Siglent SDS2000X Plus - Bugs / Missing Features / Feature Requests

[2N3055]

This is not really a bug, it was more of a question, that did not seem to have an answer.

I have been reading the SDS2100+ manual in printed format, but it would probably be easier in to read it in electronic form. It may take awhile for me to get used to the format.  I like to read the overview for context first, then look at the details (like hypertext). This manual mostly gives lots of step by step details.

The details are spread out loosely over so many printed pages, one needs to find the right detail in a separate section. The step by step format makes it hard to see the big picture for the details.

The search function for words in the PDF file do not seem to work for me.

In Bode mode, none of the buttons seemed to be able to hold the sweep. Stop & Print did nothing as far as I could tell from the zero response. I could try to save (but will not save while sweeping the data on the screen), but could not stop the sweep without the screen erasing.

The answer is probably obvious, once I know what the answer is.

Can't you just stop sweep on touchscreen button that you used to start the sweep?
Also you should be able to set the sweep to do single sweep and stop.

[rf-loop]

In Bode mode, none of the buttons seemed to be able to hold the sweep. Stop & Print did nothing as far as I could tell from the zero response. I could try to save (but will not save while sweeping the data on the screen), but could not stop the sweep without the screen erasing.

In Bode mode, none of the buttons seemed to be able to hold the sweep.

If you mean "hold sweep" as stop sweep and stay in this position and keep measurement still active just in this stopped frequency position... there is not this kind of "hold sweep" function. 
If you want this kind of function please explain some important case when this function is needed or useful.

But, if you want only stop it, during sweep, to some position. Just select  "Operation" and  [Off]
It stops sweeping and leave bodeplot screen just as it was when turn "Operation" [Off].
Also in this situation you have full control to vertical adjustments for amplitude and phase. Even things what are outside of top or bottom they all are there. All what is plot as visible traces are totally secondary. Whole heart of BodePlot is data table inside system. When it run it write this Bode Plot primary data table.  From this data table it draw traces and if you select data table visible, this is highly reduced data table and only one channel table derived from whole primary table(s).  No need go further deep now...

When you have stopped it. If you then select "Operation [On]  it do not continue from position it was stopped. it start whole new stepping sweep from defined start frequency.
It is of course stepping sweep.
It command generator to some frequency and level (if mode is Vari-Level it can also change level during sweep as user have defined, whole sweep can be frequencysweep combined with level sweep). After then BP look levels and if need adjust optimal sensitivity (automatic level control)  and after then it start measure. And this measurement "receiver" is also frequency selective. It do not listen other than just this step frequency. (of course with some RBW what not very narrow)
No need  go to further deep...  Last image show this RBW when frequency is 450kHz. This have NOTHING to do with resolution. Resolution come from sweep steps and device under test. (This freq. selectivity  reduce noise and eliminate some possible DUT generated spurs)

This make it bit slow but advantage is high dynamic range. It can be Up To 140dB what is really lot.  Down from 0dBm still always better than -80dB  and depending frequency and noise criteria even down to -100dB. Upside rejecting factor is oscilloscope maximum input level. It can handle this range in every single sweep step! Down to 1Hz steps if span is 500Hz.
It sweep more fast if turn Automatic level control off (Channel gain control [Auto] / [Hold]. Hold is ALC off).

Stop & Print did nothing as far as I could tell from the zero response.

Please explain what you try tell. And what is Stop&Print

When scope is in FRA aka BodePlot mode oscilloscope front panel button [Run/Stop] have no function. As told previously BP have its own on/off button in its menu but there is not physical button in front panel.

When scope is in BP mode front panel physical button [Print]  works just normally, when ever you push it, it take snap shot from TFT and save image to USB flash in BMP, jpg or png format. And there I will recommend using only png if not some real important reason to use others. BMP is slow. Jpg smudge image because in this case it use usual lossy packaging. Png do lossless packaging and image file sizes are small.
When you push Print button it do not suspend anything, it take just copy from current TFT frame.

I could try to save (but will not save while sweeping the data on the screen), but could not stop the sweep without the screen erasing.

What you mean with this "save".
If you mean save screen image, just look previous.

If you mean saving bode plot full resolution full sweep primary data table. This can not do when BodePlot is running.
In this case need first do "Operation" [Off]
It leave sweep trace visible.

After then you go to BodePlot "Data" menu.
You select "Save" in this menu and then you see menu for select where you want save it and for give name for file. It save whole data table in .CSV form.

And btw, if you have this saved primary data table. If you some day want look it with scope BodePlot function.
Just Recall this table back tp scope. All is just as it was when it was originally when it was working, it draw trace(s) and you can adjust vertical positions and zoom vertically in and out as you want, but not horizontally.
Because it is just this primary data table what are heart of whole Bode Plot.

So, during sweep you can stop it in what ever position. After start again it start from new sweep from start freq.
Always, when ever it is running or stopped you press Print hardware button and it save TFT image to USB.
For saving hidden primary data table you need stop it and save.

All these images have saved during sweep. One is saved durig first sweep so trace is not full.
Others are saved during continuous sweep.
Note this one image red trace go over screen bottom. Still its data is there... even if it goes far away until noise bottom. And same if happen top border. All is there..  just change scale or move window up or down...  because all is in primary data table and what trace is plotted to screen is only secondary thing. Also visible data table data resolution is really highly truncated from primary table. Primary data table have full resolution... more than enough.

Here four sample images using "Print" button.



In this image sweep was just started and during sweep adjusted manually some vertical scale and reference levels and then pushed "Print" button... without suspending sweep, just on the fly.




Here continuing sweep and position where is its going is this small ball in trace. Just Print button snap shot on the fly.




Here continuing sweep and position where is its going is this small ball in trace. Just Print button snap shot on the fly.




Here Bode Plot "Operation" [Off] and after then Print button for this image.  And when it is [Off] also if want, full resolution primary data table can save to USB in .CSV format what then can open in exel, open office/libre office, and many other softwares what can handle CSV data, or just read it in notepad if one is some kind of masochist..




As told prevuiously and many many times,  Siglent SFRA is working as frequency selective level meter. Generator sweeps and syncronously receiver also sweep and using some RBW filter. Here example what is RBW filter when freq position is 450kHz. RBW width is not constant, it is variable and it automatically change rlaltive to current frequency point. User can not change it.
There is one disadvantage in this method.  DUT output frequency need be sqame as DUT input frequency. It can not sweep measure devices what convert frequency, example mixers etc.
Perhaps, I hope, some day Siglent add one selection for user so that user can select selectivity off or on. Just as selective and  full  BW. Of course wide have not same dynamic but some times this may be useful. ALC on/off there is but not freq. selectivity on/off.

[kev_in_cornwall]

I've recently been using the AWG a fair bit, and wanted to adjust the frequency over a small range (<1Hz in 10kHz) using the "universal" knob but it seems to only be able to control the second most significant digit (1kHz in 10kHz). I have had to resort to typing each frequency which is painful  . Am I missing something, and is there a way to adjust which digit the "universal knob" controls? If not could it be added (something like pressing the "universal knob" to cycle through the digits).  Hopefully it can already be done and I am just being a bit dim.

[Martin72]

The awg function is a little bit rudimentary as it doesn´t got sweeps for example.
Hopefully, they "fixed" it in a future update( for me it doesn´t matter, I got an sdg1062X)
By the way...
Last update was in november 2020, maybe the next would be a real "big one"...
(Or they´re busy with other projects...)

[kev_in_cornwall]

It should be a very simple modification to make pressing the "universal knob" change the scaling when the knob is rotated so hopefully they will see this and implement it sometime soon. The main "vertical knob" already works in a similar way.

[Michael YYZ]

I found a small but important typo in the User Manual (UM0102XP-E01B):

On page 216/335, the Main Lobe Width for the Rectangle Window should read 4π/N and not 23π/N.

I’ve found some other typos along the way (e.g. missing reference - in Chinese! - for item F on page 205/335, or references to nonexistent keys or buttons on the control panel, these being probably carryovers from the SPS5000X manual) but the one above is more relevant, I think, and should be corrected in a future version of the Manual.

[Michael YYZ]

Firmware version: 1.3.7R5. Here is a GUI bug/typo which I found:

• The icons for rise and fall time in the Horizontal Measure Select screen are reversed. The "10-90%Rise" and "90-10%Fall" options are graphically depicted with L/U and U/L, whereas the user-adjustable options "Rise Time" and "Fall time" are illustrated graphically by 10/90 and 90/10. See screenshot.

This may sound like a small issue but it proves that attention to detail is far from the best for this Chinese manufacturer. And this is to say nothing about the many errors, typos and omissions I found by RTFMing! 

[Michael YYZ]

Firmware version: 1.3.7R5.  Checking out the effect of ERES on random noise, as follows:

• C1 = Random noise from the AWG
• C3 = Square wave from the probe calibration port
• F1 = C1 + C3
• F2 = ERES (F1)

The 0.5-bit option for ERES is greyed out and cannot be selected. Note that only the 0.5-bit option is affected.

The ERES 0.5-bit option does not work regardless if the ADC is set to 8 or 10 bits.

However, ERES 0.5-bit works for ERES(C1), but not for ERES(F1). I did not test the Digital or Reference channels.

[Michael YYZ]

Firmware version: 1.3.7R5.  Setting up the user-adjustable rise- and fall-time measurements under Measure -> Menu -> Config -> Threshold ->Type. Once can select the Type between 'Percent' and 'Absolute'.

• C1 = Sine wave from the AWG, 1kHz
• C3 = Square wave from the probe calibration port
• F1 = C1 + C3

The Percent option appears to be working fine.

The Absolute option does not work for for the direct input channels, e.g. C1, C3, etc. The error reported is: "Invalid threshold", irrespective of the Upper/Middle/Lower voltage values selected. However the Absolute option functions apparently just fine for the Math channels, e.g. F1(C1+C3). I did not test the Digital or Reference channels.

In the screenshots provided the Absolute voltage values are calculated to match the Percentage values, and the Absolute measurement setting clearly does not work for the C channels.

[roberthh]

@Michael YYZ Did you ever mention the firmware version used for your test?

[Michael YYZ]

I presumed, incorrectly obviously, that people would assume it’s the current (i.e. latest) firmware version. I went back and added this important information to my three previous posts. Thank you for pointing this out to me.

@Michael YYZ Did you ever mention the firmware version used for your test?

[seronday]

The Absolute option does not work for for the direct input channels, e.g. C1, C3, etc. The error reported is: "Invalid threshold", irrespective of the Upper/Middle/Lower voltage values selected. However the Absolute option functions apparently just fine for the Math channels, e.g. F1(C1+C3). I did not test the Digital or Reference channels.

The X10 probe setting in the vertical menu is not being used correctly by the software.
If you change to X1 in the vertical settings menu, and adjust the threshold values to suit, the absolute thresholds will work.

It will also work with X10 probe setting in the vertical menu if you use the threshold values fo X1 setting.

Regards.

[Michael YYZ]

Gosh! I checked and you are perfectly correct.  Thank you!

The voltage threshold and the resulting measured values are indeed correct if the probe and the scope's software settings are set to 1X.

However, on 10X (and likely on other probe ratios as well, other than 1X) the scope's software does not correct the threshold voltage values with the factor of the probe. This results in the set threshold values being far above and below the pk-pk voltage of the trace and leads to failed measurements. One would have to reduce the voltage threshold values manually by the factor of the probe, e.g. divide the voltage by 10X for 10X probes, etc. I have posted screenshots for exemplification.

In my opinion, this is a serious bug ; I wonder, however, if people from Siglent read these posts and really care about fixing these issues.  If not, at least we are helping each other here. 

The X10 probe setting in the vertical menu is not being used correctly by the software.
If you change to X1 in the vertical settings menu, and adjust the threshold values to suit, the absolute thresholds will work.

It will also work with X10 probe setting in the vertical menu if you use the threshold values fo X1 setting.

Regards.

[Keith956]

When using digital channels, I want to be able to rename some of the digital channel labels. Fine, but I cannot see a way to get overbars. Sure I can write OEBAR but I'd rather have OE with a overbar.

Is this something that can be added to the channel setup keyboard?

[TK]

When using digital channels, I want to be able to rename some of the digital channel labels. Fine, but I cannot see a way to get overbars. Sure I can write OEBAR but I'd rather have OE with a overbar.

Is this something that can be added to the channel setup keyboard?

You can use ~OE instead

[Martin72]

Last FW update was nearly a half year ago...Do we get Rigol behaviours now....

[Michael YYZ]

Terrible thought, Martin!
It's okay for a bug-free device, but this one is clearly not.
One reason for which I selected Siglent vs. Rigol was the apparent tree-month firmware update cycle... which appears now to be broken.

Last FW update was nearly a half year ago...Do we get Rigol behaviours now....

[2N3055]

Still no worse than R&S... 
And I, for one, wouldn't like if they would release minor updates just to release something.
Some changes require serious testing and need time.

That is the reason why R&S releases on quite sparse schedule.
For bugs you need to analyse bug and find a problem, devise solution (sometimes there will be dozen of potential solutions, and you need to chose which one to implement), test it in isolation, integrate it, test integration, then test for regressions (that you didn't create new bugs somewhere else), then create and test installation... Then you release to beta, and if that goes well, it gets released.
That is a short, very simplified version.
These scopes are quite sophisticated, sometimes it takes time.

Especially if you are listening the customer, so you are trying to implement many changes and improvements.. They don't have a magic wand... 

@ Michael YYZ, Siglent does read EEVBLOG AFAIK, but it is not a primary channel to report. You can report to Siglent NA directly if you would like acknowledgement that it was received.
That is same for all manufacturers here, they help people here out of courtesy, but official channel is, well, official.
 

[Michael YYZ]

I’ve already reported the bugs found by me to Siglent NA and they quickly acknowledged receipt. Nice! 

@ Michael YYZ, Siglent does read EEVBLOG AFAIK, but it is not a primary channel to report. You can report to Siglent NA directly if you would like acknowledgement that it was received.
That is same for all manufacturers here, they help people here out of courtesy, but official channel is, well, official.

[Martin72]

Terrible thought, Martin!

There are two possibilities, they´re working on a real big one and testing time is long.
Or they are too busy at the moment.
We´ll see.

[keegi]

Couple of bugs  in 1.3.7R5 in digital signal analysis.

1) Sequence capture does not work with serial trigger from digital channel (when analog channels are turned off).

The capture can be set up properly, but when it's executed, it does not update sequence counter, and the capture never ends (I can see from Trig blinking that the trigger is hit). When I stop it manually (by pressing History), I can see the first triggered buffer, even though it shows buffer 0/0.

Exactly same scenario, triggered from analog channel works as expected. Even just having analog channels enabled somehow allows the capture to proceed.

2) Entering XX in the serial trigger from the dialog window still does not work. There is no on-screen key for "X" and when there is XX in hex or XXXX XXXX in binary (as it is when XX is previously in the field, or entered via web interface or external keyboard) it gets changed into zero.
As a workaround, I can enter XX by scrolling universal knob. Not sure whether setting individual bits to X is not supported by scope or supported, only impossible to enter in the UI.


3) Decoding I2C addresses does not display correct address. It includes read-write bit. Triggering works correctly e.g. when I set trigger to I2C address 0x40, then decode window shows 0x80 and 0x81, both in the bottom of the screen and in the decoded table.

[kcbrown]

Couple of bugs  in 1.3.7R5 in digital signal analysis.

1) Sequence capture does not work with serial trigger from digital channel (when analog channels are turned off).

That is really odd, and is definitely a bug.  The presence or absence of analog channels shouldn't affect the sequence capture mechanism.

I presume this is limited to explicit sequence capture?  The only reason you'd need to use that is if the normal capture mechanism is skipping frames, since the scope always uses segments for captures anyway.

2) Entering XX in the serial trigger from the dialog window still does not work. There is no on-screen key for "X" and when there is XX in hex or XXXX XXXX in binary (as it is when XX is previously in the field, or entered via web interface or external keyboard) it gets changed into zero.
As a workaround, I can enter XX by scrolling universal knob. Not sure whether setting individual bits to X is not supported by scope or supported, only impossible to enter in the UI.
(Attachment Link)

I don't think you can set individual bits to X.  It would be awfully nice if you could.  There wouldn't be a good way of displaying the trigger's configured address in hex, of course, if one were to do that.

Note that one of the buttons in the dialog is "default".  If you hit that, you get the "don't care" value.  That button really should be renamed "don't care".

3) Decoding I2C addresses does not display correct address. It includes read-write bit.

This one bit me as well, and it's not a bug.  See https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg3380846/#msg3380846

There's a setting in the decoder that says "include R/W bit", located in the "protocol config" section of the decoder configuration.  You need to turn that off.  Turn it off and the addresses will display properly (or, more precisely, as you expect).

[Deichgraf]

Greetings to the forum :-)

It's really disappointing, that especially the 1X / 10X bug will not be fixed in a short time frame, e.g. hot-fix.
Also the scope is out now for a longer time and the number of bugs should be get smaller over time I guess. At least the QA should be familiar with the scope / SW and ensure that basic functions like 1X / 10X etc. is checked before FW release!? 

[kcbrown]

I never saw a good answer to this question, so I thought I'd give it a shot, even though it's been a while...

Hi,   
   After starting up the web interface page while the scope was booting, I no longer am able to see the scope screen (just white background plus buttons) on the web control nor use the Home or Lan Config button from that page.  The buttons for firmware, save, etc. do respond.  The home page, Lan Config, and SCPI are accessible when loading the home page by the scope IP.  I am using firmware 1.3.7R5 and tried re-flashing both from the web page (since that button does work) and from USBdrive with no change. 

   Is there a way to reset the web/vnc server in the scope?

It's entirely possible, particularly given the things you've done by now, that this isn't a problem with the scope itself, but rather with the browser.  The browser will cache web page data it has on hand until either it replaces it with other data or the source gives it some information to indicate that the cached data is stale.

In light of that, there are a couple of things you can try:

1.  Hold the shift key down and hit the "reload" button on the browser.  In the browsers I've used, this will tell it to treat all data served up by the source as being "stale", which should then force the browser to re-retrieve it from the source (which in this case is the scope).

2.  Explicitly clear your browser's cache.   How you do this will differ across browsers but in general, it'll be buried in the preferences dialog structure somewhere.


If neither of those works then it's an issue with the scope, and you may need to get Siglent involved in fixing it.

[phil67ago]

Hi
I briefly could not find anything about this.

I have a problem with the cursors.
They some what can't be moved a cross the right and left sides of the screen (time mode).
Let say you are in Zoom and selected the top full view.

Starting with the cursors on to the left side of what is visible in the lower (zoomed) view.
Cursors are now on the left side of the black region.
Select both cursors in the upper view and try to move them right into the black (zoomed region).
Can not be done, you cant enter the zoomed area.
Now move the black (zoomed) region instead to the left and you will now get both cursors visible in the zoom view.
But you can not move the cursors outside the zoomed bottom view.

This also happens in non-zoomed situation, if the cursors are outside and you cannot get them in.
Let say you have both cursors inside left and right edges and the trigger position in horizontal center.
You can now adjust each of them.
Now change the horizontal scale so both hits the left and right side of the screen.
They are now stuck at the edges, no matter how much you turn the knob the will not move.

I would suggest removing the border control and adding a new feature instead.
When the cursors are outside and you want them to be visible, hold / press the Universal dial (the one you use when moving the cursors) for a longer time.
This will reset the position and place them centered with a half screen distance a part.

SDS2104X Plus Version 1.3.7R5

/Thanks