Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.

[Grandchuck]

Been experimenting with math functions (see SinDivCos jpg below) and ran across something interesting.  The MathExp png file shows quite some noise where the denominator of the function is approaching zero.  This led me to try BW limiting as shown in the 20MBW file below.  There is a slight but noticeable improvement.  To complete the exercise, averaging and Eres are also shown.

This oscilloscope is a learning laboratory!

[axantas]

Been experimenting with math functions (see SinDivCos jpg below) and ran across something interesting.  The MathExp png file shows quite some noise where the denominator of the function is approaching zero.  This led me to try BW limiting as shown in the 20MBW file below.  There is a slight but noticeable improvement.  To complete the exercise, averaging and Eres are also shown.

This oscilloscope is a learning laboratory!

experimenting, you come accross interesting results. 
Bandwith limiting is an underestimated feature. I often use it in my old-stuff-analog-repairs, just to eliminate the unavoidable "dirt" higher up and to get a clean readout. Sometimes the laboratory is too good - but it is good to have it anyway. 

[dekagon]

Hello Siglent community,

you have a new member and a proud and happy owner of a SDS2104x HD Scope. 

Here are a few pictures of the freshly unpacked scope:

[dekagon]

I forgot to post the Firmware and Option screens:



Cheers Chris

[dekagon]

the rest of the missing pics

[dekagon]

sorry I got too stupid posting pictures here...

new try...

[Martin72]

Hi Chris,

With optionbundle ?

[dekagon]

After a bit of testing, I have to say that this is a brilliant scope.
I've had a few in the past (Hameg, LeCroy, Tek and even an Iwatsu analog scope).
But in my opinion the Siglent is of high quality, the encoders are precise, the screen is top-notch and, above all, the scope is whisper quiet! (Thanks Martin, I wouldn't have believed it

Unfortunately, it's only a 100 MHz scope. I would have liked a bit more bandwidth, but for now it's sufficient.

Luckily, I got the option bundle with SPL2016 16ch LA probe (I ordered it before the end of June)

I have firmware 1.2.0.2 in the scope. Should I update to the latest firmware straight away or use the trial period first? I can enter my licenses later...

Cheers Chris

[dekagon]

Hi Martin,

Hi Chris,

With optionbundle ?

The SDS2000X HD Bundle...

Unfortunately Welectron could not sent it with the scope. It will come a little bit delayed...

[Grandchuck]

After a bit of testing, I have to say that this is a brilliant scope.
I've had a few in the past (Hameg, LeCroy, Tek and even an Iwatsu analog scope).
But in my opinion the Siglent is of high quality, the encoders are precise, the screen is top-notch and, above all, the scope is whisper quiet! (Thanks Martin, I wouldn't have believed it

Unfortunately, it's only a 100 MHz scope. I would have liked a bit more bandwidth, but for now it's sufficient.

Luckily, I got the option bundle with SPL2016 16ch LA probe (I ordered it before the end of June)

I have firmware 1.2.0.2 in the scope. Should I update to the latest firmware straight away or use the trial period first? I can enter my licenses later...

Cheers Chris

It is a brilliant scope.  I see no reason to not update it now.

[Martin72]

I have firmware 1.2.0.2 in the scope. Should I update to the latest firmware straight away or use the trial period first? I can enter my licenses later...

The new firmware includes that the AWG licence and the LA licence are no longer trials.
If I were you, I would enter the keys from your bundle and then upgrade to the latest version.
The bundle itself was an absolutely insane offer - The LA cable now costs 505€ - Just the cable...

[dekagon]

Hi Martin,

The new firmware includes that the AWG licence and the LA licence are no longer trials.
If I were you, I would enter the keys from your bundle and then upgrade to the latest version.

That is great. But fortunately I still got the option bundle. At the current price of the Logicprobe alone, it's even more worthwhile... 

The bundle itself was an absolutely insane offer - The LA cable now costs 505€ - Just the cable...

Incredible price increase. For what reasons? Is it still the same logic probe? Or a better one?

Cheers Chris

[Martin72]

Absolutely the same.
The logic behind the price increase is that you no longer have to buy a license....
But that doesn't make it any better...

[egonotto]

Hello,

you used to need the license and the probes. This was also somewhat more expensive with the SDS2000X HD than the €505.75 now.
My SDS2104X HD has a bandwidth of around 180 MHz. So it's more in the 200 MHz class.

Viel Spaß mit dem SDS2104X HD.

Best regards
egonotto

[dekagon]

Hi Egonotto,

Hello,

you used to need the license and the probes. This was also somewhat more expensive with the SDS2000X HD than the €505.75 now.
My SDS2104X HD has a bandwidth of around 180 MHz. So it's more in the 200 MHz class.

Viel Spaß mit dem SDS2104X HD.

Best regards
egonotto

Grazie mille 

Unfortunately, I haven't had much time to get to grips with the beautiful scope. I got it on Tuesday, but only today did I have time to unpack it and play around with it a bit.

In the forum there were instructions for measuring the scope bandwidth. Does anyone know which thread it was in? I've read so much here in the last few weeks, but unfortunately I've forgotten where it was.
The search function returns too many results when searching for "bandwidth check"...

Cheers Chris

[2N3055]

Hi Martin,

The new firmware includes that the AWG licence and the LA licence are no longer trials.
If I were you, I would enter the keys from your bundle and then upgrade to the latest version.

That is great. But fortunately I still got the option bundle. At the current price of the Logicprobe alone, it's even more worthwhile... 

The bundle itself was an absolutely insane offer - The LA cable now costs 505€ - Just the cable...

Incredible price increase. For what reasons? Is it still the same logic probe? Or a better one?

Cheers Chris

It is easy to forget.....

Superb price of bundle was a limited time special, not a standard price which was much higher. Limited offer expired...
It is same with every manufacturer.

And as people said before:

There was a heated discussion here on EEVBlog where many people where apparently unhappy how Siglent was selling hardware and license separately. It used to be that hardware was cheaper and if you had 3 scopes that could use the probe you had to buy separate software license for each of the scopes to be able to use it on all of them.
So if you had 4 scopes in a lab, one cheap probe and 4 licenses.

And people suggested that it is unfair, because they already bought the hardware and they shouldn't be forced to buy software for all the scopes. And also many said that they would prefer for the software license to be bundled with hardware itself and should work for any scope you connect it to without further question.

Wish granted.

And before any further discussion, R&S RTB2000 MSO option is 1200€ with probe, and still locked to single scope...

I don't think there is any dispute that Siglent prices are waaaaay better and free use of MSO probe with any scope is industry leading....
And before some people say that on Keysight you can move probe to another scope too, that is true if you buy MSO software license for all the scopes individually.

So before Siglent had same licensing as Keysight, and now has better, less restrictive.
At prices that are 2x or 3x less even after "price increase"...

[dekagon]

I must say, I owe Martin a lot of thanks.
He gave me the idea to ask Welectron (they still had the SDS2104X HD in stock) whether they would sell the SDS2104X HD at a reasonable price, as it was no longer officially sold and the price on their website was simply too high.

At that time (beginning of June) the Siglent bundle offer was still going on (luckily).

After that there was a good offer and I jumped at the chance and of course ordered the bundle at the same time.

I am incredibly happy that I ordered the bundle for 265 euros (including tax)

Cheers Chris

[egonotto]

...
In the forum there were instructions for measuring the scope bandwidth. Does anyone know which thread it was in? I've read so much here in the last few weeks, but unfortunately I've forgotten where it was.
The search function returns too many results when searching for "bandwidth check"...

Cheers Chris

Hello,

To measure the bandwidth, you need a sine wave generator. By definition, the bandwidth is the frequency at which the scope only displays approximately 0.7 times the amplitude. (exactly -3 dB).

But as far as I remember, no owner of an SDS2104X HD has ever reported that their device only just managed the promised 100 MHz.  You can therefore assume that your device has considerably more than 100 MHz.

The noise provides a very rough guide. So if your device really only has just about 100 MHz, the noise should be comparatively low.

Best regards
egonotto

[mawyatt]

But as far as I remember, no owner of an SDS2104X HD has ever reported that their device only just managed the promised 100 MHz.  You can therefore assume that your device has considerably more than 100 MHz.

The noise provides a very rough guide. So if your device really only has just about 100 MHz, the noise should be comparatively low.

Best regards
egonotto

Very important point when you see folks discussing DSO noise levels, they don't talk about noise density like RF/MW folks, they talk about Peak to Peak and RMS (SD) Noise levels which MUST take bandwidth into account, otherwise meaningless!!

So someone gets a new DSO and measures noise levels, then "Enhances" DSO for maximum bandwidth and wonders why it's now more noisy??

Best,

[KungFuJosh]

So someone gets a new DSO and measures noise levels, then "Enhances" DSO for maximum bandwidth and wonders why it's now more noisy??

Is the 20MHz filter sufficient to reduce the noise?

[mawyatt]

So someone gets a new DSO and measures noise levels, then "Enhances" DSO for maximum bandwidth and wonders why it's now more noisy??

Is the 20MHz filter sufficient to reduce the noise?

Yes, that's a good idea to compare various DSOs noise levels, as they all should have the 20MHz BW limit, and compared with equal BW!!

Best,

[KungFuJosh]

Is the 20MHz filter sufficient to reduce the noise?

Yes, that's a good idea to compare various DSOs noise levels, as they all should have the 20MHz BW limit, and compared with equal BW!!

I'd really like to see noise comparisons between the Siglent HD line with the 20MHz filter applied (especially the 2000 vs 3000 series). Would be nice to see how Rigol compares too, for those that would consider the brand.

[egonotto]

.....

I'd really like to see noise comparisons between the Siglent HD line with the 20MHz filter applied (especially the 2000 vs 3000 series). Would be nice to see how Rigol compares too, for those that would consider the brand.

Hello, (Part 1)

some results from different scopes always with 20 MHz filter.
The results sometimes depend on different settings. I am not sure if I can reproduce all results.

Best regards
egonotto

[egonotto]

.....

I'd really like to see noise comparisons between the Siglent HD line with the 20MHz filter applied (especially the 2000 vs 3000 series). Would be nice to see how Rigol compares too, for those that would consider the brand.

Hello, (Part 2)

some results from different scopes always with 20 MHz filter.
The results sometimes depend on different settings. I am not sure if I can reproduce all results.

Best regards
egonotto

[dekagon]

Here are some Screenshots from my SDS2104X HD.

First Picture:      50 Ohm and 20 MHz Limit activated on all Channels.
Second Picture:  1MOhm and 20 MHz Limit activated on all Channels.

It seems that there is not much noise level difference between both settings.

Cheers Chris