Siglent SDS2000X HD, 12bit, 2GSa/s high definition oscilloscope serie.

[tautech]

4 Mathchannels, 5 GSa/s, hdmi output, fast bode plot, generally faster in everything....wait a minute.
(just kidding)

LA function is much slower with HD model, just in case ...

Yeah saw that on YT and he don't have both set the same. 
Like comparing Granny Smith with a sweet eating apple. 

Which specific settings is killing HD's LA performance ?

Difference in speed is embarrassing to say the least.

I can easy see one in the video so gawd knows how many more differences in the setup there are.
You'd think anyone that undertook to do a comparison would at least take the time to Default each unit and set them up identically however not doing so gives them zero credibility IMO and less now that I challenged them and they haven't even bothered to reply.
So for now I call BS on that video until someone that knows what they're really doing replicates it. 

[TopQuark]

4 Mathchannels, 5 GSa/s, hdmi output, fast bode plot, generally faster in everything....wait a minute.
(just kidding)

LA function is much slower with HD model, just in case ...

Yeah saw that on YT and he don't have both set the same. 
Like comparing Granny Smith with a sweet eating apple. 

Which specific settings is killing HD's LA performance ?

Difference in speed is embarrassing to say the least.

I can easy see one in the video so gawd knows how many more differences in the setup there are.
You'd think anyone that undertook to do a comparison would at least take the time to Default each unit and set them up identically however not doing so gives them zero credibility IMO and less now that I challenged them and they haven't even bothered to reply.
So for now I call BS on that video until someone that knows what they're really doing replicates it. 

The video is mine, I didn't check the youtube comments so I didn't reply. I have reseted the scope a few times before, and that didn't change the digital mode performance.

Surely not 16wfms/s...

Yeah I get 16wfms/s too.
Well in that mode it handles double the data and data is routed slightly differently.. It has to be in Slow mode, because it has to capture buffer and process all of it before going to next one. It cannot just do bursts like in Fast mode.

Martin, you can check without probes, enable digital channels, and connect 100KHz (or more) signal to CH1 and trigger on that..

@TopQuark, sorry, what FW are you running..

I am not alone with the observation of 16 wfm/s.

First look at one today, an order for a customer arrived in a new shipment.
Of course it must be PD checked, FW updated, clock set to local time and the probes compensated !


Derived as the big 12 bit brother to SDS2000X Plus first impressions are it is small....and quiet, really very quiet !
Trace is quite fine almost like a good CRO but not lots finer than SDS2104X Plus in 10 Bit mode.

There's a few noticeable differences in design to 2kX Plus, smaller I have mentioned and narrower, taller and deeper is HD.
Assorted SDS2kX Plus vs HD comparison pics for your pleasure attached, 10 bit vs 12 bit.

Sales promo for both runs until years end.

I see that you had a chance to lay your hands on the HD. Why not give it a shot and see if you can make the HD perform as well as the Plus?

So for now I call BS on that video until someone that knows what they're really doing replicates it. 

I am not trying to bash the HD or the Siglent, I paid my own hard earned cash for both of the scope in the video. There's no need to get defensive.

In fact, I'd be very happy if anyone can prove me wrong and can point out how to make the HD's digital mode perform as well as the plus.

So far the unofficial Siglent representatives on the forum seems to only have been saying "I don't know what I am doing", so please actually tell us HD owners what to do, so that the HD will work well for all of us owners.

[tautech]

TopQuark
Surely you know that instrument settings can impact on its performance ?
The simplest way to experience this is with FFT and/or mem depth settings.

Even experimenting with these instruments I can make them underperform as required, learn and know your instruments capability cannot be ignored.

We tune a race car to get the best from it and for a scope we are again in control to get the best from it and what you did with HD in the video cannot.
Compare apples with apples you did not. Period.

I had one HD, a SDS2354X HD for a customer for maybe 2 days until we delivered it.

[TopQuark]

Yes, I am very aware that different settings affects the performance of the waveform update rate.

The thing is, unlike the Analog mode, where maximum waveform update rate spec is published, Siglent does not publish the maximum update rate spec in Digital mode, nor do they publish the exact settings needed to reach said spec.

In this case, I'm afraid us users poking different settings and trying to arrive to the digital mode performance spec by trial and error is the best we can do. And the best reported wfm/s in digital mode thus far is 16 wfm/s, as measured by two users, myself included.

I would very much welcome Siglent to point out what settings I have to have configured to reach a higher wfm/s in digital mode, or maybe at least they can actually list the maximum expected digital waveform update rate in the spec sheet to eliminate the need for speculation from the user side.

[markone]

4 Mathchannels, 5 GSa/s, hdmi output, fast bode plot, generally faster in everything....wait a minute.
(just kidding)

LA function is much slower with HD model, just in case ...

Yeah saw that on YT and he don't have both set the same. 
Like comparing Granny Smith with a sweet eating apple. 

Which specific settings is killing HD's LA performance ?

Difference in speed is embarrassing to say the least.

I can easy see one in the video so gawd knows how many more differences in the setup there are.
You'd think anyone that undertook to do a comparison would at least take the time to Default each unit and set them up identically however not doing so gives them zero credibility IMO and less now that I challenged them and they haven't even bothered to reply.
So for now I call BS on that video until someone that knows what they're really doing replicates it. 

You are not providing an answer to my question, so i consider that video valid and if LA operation is a must i would stay away from HD series.

[2N3055]

You are not providing an answer to my question, so i consider that video valid and if LA operation is a must i would stay away from HD series.

Why?
You can read and interpret what is on the screen faster than 20 times per second?
Segmented mode works full speed.

I don't know why 2000X HD cannot be put into "Fast" mode. Siglent should answer that.
Difference is that in "Fast "mode scope does fast bursts with several captures and then screen refresh for them. In a sort of digital phosphorus mode.
In "Slow" mode it displays full data after every single trigger. When using decoding that is prefered method.

So super fast screen refresh while looking at some data that changes all the time is only useful to show that data is changing.
I have super fast MSOX3104T and it is so fast that on fast changing data you see only blurr instead of any decoded data...
Not really useful, except to know it is changing. Which you would know anyways even on slower scope.

Don't get me wrong, users should know how scope behaves.. But, apart from feelgood "look ma, it's so fast" it is not much of a problem..

[markone]

-snip

Don't get me wrong, users should know how scope behaves.. But, apart from feelgood "look ma, it's so fast" it is not much of a problem..

That's the point, I call everything else BS.

[rf-loop]

I don't know why 2000X HD cannot be put into "Fast" mode. Siglent should answer that.

IF Sequence mode is ON,  AcqMode is forced to Fast. (also with Digital ON)
IF Sequence mode is OFF,  AcqMode is forced to Slow IF Digital is ON.
Sequence mode ON  AND  Digital ON  AND Analog Ch's OFF, it can capture up to 600kwfm/s (600ksegment/s)
HW: 01.00
FW: 1.2.1.1

Measured using:
Setup: 20ns/div; Digital only; all 16ch active; 60MHz 3V sqr to D0; trigger Edge, rising, D0
Memory Management: Auto
Sequence, 10000 segment (frames)
Calculated: 1000000/(([timestamp frame 10000] - [time stamp frame 1])/9999) result was around 601000

So bottle neck is not at all in digital acquisition itself. It goes to memory as fast as analog channels.

When Sequence mode OFF   AND  Digital ON, it is forced to Slow mode: capture - display - capture - display....


Setup(same as previous): 20ns/div; Digital only; all 16ch active; 60MHz 3V sqr to D0; trigger Edge, rising, D0
Memory Management: Auto
Most fast single interval between two capture responds around 22.1wfm/s but most slow interval responds around 10.6wfm/s. Measured using second oscilloscope (signal from X HD Trig out).   
Counting using hp53131A, X HD Trig out frequency 60sec average is around 12Hz.  12wfm/s. 

If there isn't some compelling reason behind this, unknown to me at least, this restriction seems a bit strange.
Some day we know more.

[temperance]

Hi, can someone do the following test:

1. Press the default button. (not strictly required. But then I'm sure you use the same settings)
2. Set probe type for CH1 to 10x
3. Set CH1 channel to 1V/DIV
4. Connect a 1Vpp signal to CH1 trough a 10x probe. (freq. not important. Anything within the scope bandwidth limit will do.)

The waveform goes out of screen now.

5. Enable CH2

CH1 looks normal now.

My scope is running the latest firmware.

Thank you

[Martin72]

Hi....
Disconnect everything from the inputs, let the scope running for at least half an hour and then perform self calibration...
Got the same but reversed (ch2 freaks out), after selfcal it´s gone.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-hd-missing-features-and-bugs/msg4600561/#msg4600561

Martin

[temperance]

Hi  Martin, thank you.

I did calibrate the scope twice. But the problem persists.

I'm not amused with this. But it seems to be a software problem which Siglent should be able to solve. Also average mode doesn't work on the "infected" channel.

[tautech]

Hi  Martin, thank you.

I did calibrate the scope twice. But the problem persists.

I'm not amused with this. But it seems to be a software problem which Siglent should be able to solve. Also average mode doesn't work on the "infected" channel.

Brand new instrument ?
Maybe it's a problem the latest firmware will fix:
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Oscilloscope/SDS2000X_HD_V1.2.1.1_EN.zip

[temperance]

Brand new instrument. Only six days. The latest firmware has been installed after seeing this problem. A self call doesn't seem to solve the problem either. Only turning on the second channel seems to resolve the problem.

Also, the offset increases and decreases when changing the vertical position of the "infected" channel.

[Martin72]

Do the selfcal again..
Background:
I do have the scope over 6 months and recognized this behaviour last month - And could swear, I never had it before.
In the 5 months before I did self cal after firmware upgrade and again for...for...don´t know it anymore.
But I did several selfcals.
Therefore do it again and report.

[temperance]

After an other two calibration cycles the problem on CH1 seems to be resolved. I didn't test the other channels.

I reported the problem to the supplier.

[Martin72]

As I said....
But it´s indeed a strange behaviour.

[temperance]

Overdrive recovery of this scope is excellent by the way. It seems nobody mentioned this.

[2N3055]

Overdrive recovery of this scope is excellent by the way. It seems nobody mentioned this.

Overdrive recovery is quite good. But what is class leading is DC offset range.

[danils]

Hello there,

I need to connect a current probe calibrating fixture (a 50 ohm terminator with a probe receptacle) to the internal wave gen but I did not find on the datasheet the maximum current limit.

Does anybody have this information?

Thanks

[Martin72]

Hi,

30mA:

https://www.siglenteu.com/operating-tip/sag1021-sag1021i-output-current-limit/

[Martin72]

The "operating tips" are nice ones...
This here I haven´t seen yet:

https://www.siglenteu.com/operating-tip/siglent-serial-number-format/

[TopQuark]

Hi, may I kindly ask HD owners and users to give the zoom in mode some deliberate frequent use when you operate the scope?

Under certain combinations of settings/modes for which I haven't figured out exactly, hitting the zoom in button crashes the scope completely and requires a reboot.

Upon reboot of the scope, it will have successfully entered zoom in mode, and going in and out of zoom will be successful, until you try zooming in after some normal usage and operation of the scope.

I wish to collect some more user testing and ideally narrow down the issue before contacting Siglent or filing an issue in the bugs forum post.

[Martin72]

Hi,

Signal feeding into 2 channels, then zoom in - No problem.
Measure* in Zoom mode no problem.

*) The settings makes me crazy, it´s not logical...

[rf-loop]

Measure* in Zoom mode no problem.

*) The settings makes me crazy, it´s not logical...

Please can you explain more about this.

-----------
@TopQuark
Please try to tell more facts about it. Try to find how this can repeat.
How old this unit is.
And include also your scope exact model, HW version and FW version. And then as complete a step-to-step script as possible so that the problem can be repeated.
I have used this model nearly one year and never seen this. I have  used it lot and for many many kind of things, even bit extreme including also high voltages for find if I can break it. Never seen crash problem related to zoom you told (except that you did not tell nearly any real details.)
One important thing is that there need be some known starting point where we know isntrument whole setup. Full Factory default setup is one good starting point. After then every single step before crash. This is how we can repeat it. Random this and random that do not help... it is like put monkey to room with typewriter and wait after output is complete works of William Shakespeare.

[TopQuark]

The only real deviation I can think of with my settings are the use of custom trace colors and the use of dot mode instead of vectors most of the time.

Activating zoom mode with cursors on screen, or with advanced measurements seems to increase the probability of crashing, but it is merely superstition at this point.

I think I'll try and shoot a video every time I hit the zoom button in case I catch it crashing. I'll also save the scope setup after it has crashed and rebooted.