Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes

[Calambres]

Nope. Both LAN cable and the WLAN adapter are always connected. Just switching fron WLAN to LAN and back to WLAN via the Utility menus.

[BillyO]

I stopped using WLAN so I can't check this directly for you, but I think what happens when you change interface the IP stack gets dumped and re-started.

Why not just connect your LAN to your router?

[Calambres]

Because the router is quite far away from the scope. In fact it is on another floor!

I'm using the WLAN just for that purpose but must connect to the AWG via LAN.

[BillyO]

I don't think your scope is any different.  If it can't detect an NTP server when the stack restarts it stops trying otherwise you will keep getting errors.

There are IP over mains adapters that will allow you to connect your lab LAN to the router.  I use these (https://www.amazon.ca/TP-Link-Powerline-Ethernet-TL-PA7017-KIT/dp/B084CZMYNM), but there lots of other makes as well.

[Calambres]

There are IP over mains adapters that will allow you to connect your lab LAN to the router.  I use these (https://www.amazon.ca/TP-Link-Powerline-Ethernet-TL-PA7017-KIT/dp/B084CZMYNM), but there lots of other makes as well.

Been there, done that! 

I'm a Short Wave DXer aficionado and once you plug one of those things in your house, the AM reception (LW, MW and SW) is jammed and, what is even worse, the PLC generated noise gets into my stereo's RIAA preamp for vinyl albums! 

[pope]

otherwise (USB) I get noise (that's another story  )

What sort of noise? Care to elaborate?

[Calambres]

otherwise (USB) I get noise (that's another story  )

What sort of noise? Care to elaborate?

Some time ago I said here that I have experienced a better Bode Plot speed using USB than via LAN but was a pain to use because I had both USB ports accupied: the front with a USB stick and the back with a WLAN adapter. The other USB port in the back (USB-B) was unsuitable for this. Tautech recommended me to use an USB hub to get extra ports and so I did. I bought one of those cheap USB hubs and plugged in the back USB-A port, and then plugged the WLAN port and the cable from the AWG into that hub.

Everythig worked fine but I began to experience some problems with noise: probing low amplitude signals, particularly when using 10X in the probes, resulted into high noise readings and what can be described as "occasional heebee-jeebies" with the scope traces. Suspecting from the recent hub addition I removed it and everything returned to normal. I'm pretty sure it may be because the USB hub I bought is one of those chinesium cheapos from AliExpress and sure it was cheap! the cable was not shielded neither the "shells" for the USB connections. I corrected those two issues and the problem disappeared almost completely with a little tiny bit of noise still present and very weak and less frequent "heebee-jeebies", but they're still there. As I do not want to have all my measurements permanently disturbed with noise and weird movements, no matter how weak they are, I decided to take the hub off definitely. Besides, I have no intention to try other hubs and discover the hard way they all make the same problems.

Because of that I'm now reverting to Bode Plot via LAN with the aforementined problems.

[mwb1100]

These NTP options might help:

  - "Sync" should force a re-synchronization with the NTP server.  You'd have to do this manually, but pushing a button is better then screwing around with the NTP server address

  - "Periodic Sync" on and "Interval" set to 1h should get you an automatic re-sync within an hour.  So if you can live with the time not being right for an hour...

It's too bad the shortest re-sync interval is 1h

[mwb1100]

Besides, I have no intention to try other hubs and discover the hard way they all make the same problems.

I certainly can't say that a hub from a respected vendor would solve your problems, but I do think there's a really good chance that a hub from a respected vendor would behave better than a 90 cent no name Aliexpress USB hub.

[tautech]

otherwise (USB) I get noise (that's another story  )

What sort of noise? Care to elaborate?

Some time ago I said here that I have experienced a better Bode Plot speed using USB than via LAN but was a pain to use because I had both USB ports accupied: the front with a USB stick and the back with a WLAN adapter. The other USB port in the back (USB-B) was unsuitable for this. Tautech recommended me to use an USB hub to get extra ports and so I did. I bought one of those cheap USB hubs and plugged in the back USB-A port, and then plugged the WLAN port and the cable from the AWG into that hub.

Everythig worked fine but I began to experience some problems with noise: probing low amplitude signals, particularly when using 10X in the probes, resulted into high noise readings and what can be described as "occasional heebee-jeebies" with the scope traces. Suspecting from the recent hub addition I removed it and everything returned to normal. I'm pretty sure it may be because the USB hub I bought is one of those chinesium cheapos from AliExpress and sure it was cheap! the cable was not shielded neither the "shells" for the USB connections. I corrected those two issues and the problem disappeared almost completely with a little tiny bit of noise still present and very weak and less frequent "heebee-jeebies", but they're still there. As I do not want to have all my measurements permanently disturbed with noise and weird movements, no matter how weak they are, I decided to take the hub off definitely. Besides, I have no intention to try other hubs and discover the hard way they all make the same problems.

Because of that I'm now reverting to Bode Plot via LAN with the aforementined problems.

Exactly what you would expect using 10x probes when input settings are set to high sensitivity levels.
Suggest you get some BNC to croc leads and use only 1x input attenuation when noise is a problem.

[Calambres]

These NTP options might help:

  - "Sync" should force a re-synchronization with the NTP server.  You'd have to do this manually, but pushing a button is better then screwing around with the NTP server address

  - "Periodic Sync" on and "Interval" set to 1h should get you an automatic re-sync within an hour.  So if you can live with the time not being right for an hour...

It's too bad the shortest re-sync interval is 1h

None of those options worked. Of course the first thing I tried was "Sync" to no avail until I retyped in a new IP address as stated before. Something must be wrong in the NTP coding.

I certainly can't say that a hub from a respected vendor would solve your problems, but I do think there's a really good chance that a hub from a respected vendor would behave better than a 90 cent no name Aliexpress USB hub.

Quite possible. ASMOF the problem was greatly reduced once I solved some issues with the hub. I may get a better hub... 

Exactly what you would expect using 10x probes when input settings are set to high sensitivity levels.
Suggest you get some BNC to croc leads and use only 1x input attenuation when noise is a problem.

Well, as I said previously, once I took the USB hub out of the equation the noise disappeared. It was not a problem with the probing procedure, it was indeed a problem with the hub. Besides, the signal I was probing was not that low: it was a 400mVpp sinusoidal wave directly from the SDG1062X.

But that is not the possible bug I mention. The bug is in the NTP coding once you change from WLAN to LAN then back to WLAN.

[tautech]

Exactly what you would expect using 10x probes when input settings are set to high sensitivity levels.
Suggest you get some BNC to croc leads and use only 1x input attenuation when noise is a problem.

Well, as I said previously, once I took the USB hub out of the equation the noise disappeared. It was not a problem with the probing procedure, it was indeed a problem with the hub. Besides, the signal I was probing was not that low: it was a 400mVpp sinusoidal wave directly from the SDG1062X.

But that is not the possible bug I mention. The bug is in the NTP coding once you change from WLAN to LAN then back to WLAN.

Interesting problem.
Have you tried placing the USB WiFi dongle into the front USB and have the USB hub on the rear USB and use only that for storage and the SDG tethering ?
That should give some physical separation between WiFi and the hub if there's interference between them.
BTW, is everything properly mains PE bonded ?

Meanwhile I'll see if I can replicate your findings......

[Calambres]

Interesting problem.
Have you tried placing the USB WiFi dongle into the front USB and have the USB hub on the rear USB and use only that for storage and the SDG tethering ?
That should give some physical separation between WiFi and the hub if there's interference between them.

No but I'm going to try just right now. I'll keep you posted.

BTW, is everything properly mains PE bonded ?

Sorry but I'm afraid I do not understand you... what's a "mains PE bond" 

Both the scope and the AWG are connected to the same mains line with good earth connection.

[tautech]

Interesting problem.
Have you tried placing the USB WiFi dongle into the front USB and have the USB hub on the rear USB and use only that for storage and the SDG tethering ?
That should give some physical separation between WiFi and the hub if there's interference between them.

No but I'm going to try just right now. I'll keep you posted.

BTW, is everything properly mains PE bonded ?

Sorry but I'm afraid I do not understand you... what's a "mains PE bond" 

Both the scope and the AWG are connected to the same mains line with good earth connection.

PE = Protective Earth. 

Just done a Bode plot of nothing much and with WiFi USB dongle in the front USB and hub connected to rear USB with storage and SDG connected, no apparent Bode plot trace noise and no loss of the NTP server.....in fact the clock kept advancing after removing the TP Link USB dongle even while connecting to a USB powered wireless LAN which I can use on any instrument that's not able to drive the TP Link USB dongle.

[Calambres]

Thanks a lot for your help, Tautech, but I'm afraid that either you didn't understand where the problem is or, more likely, I was not clear enough... 

There are two problems here:

1- The NTP server is not reconnecting when I switch (via Utility menu) from WLAN to LAN and then to WLAN back again. My concern was not related to USB thethering with the SDG for Bode plots at all. My problem is that, as I cannot use USB connection with the SDG for the hub/noise issues, I'm forced to use LAN connection to the SDG and thus I need to switch from the usual WLAN operating state of the scope to LAN, preventing the NTP service to run when, once the Bode Plot operation is finished, I try to return to "business as usual" with WLAN engaged. That is where I think there's a possible bug.

2- My USB hub being crappy, which is not the problem I'm asking for, just presented here as an answer to Pope's request some posts above. The noise problem is not when I'm using Bode Plot but always... the hub induces noise into the scope, although I've just discovered that it is not the only culprit. See later...


I have done what you sugested above and, yes, if I connect the (improved by me but crappy) hub to the back USB port and use it to connect both the SDG connection and the USB memory stick AND connect the WLAN adapter to the front USB port then the noise is gone. Good! but in that position the WLAN adapter fails a lot connecting to the router   

I told some posts above that my router is in a different floor. My shop is in the basement and the router is in the first floor albeit just above from where my shop is. Unfortunately I experienced time ago that just plugging the WLAN adapter directly to either the front or back USB ports in the scope yielded to very weak WiFi connection and was continuously losing and regaining connection. As a solution I bought a USB cable extender to put the WLAN adapter in the upper shelf of my shop gaining a lot of WiFi signal. That is, the solution you presented is not valid for me because having an extender USB cable plugged in the front port is not very practical.

BUT... while fiddling with all these configurations I suspected from that very USB extender cable and, know what?... it is also not shielded, as it was the cable from the hub!... again the chinesium curse strikes me back! it is quite possible that buying a good quality USB extender cable will solve the noise problems I'm having 

But stilll there's a possible bug with the NTP implementation in the scope! 

[tautech]

All good, I'll do some more tests with WLAN and LAN to see if I can see your problem.
Until now when NTP fails to link with the NTP server, pressing Sync always fixes that but I'll look for an issue with this and WLAN and LAN.
Get some  while waiting as it's already late here. 

[Calambres]

Until now when NTP fails to link with the NTP server, pressing Sync always fixes that but I'll look for an issue with this and WLAN and LAN.

Yes, that has also been brought up here before. After the WLAN-LAN-WLAN dance "Sync" does not work at all!... at least for me 

Get some  while waiting as it's already late here. 

Don't worry!     You have always been the most supportive!

[blurpy]

Google "usb3 interference". It's a pretty common issue to get bad reception if you place a USB 3 hub near a wireless dongle for mouse/keyboards or wifi access points. So not surprising if you see some of that interference in signals if it's near the scope.

[Calambres]

Well, my hub is USB 2.0 

[blurpy]

Well, my hub is USB 2.0 

Guess it's just really bad then

[Calambres]

yep! 

[mwb1100]

Here's my experience with the SDS1104X-E Software version: 6.1.37R8 and Uboot-OS version: 8.3

1) change network from WiFi to LAN (note: I don't have a wired Ethernet attached to the scope)
2) manually reset the date/time to 1 Jan 1970-something
3) switch Net interface back to WLAN; it automatically reconnects to the Access Point (as I'd expect)
4) Go into "Date/Time"/"NTP" and press "Sync"

The date/time is synchronized.

If I don't press "Sync" the date/time gets synchronized after the "Periodic Sync" interval expires.

Ideally, needing to manually sync NTP or wait for the Periodic Sync interval to expire shouldn't be necessary.  If Siglent is still working SDS1000X-E firmware, I'd suggest the following improvement be considered:

  - whenever the scope goes from a disconnected to connected state (whether LAN or Wifi), it should automatically Sync NTP if "Power On Sync" or "Periodic Sync" is on

What would be the most effective way to ask for this? (I'm hoping it's: "Tell Rob")

[t1d]

I have a 1204X-E. The Reference Trace Color is dark blue and I am having trouble seeing it. Is there anyway to make it bright red? I searched the manual, google and this forum, but I did not find the answer. Maybe I do not know the proper search term? Thank you for your help.

[Martin72]

Hi,
Only a few scopes on the market have the option of changing the colors.
Unfortunately, the 1204 is not one of them, as far as I know.
(SDS2k+ and higher have this option).
I think the color selection is one of the most useful features of all, perhaps siglent should be asked again whether they can also implement this for the smaller model.

[t1d]

Hi,
Only a few scopes on the market have the option of changing the colors.
Unfortunately, the 1204 is not one of them, as far as I know.
(SDS2k+ and higher have this option).
I think the color selection is one of the most useful features of all, perhaps siglent should be asked again whether they can also implement this for the smaller model.

Thank you, Martin.