuJosh]

I will put aside a hundred every month and in just under 23 years' time I will be ready.

Imagine the amazing scope you'll get for that price in 23 years though! It will probably just be a chip for your brain, and no comment on where the probes plug in. 😇😉

[Performa01]

I want my scope to be and remain stable. That's what I care about. The biggest bug that bugs me is the popup not going away on its own after taking a screenshot. I'm pretty sure that's going to be taken care of in the next firmware update.

Yes, V1.6.0 takes care of that.

This is a perfect example how too much "listening to customers" can easily backfire.

The feature has been introduced with the last official firmware (I think) and it had annoyed everyone in the beta team. Both the fact that the box pops up and won't go away by itself and also the prediction of the file name for the next screenshot, which is just annoying nonsense, because even an idiot can predict it themselves and doesn't need the help of the DSO for this, all the more so as the prediction can be plain wrong, e.g. when the user pulls the Flash Drive, in which case the next screenshot would go to the internal memory.

Yet this had been a customer request.

We had to make clear that even customers are just humans that make nonsensical requests at times.

So the final solution can already be seen in the SDS2000X HD:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-hd-missing-features-and-bugs/msg5114079/#msg5114079

[tautech]

So the final solution can already be seen in the SDS2000X HD:

And it already exists in SDS1000X HD and SDS6000A.

Screenshot message management must be consistent across the product range.

[KungFuJosh]

Gimme!

[Slartibartfast]

I will put aside a hundred every month and in just under 23 years' time I will be ready.

Imagine the amazing scope you'll get for that price in 23 years though! It will probably just be a chip for your brain, and no comment on where the probes plug in. 😇😉

This discussion ist so tiring, every so many years over and over again. In the 1990ies plenty of people warned against buying a new PC, better wait a year, and get more for the money. Don't remember the fad in the 2000s, but in the 2010s it was about smartphones, where prices would drop in a couple months 'cos the next model would come out. Now with scopes.


When will people manage to wrap their brain around the simple fact that in rapidly evolving technology there is no such thing as "the right time to buy", at least from the bang-for-the-buck perspective?

Cheers  Peter

[KungFuJosh]

When will people manage to wrap their brain around the simple fact that in rapidly evolving technology there is no such thing as "the right time to buy", at least from the bang-for-the-buck perspective?

That's simply not true. There is a right time to buy if you're looking for better pricing. Certain times of year give better discounts. Whether you pay $1000 or $1400 for the SDS2104XP depends on whether or not they're running a sale.

With phones specifically, you're especially wrong. What phone manufacturers do from one year to the next is usually stupid BS like mostly the same phone with a slightly faster processor. Not exciting. They also hide downgrades without mentioning them.

My phone is a OnePlus 9 Pro. I bought it when the 10 Pro was fairly new and going on sale with better pricing. The 9 Pro is a better phone with more antennas for better versatility with different providers. The 10 Pro reduced the amount of antennas and added a faster chip. There's a number of reasons I won't bore you with why the previous gen was better. I got my phone for a much better price with double the memory. I could have got another for half what I paid when they finally clearanced them out a few months later.

The point being if you know what you're looking at, and familiar with the actual specs of the devices you're comparing, you can make smarter choices.

[Slartibartfast]

The point being if you know what you're looking at, and familiar with the actual specs of the devices you're comparing, you can make smarter choices.

That's useless in the context. The one thing that might help is knowing exactly what you need, and not getting tempted by new features that beforehand were deemed not to be needed. But even then the thought would pop up that the very set of features deemed to be needed may be available cheaper next year. So in addition, you'd need to set a budget, buy, when the features fit into the budget, and better not keep looking at prices.

On the other hand, understanding that a general "right time to buy" doesn't exist provides for the relaxed attitude that allows you to look at future prices without regret.

Cheers  Peter

PS.: Better forget about sales. If you deem your own time to be worth anything, then you'll find that looking out for when the device you want is on sale costs you so much time that in the end you paid more than just paying the normal price. With sales, you just trade in time and effort for a little price reduction.

[KungFuJosh]

PS.: Better forget about sales. If you deem your own time to be worth anything, then you'll find that looking out for when the device you want is on sale costs you so much time that in the end you paid more than just paying the normal price. With sales, you just trade in time and effort for a little price reduction.

That depends on whether or not somebody is in a hurry. I wouldn't wait 2 months to save $20. OTOH, if you already have a scope, and you want something better, saving $400 off of a $1400 scope is significant. If you can't wait, you can't wait. Those are different situations. You can't speak for everyone regarding the urgency of their purchase or the specs they require. Pricing is more of a concern for hobbyists/home users than what most corporate budgets care about. But whatever, I'm content with my SDS2504XP. I'd be surprised if I ever need anything better. 🤷

[Slartibartfast]

Wondering if this is a bug in the I2C decoder.

The screenshot shows a READ operation of 4 bytes from a standard 2kBit EEPROM, connected by a I2C bus that has somewhat borderline pull-up resistors. Even though being borderline, bus semantics are properly followed, as you can see by close inspection. First we see the dummy write, setting the internal address register to 0. Then, without a STOP, but with a START, a read operation commences. The address (0xA1) is decoded fine, and also the first byte sent by the EEPROM (0xFE). Then, for no apparent reason, the decoder looses sync and fails to decode the following byte (red arrow). Following bytes (green arrow) are decoded wrong, more specifically, they are shifted by one bit. Interestingly, on a following bus operation (not shown in the screenshot), the bits are also shifted in the same way, even though a STOP and a following START condition would have provided the opportunity for the decoder to re-sync.

What do you think? Bug?

Cheers  Peter

PS.: I've added two screenshots. The first one shows the mentioned failure to recognise a STOP/START condition for resynchronisation. The second one shows where it, after loosing sync, suddenly starts decoding a new command, that on the bus would require a START condition (at least), where obviously there is none. The C3 trace shows low-pulses where a ACK/NACK just has been transmitted, and the first bit of the next byte is about to start.

[tautech]

Without a CS try adding some Trigger Holdoff.
The packet above is ~200us long, try adding 250-300us to prevent the tigger rearming before the packet is finished.

[Slartibartfast]

Why do you think triggering is related to the issue?

From my point of view, there are traces that show signals from a specific time window of 200µs at some instance in time. This acquired data is what the decoder has to work on. Now, it is clear that if the traces would start right in the middle of an ongoing transmission, the decoder has nothing to sync on at the beginning of the trace, but even then it should resynchronise when it sees START or STOP conditions. But even that is not the case. The trace starts at a time when the bus is idle, and consequently the decoder start decoding porperly, and then suddenly looses sync. Later in the trace, the decoded information is inconsistent with the traces. This should not happen.

I completely fail to see any connection to the triggering.

Please note I'm not triggering on a bus event, but use normal edge-type triggering.

Cheers  Peter

[Martin72]

Why do you think triggering is related to the issue?

I never got the I²C signal from the Batronix demo board to trigger properly.
But when I stopped and scrolled through the table, the data was visible without dropouts.

[MathWizard]

Well 1 thing that's going bad, is my new probes that came with the sds2204x+. I really haven't used the scope that much, but already, my green probe gets attenuated maybe 20-30% when sitting in certain positions. It seems to be at the end where the probe meets the coax cable.

Now the same thing happened to my other Siglent probe sets, and similar ones I bought online once. But none as quick as the new problem one. I try to be careful with them, so IDK what's happened.



How hard is it to repair these, do you need some special tools and parts? Maybe it's not worth it, or too hard to do it right.

Any other uses for the cable  ? I know it's not regular 50R coax.

[tautech]

Why do you think triggering is related to the issue?

The spikes on Ch2 here:

From my point of view, there are traces that show signals from a specific time window of 200µs at some instance in time. This acquired data is what the decoder has to work on. Now, it is clear that if the traces would start right in the middle of an ongoing transmission, the decoder has nothing to sync on at the beginning of the trace, but even then it should resynchronise when it sees START or STOP conditions. But even that is not the case. The trace starts at a time when the bus is idle, and consequently the decoder start decoding porperly, and then suddenly looses sync. Later in the trace, the decoded information is inconsistent with the traces. This should not happen.

I completely fail to see any connection to the triggering.

225us trigger offset is NOT Holdoff !

Please note I'm not triggering on a bus event, but use normal edge-type triggering.

Totally understood and I can see this in the Trigger tab. 
Using Holdoff and a Falling Edge for simple decoding illustrations is how I do it too but to trigger on specific bits one must use a decode trigger.

Holdoff is never shown/displayed so set it to a bit longer than a packet and show us the result.

[ebastler]

But acquisition is stopped. The data signal is right there with all the bits, and a clean-looking clock too. Why can't it be decoded? I also fail to see how triggering could get in the way.

[tautech]

Well 1 thing that's going bad, is my new probes that came with the sds2204x+. I really haven't used the scope that much, but already, my green probe gets attenuated maybe 20-30% when sitting in certain positions. It seems to be at the end where the probe meets the coax cable.

Now the same thing happened to my other Siglent probe sets, and similar ones I bought online once. But none as quick as the new problem one. I try to be careful with them, so IDK what's happened.



How hard is it to repair these, do you need some special tools and parts? Maybe it's not worth it, or too hard to do it right.

Any other uses for the cable  ? I know it's not regular 50R coax.

P215 probes ?
Claim warranty. Probes = 1 year.