Siglent SDS1202X-E compensation issue (and other manufacturers ?)

[mr.fabe]

email to Siglent USA....

Scott,

Thanks for the email. 

I think it's unreasonable for Siglent to claim that it's somehow OK to have to re-compensate the probe when changing from one Y range to another - e.g. changing from 1 volt to 2 volts per division because there is "no specification for “probe compensation flatness” between ranges";  I own several scopes and this is the only one that has that 'feature'.  The de-facto performance for all scopes I've ever used is to set the probe compensation up using the provided calibration signal and then be able to adjust the other X or Y controls without any need to perform probe compensation again.  It's like Ford claiming that it's reasonable that I have to re-tune my car engine every time I shift gear because the specification for my car doesn't say that I can expect the engine to run properly after a gear shift because a gear shift alters the physical way that the engine is connected to the wheels and load on the engine has changed. 

The right thing to do would be to repair my 8-month old product for free; in Europe, I believe that it what Siglent are doing.

If you are unwilling or unable to offer a free return and repair, then I will take you up on the offer of the capacitors and instructions.  My address is:

nnnn xxxxx yyyyy
zzzz hhh 12345

Sincerely,

Ted

Your email from "Scott Rocco" is the same exact response (word for word) I received from Scott at Siglent USA. The only difference is that you were offered capacitors to fix the scope on your own.  The reply from Siglent seems like it was a form letter response from a customer service person, not a real engineer due to the low level of acceptance on test equipment.

Another engineer at Siglent has recently responded to an old problem in a different thread after a year.  Maybe he can get this compensation issue addressed in this thread. 



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[Gandalf_Sr]

Mr Fabe,

Do you think it might be possible to win Siglent over and get them to fix our 'scopes?

Ted

[mr.fabe]

Mr Fabe,

Do you think it might be possible to win Siglent over and get them to fix our 'scopes?

Ted

This was the person that responded in the other thread.. Steve Barfield

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=17966.msg1402043.msg#1402043

I am hopeful he may help but will not hold my breath for any real response in the forum spotlight.

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[tautech]

Mr Fabe,

Do you think it might be possible to win Siglent over and get them to fix our 'scopes?

Ted

This whole sorry saga has been a right PITA so WRT my remoteness from the factory I've reworked all I had in stock to the factory specified procedure posted here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1202x-e-compensation-issue/msg1333094/#msg1333094
Takes a good hour for your first one. The cap fitting takes only minutes. Disassembly, adjustment and reassembly takes the time.

Those that might have locations close to the Shenzhen, Hamburg or Ohio branches will be better served by getting their MB's replaced AND documented as such.

This was the person that responded in the other thread.. Steve Barfield

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=17966.msg1402043.msg#1402043

I am hopeful he may help but will not hold my breath for any real response in the forum spotlight.

I've never been given an 'official' Siglent position on this matter !

Right now we can only deal with the dealers, Hamburg and Ohio branches as the factory has shut down for the Chinese New Year.


Ted
Get back to Ohio and put some pressure on Scott or Steve (GM) to have you MB replaced.....point him/them to your posts on this matter and they'll sort something out.
Of course to have it replaced you'll be without it for a bit IF they have replacement boards on hand. Best you find out if they do and get one held before sending it in.

[VaZso]

My preference would be for a new PCB.  In the UK they have strong consumer protection which states that new goods sold must be of "merchantable quality", at the very minimum this says that the item must do what it was bought for - it's very disappointing that Siglent claim there is "no specification [claimed by Siglent] for “probe compensation flatness” between ranges"; that is pure BS IMHO. 

Maybe that was the reason of sending replacement main board, or maybe Chris-G has contacted them earlier than me.
In e-mail, they also told me these units are "operating as expected" and mentioned that "The "flatness" of the waveform can be adjusted using the compensation on the probe body".

So, they told similar BS for me and not provided any options other than sending capacitors (and replacement warranty sticker) to replace them myself.
Anyway, the BS above did not make me happy and not helped building up their reputation in my head, regardless of the successful self-repair.
My preference would had been also a new PCB (calibrated in factory), if I had that option... but the only option was the shipment of replacement capacitors and the mentioned BS - the latter was the most destructive for me. 

[dave356]

Very disappointed in Siglent over this issue.  It should be what's good for one is good for all.
I guess I live in the wrong country.  Some European country's dealers are replacing the motherboards
with new corrected calibrated boards.

Probably will not buy anymore Siglent equipment.
Was in the market for a bench DMM and a function gen.
Seriously gave Siglent thought on these until this scope issue came up and nothing
is being done from factory.

Sure, I could get caps thru Sig-USA and do it myself,  but why should I devote my time and
effort to correct what is clearly a Siglent factory issue.

Here is example of my deviation::

[tautech]

Very disappointed in Siglent over this issue.  It should be what's good for one is good for all.
I guess I live in the wrong country.  Some European country's dealers are replacing the motherboards
with new corrected calibrated boards.

Probably will not buy anymore Siglent equipment.
Was in the market for a bench DMM and a function gen.
Seriously gave Siglent thought on these until this scope issue came up and nothing
is being done from factory.

Sure, I could get caps thru Sig-USA and do it myself,  but why should I devote my time and
effort to correct what is clearly a Siglent factory issue.

I went to bat pretty hard about this and some in Siglent think this will die a natural death, sure it will over time but that does NO GOOD for owners that are affected by it now !
I've reworked ~1/2 dozen units and threatened to send Siglent an invoice for my time.....which I still might as even when you're well set up to do the rework would still take a good 1/2 day.


You guys in the States should be hammering Scott and Steve for satisfaction !

[dave356]

I went to bat pretty hard about this and some in Siglent think this will die a natural death, sure it will over time but that does NO GOOD for owners that are affected by it now !
I've reworked ~1/2 dozen units and threatened to send Siglent an invoice for my time.....which I still might as even when you're well set up to do the rework would still take a good 1/2 day.[/quote]
You guys in the States should be hammering Scott and Steve for satisfaction !
[/quote
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I guess I will just chalk this up to "Bad purchase decision"
Its a shame when a company will not stand behind their stuff.

I guess I will start looking at other mfgs for my other purchases.

Maybe Sig will "die a natural death"  if people shy away from their equip because of this issue'


Very unhappy with Siglent about this.

[mr.fabe]

Very disappointed in Siglent over this issue.  It should be what's good for one is good for all.
I guess I live in the wrong country.  Some European country's dealers are replacing the motherboards
with new corrected calibrated boards.

Probably will not buy anymore Siglent equipment.
Was in the market for a bench DMM and a function gen.
Seriously gave Siglent thought on these until this scope issue came up and nothing
is being done from factory.

Sure, I could get caps thru Sig-USA and do it myself,  but why should I devote my time and
effort to correct what is clearly a Siglent factory issue.

I went to bat pretty hard about this and some in Siglent think this will die a natural death, sure it will over time but that does NO GOOD for owners that are affected by it now !
I've reworked ~1/2 dozen units and threatened to send Siglent an invoice for my time.....which I still might as even when you're well set up to do the rework would still take a good 1/2 day.


You guys in the States should be hammering Scott and Steve for satisfaction !

Sad to hear that the lousy Siglent support that we end customers receive is extended to their distributors as well.  I will reach out to the folks at Siglent USA again.  In addition,  I have posted this issue in the Amazon review section (1 Star) and will look at the possibility of filing a formal BBB (Better Business Bureau) consumer warranty complaint against Siglent USA.  I will only use Scott Rocco's name in the formal complaint since he represented Siglent in my emails.  If other USA owners have the similar negative responses but with a different Siglent representative, I can add that person to the complaint as well.

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[Gandalf_Sr]

tautech, thanks for your support.  I don't expect to hear back from Scott until Monday.  I will pressure him to do the right thing; mr fabe, dave356, and vaZso are right, this is BS, Scott starts by saying "We are familiar with the probe compensation issue" which is tantamount to an admission that there is a defect.  It would cost Siglent USA very little to get a few motherboards, add the capacitors and do the calibration, and then use these to fix customers' SDS1202X-Es.  If I'm forced to, I can do the repair and I have the right ESD and soldering tools to do it but I should not have to.

I've bought 2 pieces of Siglent test gear in the last 12 months, the SDS1202X-E and the SPD3303X-E, to my way of thinking I was trying the brand out but I knew I was an early adopter for the SDS1202X-E; others in this forum suggested waiting until Siglent had wrung the bugs out which they probably have now but I, and others who bought early, should not be treated as suckers and Siglents' position on the issues is stupid.  It doesn't say in the warranty that the screen won't flash intermittently, if that started happening, what would be their position?

Like I have said, I'd like Siglent to do the right thing here.

[timgiles]

Is this just an issue on the 1202? I have an 1104 in the post.

[tautech]

Is this just an issue on the 1202? I have an 1104 in the post.

Yes and only for older SDS1202X-E before BB SN#'s.
See here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1376181/#msg1376181

[nctnico]

and others who bought early, should not be treated as suckers and Siglents' position on the issues is stupid.  It doesn't say in the warranty that the screen won't flash intermittently, if that started happening, what would be their position?

Like I have said, I'd like Siglent to do the right thing here.

Be ready to be treated like a sucker. Siglent competes solely on price and since there is a sucker born every minute they get away with it. There is a similar issue in the early SDG1000 function generators. These have excessive jitter on square waves due to wrong component values/poor design. That was never recalled (let alone fixed) by Siglent either. You are basically left to depend on the willingness of the dealer to fix the problem for you OR do the repair yourself.

[dave356]

Siglent needs to do the right thing on this issue if they are to restore my faith in their equipment.
Like I posted earlier, Siglent os "OFF" of my "equipment to buy" list.

I'm sad to feel this way about their stuff, The price point for what you get on capabilities and function
is hard to beat on most of the equipment.

Step up Siglent.

[StillTrying]

Siglent needs to do the right thing on this issue if they are to restore my faith in their equipment.
Like I posted earlier, Siglent os "OFF" of my "equipment to buy" list.

They're off my xmas card list as well.
I can't believe they're still messing about with this, OTOH, come to think of it I can!

My CML+ is at least as bad as your X-E.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1202x-e-compensation-issue/msg1326084/#msg1326084

[Gandalf_Sr]

nctnico, it was YOU who warned me    You can say I told you so!

I also have the sloppy binding posts issue on my SPD3303X-E power supply...

Maybe I should fix this stuff, sell it, and buy recertified Keysight stuff from eBay, that's how I got my Keysight MSO7104B.

But I'm not that upset really, there's still a good chance that things will work out and, for under $400, the SDS1202X-E is a great deal but I definitely have the compensation issue that dave356 shows in those photos.  I haven't heard back from Siglent yet so I'm not going to condemn them without giving them a chance to make things right.

later..

[dave356]

I'm hoping they take care of this because I would really like to get the SDM3055 or SDM3065X DMM.
They could restore my faith in them easily.

[Diabolo]

Hello,

Rather than wait for a Siglent solution to put the SDS1202X-E back on their own with the missing capacitors, I received the 4pf capacitors via Siglent Europe and installed them myself, just like that it's done and we speak more about it.
Siglent said that without the 4pf capacitors the standard was still respected, but it's a shame that Siglent did not go beyond by soldering these 2 capacitors to the factory.

Regards,
Diabolo

[N0NB]

Well, lucky me!

I ordered an SDS 1202X-E on January 23, 2018 through Amazon and the order was fulfilled by Amazon and delivered January 25.  Then today I run across this thread.  Sigh...

Yes, mine is a SN in the BAQ range and I have confirmed the change of waveform from 1.2V to 1.22V.  Ugh.   

So, I have a choice of whether to keep it or return it which I can do before the 24th of this month.  I was hoping to learn that Siglent USA is taking an active role in resolving this issue for those of us caught up in this mess.  I guess not.   

Perhaps my only recourse is to return the unit to Amazon and leave a poor review.  Maybe this is the only way to get Siglent USA's attention.   

I really want to like the scope with its small footprint it is perfect for my hobby use, but I wasn't expecting a poorly manufactured toy either.

[dave356]

Definitely return the scope and leave poor rating, indication operational issue with the unit.
Maybe if enough low ratings or returns, it might get Siglent moving in the right direction on this.

What they should have done is issue an immediate recall on these once the issue was proven.

[N0NB]

Yeah, I think that is probably the better course of action.  Maybe wait a few months and order again and (hopefully) get a later production model.

[dave356]

Sorry to hear about your scope, but its ben long enough that all of the "defective" units should
have been out of the pipeline.

[mr.fabe]

Well, lucky me!

I ordered an SDS 1202X-E on January 23, 2018 through Amazon and the order was fulfilled by Amazon and delivered January 25.  Then today I run across this thread.  Sigh...

Yes, mine is a SN in the BAQ range and I have confirmed the change of waveform from 1.2V to 1.22V.  Ugh.   

So, I have a choice of whether to keep it or return it which I can do before the 24th of this month.  I was hoping to learn that Siglent USA is taking an active role in resolving this issue for those of us caught up in this mess.  I guess not.   

Perhaps my only recourse is to return the unit to Amazon and leave a poor review.  Maybe this is the only way to get Siglent USA's attention.   

I really want to like the scope with its small footprint it is perfect for my hobby use, but I wasn't expecting a poorly manufactured toy either.

Check your order from Amazon. The unit most likely is Sold by Siglent USA / Distributors and shipped by Amazon... which means they are not fixing the bad  units but dumping them on unsuspecting buyers.

There was another person who recently  purchased from Amazon in the US and received a defective unit as well.  I believe he hails from France..

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[tautech]

Well, lucky me!

I ordered an SDS 1202X-E on January 23, 2018 through Amazon and the order was fulfilled by Amazon and delivered January 25.  Then today I run across this thread.  Sigh...

Yes, mine is a SN in the BAQ range and I have confirmed the change of waveform from 1.2V to 1.22V.  Ugh.   

So, I have a choice of whether to keep it or return it which I can do before the 24th of this month.  I was hoping to learn that Siglent USA is taking an active role in resolving this issue for those of us caught up in this mess.  I guess not.   

Perhaps my only recourse is to return the unit to Amazon and leave a poor review.  Maybe this is the only way to get Siglent USA's attention.   

I really want to like the scope with its small footprint it is perfect for my hobby use, but I wasn't expecting a poorly manufactured toy either.

Check your order from Amazon. The unit most likely is Sold by Siglent USA / Distributors and shipped by Amazon... which means they are not fixing the bad units but dumping them on unsuspecting buyers.

Yes, this would be very worrying.

NONB, who was the Amazon supplier ?

[N0NB]

The supplier is not all that clear.  Attached are screenshots of the main item page and of my order page.  The first gives a link to Siglent Technologies which goes to a page that lists most of their product offerings.  The second hints that the order was fulfilled by Amazon.  I suspect it is the latter as I had to pay Kansas sales tax on the purchase.