Siglent SDS2000X Plus - Bugs / Missing Features / Feature Requests

[Martin72]

Thank you sinisa, plus reading things could be helpful:

Supported floating menu so that the waveform is not compressed  horizontally when the right-side menu is displayed: Display | Menu Style

 

[2N3055]

Thank you sinisa, plus reading things could be helpful:

Supported floating menu so that the waveform is not compressed  horizontally when the right-side menu is displayed: Display | Menu Style

 

[roberthh]

+ A more steady screen appearance. You can always have the interesting parts of the trace still visible.
- Lists will be overlay-ed too. So you do not see the rightmost colum(s)

[Martin72]

Hi,

Maybe a bug too or the problem is appx 50cm in front of the scope:

Measure:

For example I want to measure the rms on channel 1 and the width on channel 2.
So I choose rms and choose channel 1 as the source.
Then I choose width and choose channel 2 as the source.
So I was used to do this on lecroy scopes and it seems logically to me.
But not on the siglent:
Doing this will cause that everything will be measured from one channel.
Shortform:
Measure rms, select channel 1 - rms from channel 1 is displaying, then choosing width and select channel 2 as the source for it - rms will change to channel 2 too....

[DL2XY]

Choose the channel first, then the measure.

[Martin72]

Thanks, read it in the manual seconds later....will try it at next time I´m on my scope.
Nevertheless, it irritates me.
It should no matters in which order I´m choosing the measurement selection.
It´s the same thing when I want to hide the channel.
On lecroy scopes, I press the channel button twice and then it´s hiding ( btw., "completely" hiding without any notice on the screen).
On the siglent I must turn on the channel menu, scrolling to the very end and then I can choose the hiding function - lame thing...
Plus the channel is somekind of still there as a notice on the screen.
Both would be nice to polish in future fw upgrade.

[rf-loop]

Thanks, read it in the manual seconds later....will try it at next time I´m on my scope.
Nevertheless, it irritates me.
It should no matters in which order I´m choosing the measurement selection.
It´s the same thing when I want to hide the channel.
On lecroy scopes, I press the channel button twice and then it´s hiding ( btw., "completely" hiding without any notice on the screen).
On the siglent I must turn on the channel menu, scrolling to the very end and then I can choose the hiding function - lame thing...
Plus the channel is somekind of still there as a notice on the screen.
Both would be nice to polish in future fw upgrade.

In Siglent there is NOT function to hide whole channel at all. You can turn channel on and off of course. But then, when channel is on you can turn off channel trace draw off from display.  Without displayed waveform trace, in background channel is still fully functional.
What is reason for hide whole channel totally (LeCroy thing. What it mean is not fully clear for me), fast thinking I can not find any real reason. But  I can find reasons for turn channel trace draw off from screen when channel is still fully working in background - just without trace display draw.

Always when we get new instrument it need time to adapt and time for learn it and same time need learn away some things from other instrument.
It was hard time when in some situation in history I use Hewlett-Packard analog scopes and Tektronix analog scopes randomly mixed or some times even parallel. It was nightmare due to so different "UI" logic and same or even worse when use HP Spectrum analyzers with R&S spectrum analyzers until use so much that both are in "muscle memory". You need two isolated area in brain and fast switch between them 

[Electro Fan]

Ya'll find them bugs now.

I got my 2352X-E on the way...

Cmon guys... Find those bugs.

And let Tautech know.... Bugs are bad ! 

How similar is the code between X-E and X Plus?  Are bugs found in one likely to be found in the other?  Are fixes and improvements in one likely to make it into the other?

I recently read that the 2K and the 5K and 6K series share the same foundation code - is this true and are the 2K X-E and the 2K X Plus both considered to be part of the same 2K series?

[tautech]

Ya'll find them bugs now.

I got my 2352X-E on the way...

Cmon guys... Find those bugs.

And let Tautech know.... Bugs are bad ! 

How similar is the code between X-E and X Plus?  Are bugs found in one likely to be found in the other?  Are fixes and improvements in one likely to make it into the other?

I recently read that the 2K and the 5K and 6K series share the same foundation code - is this true and are the 2K X-E and the 2K X Plus both considered to be part of the same 2K series?

Not similar at all.
Traditional scope vs different UI and feature set of the 5KX and 2KX Plus models.

2KX-E is similar in every way to SDS1104/1204X-E.

[roberthh]

On lecroy scopes, I press the channel button twice and then it´s hiding ( btw., "completely" hiding without any notice on the screen).

Same thing here. If you push the channel button while the channel is "on", it it switched off (not hidden). And in the channel menu the on/off switch is at the top.
About the assignment of measuring items to channels: That is irritating. I had made a post about a similar behavior earlier.

[tautech]

Thanks, read it in the manual seconds later....will try it at next time I´m on my scope.
Nevertheless, it irritates me.
It should no matters in which order I´m choosing the measurement selection.
It´s the same thing when I want to hide the channel.
On lecroy scopes, I press the channel button twice and then it´s hiding ( btw., "completely" hiding without any notice on the screen).
On the siglent I must turn on the channel menu, scrolling to the very end and then I can choose the hiding function - lame thing...
Plus the channel is somekind of still there as a notice on the screen.
Both would be nice to polish in future fw upgrade.

In Siglent there is NOT function to hide whole channel at all. You can turn channel on and off of course. But then, when channel is on you can turn off channel trace draw off from display.  Without displayed waveform trace, in background channel is still fully functional.
What is reason for hide whole channel totally (LeCroy thing. What it mean is not fully clear for me), fast thinking I can not find any real reason. But  I can find reasons for turn channel trace draw off from screen when channel is still fully working in background - just without trace display draw.

Always when we get new instrument it need time to adapt and time for learn it and same time need learn away some things from other instrument.
It was hard time when in some situation in history I use Hewlett-Packard analog scopes and Tektronix analog scopes randomly mixed or some times even parallel. It was nightmare due to so different "UI" logic and same or even worse when use HP Spectrum analyzers with R&S spectrum analyzers until use so much that both are in "muscle memory". You need two isolated area in brain and fast switch between them 

Easy of channel management is relative to the UI inputs you choose to use with the scope.
Some little examples
Hidden or Visible is only accessible with the touch display or a mouse. Period. Same for SDS5kX or 2kX Plus.
By far the easiest is to use a mouse whether the channel menu is visible or not.

If the channel menu was the last menu used its tab remains available at the top right of the display and a touch or click opens it again and a scroll with the mouse wheel takes you to the menu foot where the less used features like Hidden/Visible reside.
Some screenshots for study and discussion.....interesting that you can't capture the channel popup above the channel tab in a screenshot. 

[tautech]

If you push the channel button while the channel is "on", it it switched off (not hidden). And in the channel menu the on/off switch is at the top.

This is normal for Siglents multiplexed control DSO's.
Press channel button to bring that channel to the front (active to controls) and another press turns it OFF.

Tap the channel tab has the same effect of bring the channel to the front and also activating a sub menu where you can also select OFF for that channel.

[roberthh]

This is normal for Siglents multiplexed control DSO's.
Press channel button to bring that channel to the front (active to controls) and another press turns it OFF.

Tap the channel tab has the same effect of bring the channel to the front and also activating a sub menu where you can also select OFF for that channel.

No problem with that. That's how I would expect it. I just wanted to explain to @martin_72 how to switch channels on/off easily w/o scrolling through the menu.

[roberthh]

SDS2104x+, 1.3.7R5, Test of the SENT decoder

This post replaces the previous one on this topic. To some extend I could tell when it works. A Python simulator for SENT messages is attached. It is made for an ESP32 with micropython firmware. A suitable binary image is here: https://github.com/robert-hh/Shared-Stuff/blob/master/firmware_ESP32_RMT_IDLE_SPIRAM.bin

Test of the SENT decoder.

The test of the SENT decoder were made using a Python protocol simulator
based on a ESP32 module. That simulator was expanded to support as many as possible
message types. Tests were made with a tick time of 5 µs. The simulator can
change the tick time in steps of 0.1 µs.

General impression:

The protocol decoder seems to be work in progress. Some basic functions are there,
but also quite a few inconsistencies and some unexpected behavior.
There is also no documentation yet about the decoder. So I had to guess about
the intentions.

Protocol decoder:

1. Protocol signal

After booting, the protocol signal level was always at about 8V. The state before
shutdown is non memorized. That's the case for both the decoder and the trigger
sections. That may be a common behavior of the oszilloscope and more an inconvence
than a serious problem. For automated testing I would anyhow expect the use
of scripts which set all test parameters again.

2. Protocol config & decode

a) Protocol timing

SENT is designed as timing tolerant. The standard calls a tolerance range of 25%. The
protocol config has a setting for both a CLK and a tolerance. For CLK I assumes it is the
duration of the basic protocol tick. So for a setting of 5µs I expected a range of
3.75 to 6.25 µs tick time, which would be accepted as decodable and valid messages.-
That is NOT the case. With a message tick time of exactly 5µs and the CLK set to 5µs,
the decoder flags a length error and decodes data wrong. Only with real tick settings
between 5.1µs and 5.2µs both no error was flagged and the decoded data was right. For
message tick times between 5.3µs and 5.8µs no error was flagged, but the data decoding
was wrong.

b) Display of decoded data

- The CRC display seems to be unfinished. You can select between two CRC Formats.
  But both are displayed the same, and especially there is no difference in the display
  between a correct and incorrect CRC. I tried all 16 values for a given data frame,
  and besides the value they all look the same (same color.

- When moving such a burst of frames horizontally, the decoding sometimes switches
  to completely wrong values. Increasing the horizontal scale fixes that.
  Inmy test this happened only at aquisition memory depths if 20M and 200M.
  When reducing the acquisition size to 2M i could not reproduce that error.

- Changing the horizontal time/div affects the ability to decode.
  Which is puzzling, since the captured data does not change. So it looks as if
  the decoding is based on the decimated display points and not on the captured data.-

- The Short Serial data is NOT decoded if only 16 frames are sent. If a 17th frame
  follows, the data is decoded. In that case, also triggering on serial data works.
  As far as I understand, Short Serial Data requires 16 data frames.
  But no joy unless there is another data frame following the first 16.

- Same for the 12 bit and 16 bit variants of Enhanced Serial Data. The coding as
  displayed in the decoded list for frames is right, but the decoded values are
  not shown, unless a 19th data frame follows the 18 frames required for the
  Enhanced Serial Data Message.

3. Serial trigger

- There are inconsistencies between the protocol config menu for serial trigger and
  protocol decode. Some like the CRC are named different, some like idle level
  do not exist. Different names may be an (avoidable) inconvenience, but the
  omission of the idle level setting may be a problem.

- Triggering on the start condition of slow serial channels works, both for
  frames with idle level low & high.

- Triggering on the ID value of slow serial frames works only with a trailing frame.

- Triggering on data works for slow serial works only, if the ID's also match.
  When the ID is set to don't care, data trigger fails. In any case, triggering
  on data requires a trailing frame.

[Martin72]

What is reason for hide whole channel totally (LeCroy thing. What it mean is not fully clear for me), fast thinking I can not find any real reason. But  I can find reasons for turn channel trace draw off from screen when channel is still fully working in background - just without trace display draw.

As I´ve written, I´m used to get the channel "hiding" by pressing only the channel button twice - It´s much more comfortable than open a menu, scrolling and choosing hide yes/no.
Just simply push the button twice.
Don´t get me wrong, hiding the channel in general is an fantastic thing and I´m glad siglent realized this with the first fw-update.
But somehow I find the way lecroy do a little bit more comfortable to handle and I think, it´s only a matter of the software, so it could be modifying to this way.
When I´m the only one who think this was a nice polish, well I could live with the actual version, no problem.

Martin

[rf-loop]

What is reason for hide whole channel totally (LeCroy thing. What it mean is not fully clear for me), fast thinking I can not find any real reason. But  I can find reasons for turn channel trace draw off from screen when channel is still fully working in background - just without trace display draw.

As I´ve written, I´m used to get the channel "hiding" by pressing only the channel button twice - It´s much more comfortable than open a menu, scrolling and choosing hide yes/no.
Just simply push the button twice.
Don´t get me wrong, hiding the channel in general is an fantastic thing and I´m glad siglent realized this with the first fw-update.
But somehow I find the way lecroy do a little bit more comfortable to handle and I think, it´s only a matter of the software, so it could be modifying to this way.
When I´m the only one who think this was a nice polish, well I could live with the actual version, no problem.

Martin

Now I understand what you mean. My language is finglish.
It is true this trace display on/off can be better. But it need carefully think how to do it because channel selection button have also other designed function.
In order you push channel select button adjust also in which order traces are overlaid in display when it is important in some cases. Now if button is pressed two times inside some time short period it can turn trace on/off but it need then remove its effect from traces overlay priority register so that it stay untouched but it must not do more slow when use these buttons for make overlay priority order. If you fast (o with long period) have pushed 1342,  this is trace overlay priority in reverse order.  Now if you want hide trace 3. first you push 3  priority order is then 1423. But if next push come inside short time it turns this action for shut off ch3 trace and then it need cancel it effect in priority so that order is again 1(3)42. (3 trace off)  And sime vice versa if you want then turn it back on.

This trace display overlay priority is sometimes important also, as also hiding trace some times so both need work well without extra hassle.
Of course it can do easy but right way and we hope Siglent do it.

[roberthh]

SDS2104x+

Irritating display, Just a minor glitch?
When testing the Manchester decoder, which b.t.w. works, I got the screen short below, which is confusing. It shows a single Pulse, successfully decoded a Manchester encoded message.
Scope in Normal mode. Trigger set to rising edge.  What happened:
There was that single pulse followed by the Manchester encoded data, which by change had about the same length. Both are in the history, but the trace shows the first captured event, and the Protocol decoder the second one.
I do not really agree that this is the right way of doing things, because the screen shows two traces from different sections of time. I came across that earlier in a comment about UART decoding.

Edit: In that state, moving the trace a little bit sideways brings up the proper data pulse train.

b.t.w.: Attached is the little python script for creating this Manchester encoded bit stream. Again the Platform is an ESP32 with Micropython firmware from micropython.org. A firmware image which supports the idle keyword for RMT is here: https://github.com/robert-hh/Shared-Stuff/blob/master/firmware_ESP32_RMT_IDLE_SPIRAM.bin

[Martin72]

Of course it can do easy but right way and we hope Siglent do it.

Indirectly they did it on the WS3024(SDS3K), so it would be nice when the 2K+/5K (also?) are having it too.
Here pics from it, nr. 1 both channel on, a measure value selected for each.
Second picture shows that channel one is "off", nothing on the screen, no channelbox, even the channel button doesn´t lit - But still the value for ch 1 will be displayed.
Same when using math.

Picture 3 shows a nice to have with very low priority: Displaying the bitrate when decoding.
Picture 4 I´ve forgot to print, it would show a very nice feature:
Searchfunction in decoding....
If it´s possible to make, it would be cool we could have it someday for the 2K+ too.
But like the bitrate, it´s not urgent to have it.

[Tom45]

A feature request.

When using the Universal control to adjust a channel's deskew value, it would be nice if pressing the control would reset the deskew value to zero.

[rf-loop]

If you push the channel button while the channel is "on", it it switched off (not hidden). And in the channel menu the on/off switch is at the top.

Not exactly if I undestaand right your msg.

It depends what channel button is currently also active (button led on)
So it can not simply say that pushing channel button while it(channel)  is on, it is switched off.

Pushing working channel button when button light is ON then this channel shut totally off.
Pushing working channel button when button light is OFF then this channel is set for highest display priority (and vertical adjustments activated)
Pushing not working channel button turn this channel working, turn button led on, set highest display priority and activate this channel adjustments.

If take random example.  There is 4 channel on and button 3 have light and diplay priority is (right highest) 1423
Then you want priority 4231 what to do. Just push buttons in order 4231 and no channels turns off. Only in this particular case if  this Ch3 button led is on and you want priority order 3421  and for avoid turn off channel, it need first push 4 or 2 or 1 (for move light to other button than 3)  and then 3421.  This is very logical.

But now if one want mix also turn trace display on/off  (and leave channel working) it is pehaps bit messy if display priority, channel on/off, trace display on/off need all take to these channel buttons.
Of course there is available short-long push and slow-fast repeating pushes. But... just imho...  I can imagine also what kind of  barking it may generate when every user have some imagine how just he think it need work because he is adated to principle how some other instrument UI works.  Vice versa. If someone is fully adapted for use Siglent UI and if Siglent do not change logic in every turn repeatedly then user have soon this all in his muxcle memory and later he ranting some other instrument do not work as he is learned and adapted. If one use Siglent then learn to use Siglent. So simple. If one use Rigol then learn to Rigol and so on... long list. Who follow who...  No one can make global universal deal that all use same standardized UI logic and so on... So use your shoes and walk your own roads. Some like some not.

But this do NOT mean things are ok and must not improve in usability, hands and fingers ergonomy, visual ergonomy etc..

Just one opinion how it perhaps can do without doing any significant change how it is now.
If I take one example and this is how I do it now so that it do not change anything what is there now.

If one push channel button just one LONG press. If light is on or off and channel is working... trace display is turned off. If button was not active (light off) then it is also after this. All, priority order etc stay just as they was.
There is possible one thing what need think carefully and perhaps simulate in real life before final solution.. (long press, fast double push  etc things and timing). If just this channel what trace user want hide is selected active (led on) perhaps it is wise to shut off this activation so that hidden trace channel can not adjust or shut off until it is visible so. also led off (because it is not nice if it is used for trigger and accidentally turn it off or accidentally adjust its vertical things when hidden)
Of course on screen there is visible this channel label and info about trace on off as it is now.

[rf-loop]

A feature request.

When using the Universal control to adjust a channel's deskew value, it would be nice if pressing the control would reset the deskew value to zero.

+1

[rf-loop]

Still waiting day when there is simple one wonderful and miraculous button and it need be real hardware button and without delay.

This mysterious secret button name is "Trig"

Nearly every scope I have used in my life have been this simple button.

This loved child have many names... aka "force trig"  or "manual trig" or what ever...

Every single person who have even bit experience working with scopes know this. But for Siglent engineers it is like in some mystery from other unknown universe. 

So, please. You do not even need pay it yourself. Customers pay it.

[roberthh]

Sent Protocol:

Attached is an updated simulator for the SENT protocol. The change: Include the proper CRC for enhanced serial messages. Lacking sample messages or a specification I could not tell yet, whether the CRC for Simple Serial Messages is right.

[roberthh]

This mysterious secret button name is "Trig"

Nearly every scope I have used in my life have been this simple button.

This loved child have many names... aka "force trig"  or "manual trig" or what ever...

One challenge would be the lack of buttons. Obviously it can be  a touch button. But also could the Stop/Run button  act as Trig button when the scope is waiting for  a trigger. So it would trigger then, capture one sweep and stop, showing that sweep.

One other thing that drives me crazy is the very short Auto trigger timeout, making Auto trigger practically useless for events slower repeating more rare that about every 10 ms. That timeout should be configurable.

[tautech]

One other thing that drives me crazy is the very short Auto trigger timeout, making Auto trigger practically useless for events slower repeating more rare that about every 10 ms. That timeout should be configurable.

Do you mean trigger Holdoff ?
Its range is: By time：8 ns ～ 30 s (8 ns step) By event：1 ~ 10⁸

We also have available 2 Zone triggers.