Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes

[2N3055]

Good to hear it's OK now, and nice of you for reporting it back...
I usually say that user error is best type of problem, because it's easiest to solve...
It's always best for everybody, including the source of error...

[kcbrown]

Good to hear it's OK now, and nice of you for reporting it back...
I usually say that user error is best type of problem, because it's easiest to solve...
It's always best for everybody, including the source of error...

Yep.

Now, in my defense, I don't believe this to be pure user error, because I was getting exactly the same thing on the digital channels, and the trigger will not fire at all if you have the channels reversed.  In this case, the trigger would fire if the address was set to "don't care".  It's just that the address seen by the decoder (0x4e) was clearly not the address that would allow the trigger to fire.  As such, this clearly wasn't a case of doing something dumb like reversing the leads.  Nor does the signal look any different now, with it working, than it did when it wasn't working, at least that I can tell through inspection.

And you can see in the screenshots that the decoder clearly showed the address as 4e.

It would be one thing if the digital channels showed something different from the analog channels, but they showed the exact same thing.

Fortunately, a hard reboot of the scope took care of the issue.  I tend to leave electronic equipment like my computers, and like this scope, running continuously.  This tends to result in "bit rot" bugs showing themselves in one way or another.   This seems to have been an instance of that.

Anyway, all's well that ends well.  It'll be interesting to see if this issue resurfaces.

[2112]

Is there a best USB memory stick size for storing data? Has anyone experienced issues with one too large, say 2T? Would I be better off getting a 32G? Are there particular brands or sizes to avoid?

[tautech]

Is there a best USB memory stick size for storing data? Has anyone experienced issues with one too large, say 2T? Would I be better off getting a 32G? Are there particular brands or sizes to avoid?

Not so much for saving stuff to however for uploading stuff like firmware yes you are best to keep to 8GB or less and formatted in FAT32.
Kingston are well respected although I don't have problems with Apacer or Strontium.

[kcbrown]

Now, in my defense, I don't believe this to be pure user error, because I was getting exactly the same thing on the digital channels, and the trigger will not fire at all if you have the channels reversed.  In this case, the trigger would fire if the address was set to "don't care".  It's just that the address seen by the decoder (0x4e) was clearly not the address that would allow the trigger to fire.  As such, this clearly wasn't a case of doing something dumb like reversing the leads.  Nor does the signal look any different now, with it working, than it did when it wasn't working, at least that I can tell through inspection.

After more experimentation, I figured out the reason I had this problem.  It's pure user error.

There's a setting in the decoder configuration called "Include R/W bit".  My problem is that I had it enabled, and had totally forgotten about it (I thought it was for the purposes of display, i.e. show the R/W bit separately or something).  What this option does is to include the R/W bit in the address itself.  0x27 thus becomes 0x4e on a write!

The reason I didn't recognize 0x4e as 0x27 + write is that I naively expected that if the resulting address would include the R/W bit, the address bits of the displayed value would always be the 7 least significant bits and the read/write bit would occupy the MSB.   But it turns out that when the R/W bit is included, it's included as the LSB, and when it's not included the value shown is just the address alone.   This means that the effect is to shift the address one bit left when the R/W bit is included, thus yielding either 0x4e or 0x4f as the address.

Well, now that I understand what's going on, I can say unequivocally that the decoding and triggering system are both functioning perfectly.

[ExaLab]

Hi friends, I'm a new user of this interesting forum to which I hope to be able to contribute soon.

I recently purchased an SDS1204X-E and as I imagine it happens for many of you when you are getting ready to use a new product, I have focused (and partially stuck...) on a strange behavior of the instrument concerning the noise superimposed to the traces.
What I observe on my unit and which leaves me rather perplexed is that the noise superimposed on some tracks (channel 2 in particular ... the magenta) visibly increases when the related trace is moved from the center of the screen and positioned near the edge (using the vertical positioning knob).
This happens both with all the channels set in the GND position and in more marked mode, with the channels set in DC (or AC)
As you can see from the attached images, the thickness of channel two (magenta) and channel 3 (cyan), visibly increases when the related trace is placed near the edge of the screen.

Can someone check that?
The test is very fast: leave all the bnc inputs free, set all the four channels to 1V/div and to DC coupling, 100uS/div, acquisition normal, full BW and using the vertical positioning knob try to move the tracks near the edge of the screen.
Note: shorting to ground the BNC inputs nothing changes, setting the channels input coupling to GND the anomaly persists in a less marked way (as you can see from the images)
What leaves me stuck and unexplained is why the noise increases by moving the track away from the center and why this problem mainly affects channel two only?

Your help is of fundamental importance to me to understand if it is a HW problem (as I suspect) and therefore ask for the instrument replacement.

Thanks a lot to everyone

[kcbrown]

Hi friends, I'm a new user of this interesting forum to which I hope to be able to contribute soon.

I recently purchased an SDS1204X-E and as I imagine it happens for many of you when you are getting ready to use a new product, I have focused (and partially stuck...) on a strange behavior of the instrument concerning the noise superimposed to the traces.
What I observe on my unit and which leaves me rather perplexed is that the noise superimposed on some tracks (channel 2 in particular ... the magenta) visibly increases when the related trace is moved from the center of the screen and positioned near the edge (using the vertical positioning knob).
This happens both with all the channels set in the GND position and in more marked mode, with the channels set in DC (or AC)
As you can see from the attached images, the thickness of channel two (magenta) and channel 3 (cyan), visibly increases when the related trace is placed near the edge of the screen.

Before anything else, did you perform the self-calibration on the scope after letting it run for 30 minutes (so that its internal temperature stabilizes)?   If not, please do that first and see if the problem reproduces afterwards.   Self-calibration can be performed by using the utility button, then on the first page of options at the bottom (the right-most box will say "1/4" in it), activate the "Do Self Cal" menu option.   Make sure all inputs are disconnected from the scope before doing that.

I performed the same test on my scope and did not see this issue.

[rf-loop]

Looks that this is now spreaded more than one thread.

Previously here and answered.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg3388926/#msg3388926

[ExaLab]

Thank you all!
I will proceed with the self-calibration and let you know the response. An oscilloscope that visibly increases the thickness of the traces when you move them from the center of the screen I had never seen it before ...

See you soon and ... thanks again for the tip!

[ExaLab]

I did the self-calibration but nothing has changed!
So, with all 4 channels active (as in my previous reported setup) the issue is still there!

As a kind colleague of yours asked me, I also tried to exclude channels 1 and 4 in order to bring the sample rate to 1Gs / s. In this case the problem on channel 2 (and 3) seems to be much less marked!

Do you think my instrument has a problem? 

[Martin72]

I did the self-calibration but nothing has changed!

See here, what he meant:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg3392328/#msg3392328

It would be nice from you, when you could decide by yourself, in which thread you´ll post your problems.
This will help others to react to your posts.

[mirror]

Hello,
this is surely a dso beginner question. I own an SDS1204X-E with actual FW 6.1.35R2.

The problem is how can I cut an dedicated time range of the waveform for viewing and save to file from screen e.g. one period of 140ms in this case? The time base allows only the usual coarse granulation - same for zooming. In opposite the position has fine granulation with 2% of the time scale. I tried with remote too  - but it is same behaviour (TIME_DIV 14.2e-3 will be rounded to next value of 10ms).
I thought that if the dso has the points in the memory I can access these points accurate as well.
I made few experiments with segmented aquisition and certain trigger approaches - so far no luck.
Any hint is appreciated.
 ScreenImg.png (27.15 kB. 800x480 - viewed 321 times.)

[tautech]

Hello,
this is surely a dso beginner question. I own an SDS1204X-E with actual FW 6.1.35R2.
(Attachment Link)
The problem is how can I cut an dedicated time range of the waveform for viewing and save to file from screen e.g. one period of 140ms in this case? The time base allows only the usual coarse granulation - same for zooming. In opposite the position has fine granulation with 2% of the time scale. I tried with remote too  - but it is same behaviour (TIME_DIV 14.2e-3 will be rounded to next value of 10ms).
I thought that if the dso has the points in the memory I can access these points accurate as well.
I made few experiments with segmented aquisition and certain trigger approaches - so far no luck.
Any hint is appreciated.
(Attachment Link)

Welcome to the forum.

I think Zoom mode can do what you need but first you should select a slow timebase and then press the timebase control to enter Zoom mode. When zoomed you can magnify the timebase and pan across the waveform record using the H Pos control which BTW pressing it will return the horizontal trigger point to zero which is what you should probably do first.
Pop some more screenshots up which of course you can get by just pressing the blue Print button and then we can give more guidance if required.

[4x1md]

Is the firmware still under development? Are any new versions expected in the future?

[mirror]

Thank you tautech for the kind welcome.

I think it is a kind of misunderstanding. So I want it formulate in another way: The task is to view and to save the data only of one period of any frequency. I think with the coarse horizontal time scale it is not possible as we see in the attached pictures.

Me was told that some of the other dso supplier have a kind of fine timebase adjustment. OK - we have not!
So how we can cut of the desired time range from memory?
Thank you.

[tautech]

Thank you tautech for the kind welcome.

I think it is a kind of misunderstanding. So I want it formulate in another way: The task is to view and to save the data only of one period of any frequency. I think with the coarse horizontal time scale it is not possible as we see in the attached pictures.

Me was told that some of the other dso supplier have a kind of fine timebase adjustment. OK - we have not!
So how we can cut of the desired time range from memory?
Thank you.

Correct X-E does not offer a variable timebase however for the signals above 10ms/div comes close to what you want.

Some operational tips if I may:
Earlier I noticed you had mem depth set to 7k where this can be useful for smaller file saves it also limits the scopes capability where I believe you should only select a small memory depth when the need arises.
Horizontal trigger position can be locked at any position you desire so that when making timebase adjustments the H Pos never leaves the display and this will be more convenient when you need to display a single waveform period to fill the display as much as possible.
The feature to do this is in the Utility menu on P3 IIRC.

[rolkev]

100 % correct
That was the first thing I noticed after turning on the device.
This is really stupid.

[rolkev]

Has already someone botherd to exchange the Intensity/Adjust encoder with a detented encoder?

I did this with my two other DSOs (different brand) and found it to be a great enhancement for me.

More often than not, I manage to cause an unwanted jump in value or selection when pressing the knob.

Maybe, tis is just me...

Regards
Chris

Hello Chris,

Not only you. I will change the Encoder too, as soon as I find one with "soft tooth"

Regards
Volker

[4x1md]

Has already someone botherd to exchange the Intensity/Adjust encoder with a detented encoder?

I did this with my two other DSOs (different brand) and found it to be a great enhancement for me.

More often than not, I manage to cause an unwanted jump in value or selection when pressing the knob.

Maybe, tis is just me...

Regards
Chris

Hello Chris,

Not only you. I will change the Encoder too, as soon as I find one with "soft tooth"

Regards
Volker

Please share the model of the new encoder once you do it. The encoders are one of the biggest flaws of these models.

[mirror]

100 % correct
That was the first thing I noticed after turning on the device.
This is really stupid.

Sorry - what do you mean?
The problem with arbitrary time base resolution I mentioned or the explanations regarding trigger point positioning by tautech?

[mirror]

It seems that in FW 6.1.35R2 the channel input impedance setting softkey disappeared.
Also in the actual manual SDS1000X-ESDS1000X-U_UserManual_UM0101E-E05A.pdf the description is removed. No notice in release notes too!
I know that X-E has no 50  builtin, but if I used external Feedtrough then the information on the display will be usefull for documentation.

[tatel]

Hi all, I'm taking my time considering the purchase of a SDS1104X-E

Could you guys give me an update about how LA option is working? Even if I do purchase this scope after all, I'm not considering to purchase SLA1016 anytime soon, but to make my decision about what to buy it would be helpful to know for sure about this matter. The intel I have found so far looks somewhat contradictory.

Before FW 6.1.33 @BiilB and @Performa01 said it was "crippled":
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/logic-analyzer-decision-siglent-spl1016-probe-or-a-separate-usb-la/msg2342217/#msg2342217:

I can't find any post saying it has been fixed on 6.1.33. Can you confirm it has been fixed?

After 6.1.33 release  @Howardlong posted:

On the 1104X-E, the UI performance grinds to a halt with the LA attached

But then in an answer to other user @Tautech said:

“I have a Siglent SDS1104X-E hacked to 200 MHz and have installed the WiFi option.  At the moment I have no plans to get or use the Arbitrary Waveform Generator (AWG) or the Logic Analyzer (LA) but was wondering, is there any reason NOT to install them?  Will it have any negative effect on performance or in some other way?  If not, I might as well install them, perhaps in a few years some cheap AWG or LA hardware will turn up on Ebay.”

Not at all however you have 30 free trial uses for any options so they are effectively active already albeit only for 30 uses.

So what sould I think about? LA makes UI performance grind to a halt or does it work like a charm? Can you give any pointers?

Thank you all, this thread has been very helpful indeed

[jan28]

I’ve been wanting to write a proper review of the LA because I couldn’t find it either, but haven’t found the time yet. From my head I can sum up a few things regarding the LA:

I have the LA, the hardware is OK, but the software integration with the scope is simply bad. The plain 1104X-E has a lot of features for the money, but the LA software integration is nowhere nearly in the same league.

First of all you have to realise the scope looses several functions for both analog AND digital if you turn on the LA (‘digital’ button) mode (selecting the function display a message it’s not supported in digital mode):
- segmented memory
- history
- If you turn on decode (e.q. I2C, SPI) you also loose analog and digital sampling depth (I think it was half)
- masking
- roll mode
- fall/pass test (also for analog)

In the end the hardware has a nice sampling dept and speed but it is nog usable in many cases for me due to the above limitations. I was very disappointed segmented memory and history doesn’t work in digital mode. You can’t simply scroll thru 10 I2C burst and look at the differences... You have to work with a single trigger to catch what you want.

Regarding UI speed:
- increasing the sampling dept (aquisition depth) makes things slow
- adding decoding also makes the scope feel sluggish. Combined with a large sampling depth also slows screen updates
- changing the time division is SLOW, it takes 2-3 seconds for the scope to respond. Not what you’re used to in analog mode, it gives you a feeling the scope hangs.
- enabling more features like measure/cursor sometimes make the scope very slow, to the unusable. When in digital mode I try to keep things simple.

Once setup and running the screen updates are OK. But don’t touch buttons like time division/horizontal trigger (that’s not the feeling you want to have when using an instrument)

Very annoying: If you turn the scope off with a digital trigger setup, the trigger we revert to an analog default. Turning the scope on again you have to setup the digital trigger settings again. Other ditigal settings (channels, channel placement, etc) are remembered.

Given the above I think it is not very acceptable Siglent ask money for the software enablement of the LA. The hardware of the LA is already very expensive compared to the scope itself.

Edit: typos and finished last sentence.

[tatel]

I'm just wondering what was "fixed" in 6.1.33, even if I did read the release notes... Now I think I'm just beginning to understand why those notes were so absolutely non-specific about LA bugs fixed. At least some of these things were reported by @Performa01 some 27 months ago. IIRC, two firmware updates have been released since.

So it looks @Howardlong was just right when said

For an MSO at this level, I consider the older Rigol DS1000Z+ with LA probes to be a significantly better solution

I'm just looking for my first scope, and some days ago I said I wasn't considering DS1000Z+ "'cause it's outdated". Do you hear that? It's just me eating my own words right now. How the ignorant dares...

I guess people doesn't care about MSO capabilities or probably there would be much more reports about that. SDS1014X-E has a lot of traction, still just 3-4  disappointed LA reports. Should I spend €288 on that thing, I would probably be quite furious. More after 2 years with no solution.

I'll have to make my mind again about if I really need/want an scope with mixed signal capabilities. Probably it isn't worth the money. I'm an absolute noob, so I just know I want as much of a hassle-free device as possible. I'm not planning to buy another scope some years in the future, so it would be nice to have get one with MSO, just in case.

Good to know. Many thanks for your information

[Roman oh]

I bought an 1104X-E recently and am so far very pleased. It came with manual -E03A which I now see has been updated and current manual is -E05A. So I quickly scanned through for "what has changed?" (Unfortunately, the manuals don't reference specific firmware versions, etc).

Some differences I noted which might be significant.

1. The new manual drops the statement "SDS1000X-E has full BW with all V/div settings including 500uV/div to 2mV/div." which appeared in the old. (mine is 6.1.35R2; maintains tr, tf at around 1.4nS (rebirthed as 1204X-E!) at 500uV/div OK)
2. The new manual drops the statement, with respect to triggering, “No matter whether the input of the channel selected is enabled, the channel can work normally.” (Mine does not; If the channel is deselected, it does not appear as a trigger source option.).
3 The new manual drops the statement “SIGLENT provides passive probes for the oscilloscopes. For detailed technical information of the probes, please refer to the corresponding Probe User’s Guide.”  (Mine certainly came with probes).

So the question is - why the changes?