Author Topic: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.  (Read 336752 times)

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Offline fhw72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #825 on: December 21, 2023, 04:36:25 pm »
Finally I had the time to unpack my new SDS2000X HD today:

1959063-0

Comparing it to my SDS2104X-Plus (which thinks of itself being a SDS2354X+  :-DD) the fan noise
is much much lower. NICE!

Unfortunately the hack used for the "plus" doesn't work.
I hope to find a way to make it also think of being a SDS2504X-HD before the end of the trial period.  :)
« Last Edit: December 21, 2023, 06:41:32 pm by fhw72 »
 
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Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #826 on: January 01, 2024, 10:24:46 am »
Trigger Jitter

The datasheet specifies the trigger jitter as follows:

•   CH1~CH4: < 10 ps rms (typical) ,≥ 6 div Vpp sine,2.5 mV/div ~ 10 V/div
•   EXT: < 200 ps rms

The EXT trigger jitter is not exactly stellar at <200 ps RMS – but then again this is a classical analog (comparator) trigger and not the fully digital trigger system that we get when using one of the input channels as trigger source.

Now let’s verify this with a 300 MHz sine signal from an OCXO-driven AWG (SDG7102A), fed into channels 2 and 4 of an SDS2504X HD via a 12.4 GHz resistive power splitter. We can observe the jitter in the trigger channel as well as a not triggered channel, where both are using different ADCs, hence are completely unrelated.

The high quality 300 MHz sine signal has been chosen for its fast edges and low inherent jitter – after all we want to characterize the DSO and not the signal source. See the attached screenshot which has been taken after more than one minute running with infinite persistence:


SDS2504X_HD_Trigger_Jitter_300MHz_1m

At a timebase of 500 ps/div, we can see the peak to peak jitter in the triggered as well as the non-triggered channel after more than one minute at infinite persistence. Well, at that timebase we see – pretty much no jitter at all.

The jitter measurements are as follows:
Triggered channel: 13.2 ps pk-pk, 2.018 ps rms;
Un-triggered channel: 17.7 ps pk-pk, 2.54 ps rms;
Skew Ch.3-Ch.4: 15.1 ps pk-pk, 2.317 ps rms;

 
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Offline optotester

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #827 on: January 01, 2024, 12:31:49 pm »
Hi,

I am thinking of buying a SDS2104X HD but I see a lot of people mentioning there is no public keygen.

What does that mean exactly? There is no way to unlock bw/options at all or there is someone to contact to get the keys generated?

If unlock is not possible I may rather consider Rigol for my next scope.
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #828 on: January 01, 2024, 01:00:56 pm »
If you don't feel like reading this thread, but come straight away like this:
"If the scope isn't hackable or they don't tell me who can hack it for me, then I'll buy another brand"...Then you have to say:
Have fun with your future rigol scope. ;)
"Comparison is the end of happiness and the beginning of dissatisfaction."
(Kierkegaard)
Siglent SDS800X HD Deep Review
 

Offline optotester

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #829 on: January 01, 2024, 01:20:27 pm »
I did read the full thread at least 3 times but cannot find a clear answer on that point to be honest. I may have missed it.

I have already Siglent 2104X Plus non-HD and a Siglent power supply, and I do like the Siglent ecosystem/UI.
However, from what I have understood the 2104X HD is not hackable, which make the price point way above my budget compared to the HDO4000 series which can be unlocked.

Update: as options were sold at promo price I ended up buying them

PS: I need quite high bandwidth because I am playing with CCD sensors output, which are non repetitive signals
« Last Edit: June 26, 2024, 02:00:10 pm by optotester »
 

Offline voltsandjolts

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #830 on: January 01, 2024, 01:45:07 pm »
I bought a Rigol DHO1074 at the BF price of £620 delivered, and so far it's OK for the price hardware wise but firmware needs some work. There is absolutely no way I would pay the asking price for the DHO4000 series, where the firmware seems to be not any better AFAICT.

The unlocked Siglent 2104X Plus is a good bit of kit, are you sure you really need the HD upgrade?
 

Offline optotester

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #831 on: January 01, 2024, 02:21:55 pm »
8bits is not enough to see the differences I am looking for and the fan noise bothers me a bit.
I also use Pico 5000D series, which fits better my expectations but the frontend is not really low noise (and the software is a bit less stable that was I was hoping for)

I was thinking of selling the 2104X and the Picoscope to go for a 12bit scope instead.

But maybe the best for my application would be an ADC demoboard like https://www.digikey.fr/fr/products/detail/texas-instruments/ADS54J60EVM/5452290 but I have 0 FPGA knowledge so it would be a significant challenge to use.

Kr
 

Offline voltsandjolts

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #832 on: January 01, 2024, 02:32:35 pm »
I would recommened waiting to see if the Siglent SDS1000X HD series comes to europe, it could be a good fit for you, and maybe me too  ;)

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1000x-hd-coming/
 

Offline optotester

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #833 on: January 01, 2024, 03:12:47 pm »
Looks like it was misinterpreted :)

It was not a « negative » ultimatum, simply that my project is moving slowly due to not very adequate equipment and I am looking to improve that  as soon as I can. The hobby-priced options are kind of limited to Siglent or Rigol, and I am trying to find the best option that fits my budget and my needs.

I have the feeling that the upcoming SDS1000X HD would  bring very little compared to my current Pico scope, hence the interest in SDS2000X HD.
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #834 on: January 01, 2024, 04:02:12 pm »
Looks like it was misinterpreted :)

It was not a « negative » ultimatum, simply that my project is moving slowly due to not very adequate equipment and I am looking to improve that  as soon as I can. The hobby-priced options are kind of limited to Siglent or Rigol, and I am trying to find the best option that fits my budget and my needs.

I have the feeling that the upcoming SDS1000X HD would  bring very little compared to my current Pico scope, hence the interest in SDS2000X HD.

Unless 350/500MHz BW is of most importance to you, SDS1000X HD would bring almost the same benefits of upgrade. Even than, SDS1000X HD 200MHz is wider than nominal, more like 250 MHz BW. At all times, sampled at 2/1/0.5 GS/s. At 12 Bit at which Pico already samples at very low rates..

That being said, I still kept my Picos because they are different and have their special features no other scope has...
Which exactly Pico 5000D do you have, if you don't mind me asking?
« Last Edit: January 01, 2024, 04:03:43 pm by 2N3055 »
 

Offline TERRA Operative

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #835 on: January 05, 2024, 12:12:26 pm »
I just joined the club and bought one of these scopes for myself for Christmas and have just unlocked it up to the full capabilities. :)

I noticed in the AWG System Info screen that there is away to upgrade firmware for inbuilt SAG1021 AWG there. I am currently on version 1.11 (I just upgraded the scope firmware to latest using the normal procedure), does this need to be upgraded separately or is it covered by the scope firmware?
Where does all this test equipment keep coming from?!?

https://www.youtube.com/NearFarMedia/
 
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Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #836 on: January 10, 2024, 10:39:29 am »
I noticed in the AWG System Info screen that there is away to upgrade firmware for inbuilt SAG1021 AWG there. I am currently on version 1.11 (I just upgraded the scope firmware to latest using the normal procedure), does this need to be upgraded separately or is it covered by the scope firmware?
This would be a separate update for the SDS2000X HD, yet I can remember only one small update soon after the introduction of the SAG1021, when the SDS1004X-E still was the only device that could control it. The SAG1021 isn't very complex, consequently there are no bugs to fix and quite obviously Siglent don't plan to add further functionality, as anyone who is serious about using an AWG will have an external standalone device anyway.
 
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Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #837 on: January 10, 2024, 10:40:38 am »
Inspired by the complaint here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-hdo1000-and-hdo4000-12bit-oscilloscopes-launched-in-china/msg5269170/#msg5269170

I’ve done some tests with the SDS2000X HD. One could argue that this instrument is much more expensive than a DHO1000, but firstly I’m pretty sure the DHO4000 will not perform any different, while at the same time the upcoming Siglent SDS800/1000X HD performance will be very close to the SDS2000X HD.

The test scenario described by forum member Egonotto is a very moderate one. For this, the SDS2000X HD doesn’t need any special mode; the always active background history can handle that:


SDS2504X_HD_History_5ms

At 5 µs/div, the SDS2000X HD provides an average of 655 µs/frame and a worst case maximum of 1.86 ms/frame.

For event recording, we’d rather use the dedicated Sequence mode. This provides a constant 100 µs/frame @ 5 µs/div; not a single frame is missing, even when the pulse packets have a burst period of just 100 µs:


SDS2504X_HD_Sequence_100us

« Last Edit: January 10, 2024, 10:43:16 am by Performa01 »
 
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Offline hansibull

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #838 on: January 10, 2024, 12:06:20 pm »
I've been an R&S RTB2004 user for several years but decided to buy an SDS2000X HD to use as a secondary scope.
I liked it better than the RTB2004, so the Siglent is now the main scope. And after 3D printing that VESA mount for it, it's such a convenient instrument!

However, one thing I haven't figured out is the UART bus table.
I do a lot of half-duplex RS485 decoding, and with the RTB2004 it would display each "frame" (burst of characters) on a single line in the table. The Siglent on the other hand, just places each character on a new line in the table, and I end up having to fiddle a lot to compare two received "frames".

Is there a way to have the bus table look like the RTB2004 that grouts the received data in "frames" rather than filling a list I have to scroll through?
« Last Edit: January 10, 2024, 12:18:05 pm by hansibull »
 
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #839 on: January 10, 2024, 02:41:39 pm »
I've been an R&S RTB2004 user for several years but decided to buy an SDS2000X HD to use as a secondary scope.
I liked it better than the RTB2004, so the Siglent is now the main scope. And after 3D printing that VESA mount for it, it's such a convenient instrument!

However, one thing I haven't figured out is the UART bus table.
I do a lot of half-duplex RS485 decoding, and with the RTB2004 it would display each "frame" (burst of characters) on a single line in the table. The Siglent on the other hand, just places each character on a new line in the table, and I end up having to fiddle a lot to compare two received "frames".

Is there a way to have the bus table look like the RTB2004 that grouts the received data in "frames" rather than filling a list I have to scroll through?

Yeah bothers me too..
I reported it to Siglent. We will see what future brings...
 
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Online kripton2035

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #840 on: January 10, 2024, 03:07:05 pm »
what I would really like is be able to use sigrok with the 2000HD ... did someone succeed in connecting it ?
tautech said once that a driver is missing, but since the last siglent update, not a word about this (network ?) driver ?

it is working for the SDS2000X, according to sigrok page, but not for the HD ?
https://sigrok.org/wiki/Siglent_SDS2000X_series



edit: just found this sds2000hd driver, is it for sigrok ?
https://int.siglent.com/download/drivers/?ProId=63



edit2: according to the readme, it seems to be for labview, and windows, not for sigrok.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2024, 03:16:14 pm by kripton2035 »
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #841 on: January 10, 2024, 03:31:15 pm »
I would also like to have the "frames" for the other decoders.
As far as I can remember, it's only available for I²C, but this endless scrolling with the other decoders is quite annoying.
Oh yes, and maybe rework the display optically, e.g. like the new rigol with gray/white and black letters.
That would be a nice feature.
"Comparison is the end of happiness and the beginning of dissatisfaction."
(Kierkegaard)
Siglent SDS800X HD Deep Review
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #842 on: January 10, 2024, 03:45:34 pm »
I would also like to have the "frames" for the other decoders.
As far as I can remember, it's only available for I²C, but this endless scrolling with the other decoders is quite annoying.
Oh yes, and maybe rework the display optically, e.g. like the new rigol with gray/white and black letters.
That would be a nice feature.

You have it for CAN, for instance.
But that is because I2C and CAN are by design single multi data packet by definition. So it is obvious it should be single line..
UART is on "electrical" level single character.  Character group is "application layer" basically. But there is no reason not to do it better if possible...

New Rigol layout is not so good in my opinion. If we want to have a good example then I would rather take LeCroy, R&S or Keysight as example for lister. Or Picoscope, but that one takes use of large screen...
« Last Edit: January 10, 2024, 03:48:21 pm by 2N3055 »
 
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Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #843 on: January 10, 2024, 04:17:58 pm »
I´ve meant the visibility, for my old eyes it´s better... ;)

Quote
I would rather take LeCroy

If Siglent looked like our Waverunner, I would party all night long... 8)


"Comparison is the end of happiness and the beginning of dissatisfaction."
(Kierkegaard)
Siglent SDS800X HD Deep Review
 
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #844 on: January 10, 2024, 04:26:31 pm »
I´ve meant the visibility, for my old eyes it´s better... ;)

Quote
I would rather take LeCroy

If Siglent looked like our Waverunner, I would party all night long... 8)



Me too buddy, me too.... :-DD
 
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Online Martin72

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #845 on: January 10, 2024, 04:34:06 pm »
 ;D

And here is what I meant, with visual representation of the values in the table, I can see it better.

Actually, the last posts are something for the bug/feature thread...
"Comparison is the end of happiness and the beginning of dissatisfaction."
(Kierkegaard)
Siglent SDS800X HD Deep Review
 
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Offline hansibull

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #846 on: January 11, 2024, 07:25:04 am »
Yeah bothers me too..
I reported it to Siglent. We will see what future brings...

To where can I report/request this? there are very good reasons why it would be possible to show the data as "frames" or "packs", where the minimum time between frames can be specified.
This makes the RTB2000 way more convenient for UART decoding than the Siglent. And I really want the Siglent to be the better one.

BTW does the Rigol DHO800/900/1000/4000 have support for frames when decoding UART?
Not to start a heated debate, I'm just curious if they have a solution to this.
 

Online Martin72

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"Comparison is the end of happiness and the beginning of dissatisfaction."
(Kierkegaard)
Siglent SDS800X HD Deep Review
 
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #848 on: January 11, 2024, 08:17:53 am »
Yeah bothers me too..
I reported it to Siglent. We will see what future brings...

To where can I report/request this? there are very good reasons why it would be possible to show the data as "frames" or "packs", where the minimum time between frames can be specified.
This makes the RTB2000 way more convenient for UART decoding than the Siglent. And I really want the Siglent to be the better one.

BTW does the Rigol DHO800/900/1000/4000 have support for frames when decoding UART?
Not to start a heated debate, I'm just curious if they have a solution to this.

Like I said, I reported it to Siglent. With all the explanations. We'll see what comes out of it.

And no Rigols don't have that either. Nor does very expensive and beloved Keysight on any of Megazoom scopes (1000/2000/3000/4000/6000)..
« Last Edit: January 11, 2024, 08:35:34 am by 2N3055 »
 

Offline hansibull

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Re: Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.
« Reply #849 on: January 11, 2024, 09:27:20 am »
Hi,

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dho804-test-and-compare-thread/msg5109750/#msg5109750

Martin

Thanks! This means buying a Rigol wouldn't be any "better" in this regard.

Like I said, I reported it to Siglent. With all the explanations. We'll see what comes out of it.

And no Rigols don't have that either. Nor does very expensive and beloved Keysight on any of Megazoom scopes (1000/2000/3000/4000/6000)..

I sent a descriptive email with screenshots to [sales a siglent . com] so let's hope they get how useful this is when doing UART decoding.
 


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