Siglent SDS1104X-E vs. Rigol DS1054Z Advice?

[vtwin@cox.net]

I just wish the sds1204 wasn't almost 2x the price of the sds1104

A sds1104 easily becomes an sds1204 With 5 minutes of tinkering.

[kcbrown]

I should really invest in 1 of these, it's worth the extra $200 for me I think. I just wish the sds1204 wasn't almost 2x the price of the sds1104

Saelig has the SDS1204X-E at $759, and the SDS1104X-E at $500.  So the 1204 is about 1.5 times the price of the 1104.  With the 1204, you get 4 200MHz probes that are extremely well-matched with the scope.  Siglent's store has them at $27 each, while the 100MHz PP510 probes are $10 each, making the probe difference $68 in total.  But if you were to get an 1104 and hack it, you'd need the probes in order to make it truly equivalent, and would thus be out another $108.  That would reduce the difference between the two models to about $150.

Is it worth $150 to get the additional 100MHz bandwidth without having to fool with hacking the scope (and having to deal with the possibility that Siglent will later revert the hack somehow in a later firmware update)?  That really depends on your preferences.

Either way, it's a very capable scope for the price, even for the 200MHz version.  On balance, the 1204's bang for the buck obviously isn't quite as good as the 1104's in light of the option to hack the latter, but it's still very good nonetheless.

[KungFuJosh]

With the 1204, you get 4 200MHz probes that are extremely well-matched with the scope. 

I don't know if you saw the probe test thread, but the Pico probes were even better than the Siglent probes. I bought 4 of the Picos for $48 shipped on ebay.

[twinter145]

I don't know if you saw the probe test thread, but the Pico probes were even better than the Siglent probes. I bought 4 of the Picos for $48 shipped on ebay.

And the PP510/PP215 probes are very similar as shown in this post:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/msg1434665/#msg1434665

So you shouldn't need to upgrade probes unless you're going for something like the Pico probes.

[KungFuJosh]

And the PP510/PP215 probes are very similar as shown in this post:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/msg1434665/#msg1434665

So you shouldn't need to upgrade probes unless you're going for something like the Pico probes.

Exactly the thread I was referring to, thanks. I was too lazy to look for it.

BTW- I don't find the Pico probes to be too thick or stiff at all compared to the others. If anything, I like them better.

[kcbrown]

I'd forgotten about the Pico probes, and certainly wasn't aware of their price.  They definitely look like a winner for these scopes.

And in light of the performance of the PP510 (which I'd also forgotten just how good it is), hacking the 1104 is easily the most cost effective option.

In the end, then, I guess it really just depends on whether or not you're willing to hack your scope.  The economics are substantially in favor of it, even though the 1204 is still very good capability for the money.

[photomankc]

Great thread, even with the religious debate and  .  I wish I had bumped into it prior to my purchase of the Rigol MSO1104Z.  I was OK with the reduced sample rate of the Rigol but when I got it out and played with it I was shocked by how sluggish the UI really is.  There are hints of it in videos but it is just different when you put hands on it and turn the knobs.  It just exceeds what I can live with and I was a little surprised by that.  I'm not normally one that quibbles over a tiny bit of lag but it was bothering me a lot.

I'm going down the same road.  I'm returning the Rigol 1104Z.  I just unboxed the SIGLENT 1104X-E and wow the UI difference is amazing.  There is a touch of control lag but not bad at all, generally things keep up with the knobs.  Velocity sensing on the knobs is nice too but seems prone to going a bit overboard.  That will take getting used to.  But I like the higher S/sec rate I can keep on 2 channels.  That puts it on par (sort of) with my old Rigol DS2202 which has 2Gs/sec but drops to 1 when using both channels.  Then I get the bonus of holding 500Ms/sec on 4 channels.  That seems more reasonable for a 100Mhz 4 channel.  I will likely look at trying to unlock the 200MHz bandwidth and Logic Analyzer capability.  I'm fine buying the LA hardware later on.

I will say that I am going to miss the buttons on the Rigol and the ease of turning on various measurements.  I also like the way all the UI elements point to the active channel.  But i think the SIGLENT is the winner for me.  I don't mind paying a little extra to get some better specs and a more responsive instrument.

[jazper]

I just wish the sds1204 wasn't almost 2x the price of the sds1104

A sds1104 easily becomes an sds1204 With 5 minutes of tinkering.

In my experience, having done it ( https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/unlocking-siglent-sds1104x-e-step-by-step/msg2048866/#msg2048866 ) , this is not the case. Blame people poorly documenting the way of doing it.

It takes about 30 mins to an hour, depending on whether you know enough about visual studio. Took me longer again cause I needed to grok about 4-5 different ways of doing it and figure out a way I was comfortable with. Some may find it easy/straight forward, but when you have about 20 different ways of skinning a cat, finding the right one for you is all the more difficult

That said, for a hobbyist who needs it, it's worthwhile.

[Fungus]

I just wish the sds1204 wasn't almost 2x the price of the sds1104

A sds1104 easily becomes an sds1204 With 5 minutes of tinkering.

In my experience, having done it, this is not the case.

It takes about 30 mins to an hour, depending on whether you know enough about visual studio. Took me longer again cause I needed to grok about 4-5 different ways of doing it and figure out a way I was comfortable with. Some may find it easy/straight forward, but when you have about 20 different ways of skinning a cat, finding the right one for you is all the more difficult

Yep. That's why I started that thread, because Siglent users were claiming that unlocking a Siglent was as painless as ulocking a Rigol. 

The latest method has people creating virtual machines so they can install Visual studio and run a key-generator program. That's progress!

[jazper]

No - the latest version is not running a key generator program.

The latest version has people dumping memory and extracting/testing keys using C#. The fact some people are using a virtual machine is irrelevant. It can be done without one, it's just more complicated.

One doesn't technically need visual studio, but realistically to label it as a key recovery vs an actual recovery there has to be at least some complication in the process. See https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/unlocking-siglent-sds1104x-e-step-by-step/msg1877477/#msg1877477 for a non Visual studio way. There's even a hybrid python way, the next post down...

There is no doubt in my mind that the Siglent is superior hardware/software even in its stock configuration. More intuitive UI, extra features etc. If you're willing to put more time into the "recovery" the value goes up a fair bit - but it is time, and it is effort. Some people aren't willing to do that.

Remember it's not certified at the higher levels either, so most labs won't touch the modified version... Strictly hobbyists.

[Rerouter]

At the simplest level, you need an ethernet cable, a 8 or 32GB usb drive, and a hex editor that lets you search for ascii text, have all 3 and you can find all your option codes in under an hour (I'm extending it out a bit, as people may need to learn how to drive there hex editor), without changing any part of the scope software from stock,

dump the memory image to the usb using the SHELLCMD command from the other thread,
fire up your hex editor, and search for the same string that the old coredump method had. should be nearby,

The findkeys thing just speeds up the bin file searching process but I did not have to use it myself.

[Fungus]

There is no doubt in my mind that the Siglent is superior hardware/software even in its stock configuration. More intuitive UI, extra features etc. If you're willing to put more time into the "hack" the value goes up a fair bit - but it is time, and it is effort. Some people aren't willing to do that.

Just get the new Rigol. The hack is simple and you get 350Mhz+, 8GHz sample rate, 400Mpt memory, etc. 

[jazper]

There is no doubt in my mind that the Siglent is superior hardware/software even in its stock configuration. More intuitive UI, extra features etc. If you're willing to put more time into the "hack" the value goes up a fair bit - but it is time, and it is effort. Some people aren't willing to do that.

Just get the new Rigol. The hack is simple and you get 350Mhz+, 8GHz sample rate, 400Mpt memory, etc. 

Blah  - I'm saying the siglent 1104x-e hardware is better than the Rigol 1054z hardware - It is, even the default specs are better.
The software is better too, not that you can't spend time on 3rd party apps etc to bring the Rigol up. It doesn't matter which way you go, ultimately, so long as the tool you have does the job you need it to do.

[goaty]

Don´t know if this has been mentioned, but the Rigol 1054Z has for me one big disatvantage which is this:
You cannot decode from segmented memory. Discovered this too late. This would be very useful for decoding serial/SPI/I2C over longer sequences.

[Fungus]

Just get the new Rigol. The hack is simple and you get 350Mhz+, 8GHz sample rate, 400Mpt memory, etc. 

Blah  - I'm saying the siglent 1104x-e hardware is better than the Rigol 1054z hardware

And I'm saying the DS1054Z doesn't have 350Mhz bandwidth, 8Ghz sample rate or 400Mpt memory.

[tv84]

Too much talk and not so much rigour!

I can't understand people who spit on what is given to them freely.

The fact that the licenses can be recovered from memory allows anyone in any language to devise their way to do it.

Have problems with VS, bad luck. Do it in assembly.

The recovered licenses are not an hack! Their are as official as they come.

The reason why many times simpler methods are not made public is simply to prevent this type of persons from underserved benefits.

[TheNewLab]

Ok this is the lowest price I have seen.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Siglent-SDS1104X-E-4-Ch-100MHz-Super-Phosphor-Oscilloscope/264093083971

I actually bought one... ..er another...now I can hack away and not worry about bricking it up 

[Harjit]

I think if you buy it from Siglent with the discount from Tautech, it is less than the eBay price + shipping.

[jazper]

Too much talk and not so much rigour!

I can't understand people who spit on what is given to them freely.

tv84 - please don't see what I'm saying as that - I appreciate all the effort you have put into this.

All I am saying is that key recovery on the siglent is not a 5 minute process - it is about a 30min-1 hour process at least.

[hevak]

Just a heads up, Amazon is selling these for $430.88, which seems like a great price.

[Dave8266]

Just a heads up, Amazon is selling these for $430.88, which seems like a great price.

That's tied with the lowest price ever (on Amazon) from this past January, according to Keepa.

[0xFFF0]

Does anyone know if there is a successor to the Rigol 1054Z? In the meantime, it is technically somewhat out of date.

[nctnico]

Does anyone know if there is a successor to the Rigol 1054Z? In the meantime, it is technically somewhat out of date.

If cost is an issue then the GW Instek GDS-1054B (after using a key generator to liberate more bandwidth) is a good alternative with much better performance. Depending on where you are the price is about the same compared to the Rigol DS1054Z.

[Fungus]

Does anyone know if there is a successor to the Rigol 1054Z? In the meantime, it is technically somewhat out of date.

If cost is an issue then the GW Instek GDS-1054B (after using a key generator to liberate more bandwidth) is a good alternative with much better performance. Depending on where you are the price is about the same compared to the Rigol DS1054Z.

It's actually cheaper than the Rigol right now and definitely the one to get if you're looking for an entry-level 'scope:

https://www.tequipment.net/Instek/GDS-1054B/Digital-Oscilloscopes/?search=true

[123rolle]

I've been looking for a first scope. The additional features for waveform generator and MSO function in 1104x-e interest me to go on that direction. Can those be hacked and only thing needed is the hardware? Also are those waveform generator and MSO worth the money or would it be better to just get standalone device for those features? Also is there has been any new good competitors for the siglent scope, i'd be happy to hear. I am located in EU so probably competitors should be found also in EU to be bought.