Author Topic: Siglent SDS1000X and (MSO) SDS1000X+ series oscilloscopes  (Read 112397 times)

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Offline vpv

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X and (MSO) SDS1000X+ series oscilloscopes
« Reply #100 on: September 02, 2016, 08:14:40 pm »
Thank you very much for your reply!
I have never had read about this option and I did not know that comes with these oscilloscopes.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X and (MSO) SDS1000X+ series oscilloscopes
« Reply #101 on: September 02, 2016, 08:47:19 pm »
Thank you very much for your reply!
I have never had read about this option and I did not know that comes with these oscilloscopes.
TBH there's little documentation except in the SDS2000 series user manuals.
Even the later SDS2kX have the functionality installed but it's not apparent as it only operates in a special mode ATM.
How mature this option is I'm unsure, one can only imagine it's hidden as it still has some bugs.  :-//
Something our beta testers need to get finished so it's better documented and available to all.
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Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X and (MSO) SDS1000X+ series oscilloscopes
« Reply #102 on: September 09, 2016, 11:13:20 pm »
All the SDS1kX series of DSO's have a 15% saving for September.
Contact your local reseller for their pricing.
Use the Where to Buy link on the Siglent .com, EU or US sites to find your local seller.

Eg. the 100 MHz 2 channel model (not Plus) is now listed @ $424 on the US site and Decode option is free.  :-+
http://siglentamerica.com/qyxwxx.aspx?id=4896&sid=216

Promotion offers may differ in other regions.
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Offline vpv

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X and (MSO) SDS1000X+ series oscilloscopes
« Reply #103 on: September 24, 2016, 08:46:33 pm »
Why for Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope has a theme with 119 pages, but for Siglent SDS1102X has only 5? :)
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X and (MSO) SDS1000X+ series oscilloscopes
« Reply #104 on: September 24, 2016, 08:56:56 pm »
Why for Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope has a theme with 119 pages, but for Siglent SDS1102X has only 5? :)
Theme?
Do you mean datasheets and manuals ?  :-//

SDS1000X datasheet = 15 pages
SDS1000X+ manual = 204 pages

All documents:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-wd.aspx?id=4688&tid=1&T=2

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Offline vpv

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X and (MSO) SDS1000X+ series oscilloscopes
« Reply #105 on: September 24, 2016, 09:19:56 pm »
No, I mean themes(topic) in this forum.
Much has been written and discussed about Rigol DS1054Z, and almost nothing about Siglent SDS1102X for example.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X and (MSO) SDS1000X+ series oscilloscopes
« Reply #106 on: September 24, 2016, 09:51:09 pm »
No, I mean themes(topic) in this forum.
Much has been written and discussed about Rigol DS1054Z, and almost nothing about Siglent SDS1102X for example.
Hello!
I bought Siglent SDS1102X and so far I'm very pleased.
Then you should start a thread with your opinions, likes, dislikes and suggestions of any improvements needed.
There's a number of members with these DSO's and feedback is always welcome.
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Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X and (MSO) SDS1000X+ series oscilloscopes
« Reply #107 on: September 27, 2016, 10:21:18 pm »
There is now a # of vids of these scopes on Youtube, not so many very recent and most posters do not have real familiarity with these DSO's.  ::)

A recent one that spends some time running through the UI that might be useful for some:

28 mins

Another that a part of has been linked previously in this thread that is somewhat out of date as the Plus models with MSO are now available.

Siglent SDS1102X v Rigol MSO1074Z
36 mins
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Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X and (MSO) SDS1000X+ series oscilloscopes
« Reply #108 on: September 28, 2016, 05:05:58 am »
Showing a sine wave on the screen of the scope, is really basic basic basic :)
At least he could have walked through some menus! This video is not very useful!
 

Offline vpv

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X and (MSO) SDS1000X+ series oscilloscopes
« Reply #109 on: September 28, 2016, 11:39:57 am »
Thanks, tautech for these videos.
Before I buy Siglent SDS1102X, about six months I watching the videos and reading the forums to decide which oscilloscope to buy - Siglent SDS1102X or Rigol DS1054Z.
I noticed that more has been written and discussed about Rigol DS1054Z than Siglent SDS1102X. But the most comments about Rigol were to software bugs, hardware problems and how to hack Rigol.
I purposely drew attention to the number of posts to show who oscilloscope is better. Obviously at Siglent not software and hardware problems and therefore we do not discuss it.  :)

P.S. Sorry for my bad English.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X and (MSO) SDS1000X+ series oscilloscopes
« Reply #110 on: September 28, 2016, 12:40:31 pm »
That is bad way to make a choice! You better investigate which oscilloscope has the most mature firmware (least bugs) and best features the moment you want to buy it.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X and (MSO) SDS1000X+ series oscilloscopes
« Reply #111 on: September 29, 2016, 12:45:54 am »
That is bad way to make a choice! You better investigate which oscilloscope has the most mature firmware (least bugs) and best features the moment you want to buy it.
I'm quite sure member vpv did his homework as you'll see in this post that you didn't bother to read.  :palm:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1000x-series-oscilloscopes/msg1017493/#msg1017493

Trolling again nctnico?
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Offline nctnico

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X and (MSO) SDS1000X+ series oscilloscopes
« Reply #112 on: September 29, 2016, 01:08:10 am »
That is bad way to make a choice! You better investigate which oscilloscope has the most mature firmware (least bugs) and best features the moment you want to buy it.
I'm quite sure member vpv did his homework as you'll see in this post that you didn't bother to read.  :palm:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1000x-series-oscilloscopes/msg1017493/#msg1017493

Trolling again nctnico?
No just stating that choosing a scope based on which one has the least post/pages written about it isn't a good way to determine which scope has the least bugs as vpv is suggesting.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X and (MSO) SDS1000X+ series oscilloscopes
« Reply #113 on: October 14, 2016, 04:36:01 am »
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Offline znroot

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X and (MSO) SDS1000X+ series oscilloscopes
« Reply #114 on: October 14, 2016, 02:07:30 pm »
Any news about the Power Analysis of the SDS1000X series? :-\

I love negative feedback
 

Offline rf-loopTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X and (MSO) SDS1000X+ series oscilloscopes
« Reply #115 on: October 24, 2016, 09:28:19 am »
Some peoples asked from me that if I can somehow explain History function and  Sequence function.

People who sit with me of course with oscilloscope + pen and paper it is easy to explain and also show.
After then I make freehand paper draw + text bit more clean. Perhaps it may help someone to imagine somehow better what these are.
Note that in SDS2kX there is lot of more wfm memory (140M) + also of course then much more waveform history buffer memory.
Amount of waveform history buffer memory is not defined in specification so this have perhaps also confused peoples.
When user turn Sequence mode on it also may feel strange because depending settings, what you see on display looks like very slow.
It need remember that even if it capture 80000 waveforms (segments) in one Sequence, it do not update display at all.  There is only raw ADC sample points pushed to memory. After Sequence is ready, it start process every individual waveform from buffer for display, producing perhaps line or sinc curve between dots in every waveform (segment) and this all for every 80000 segment and also producing intensity gradient. Every 80000 waveform is stacked to one display (old error when it show only reduced amount of  segments after Sequence ready  is repaired time ago. Also in this error in older FW  when search memory, they all are there).
After then it stop or continue next Sequence, depending user selections.

Sequence mode segment buffer and normal use waveform history buffer is same. Also view tool is same "History".


Attached this some kind of "explanation" image.




Edit/Add:

It need explain bit more. There was question about history record data.

First it need understand that it is very different thing if we talk about display memory or acquisition memory.  It can think that display memory is just pixel map for display. There is not anymore (exept in some special cases) pure raw ADC data.
When scope capture "waveform" say example 14kpts this go from ADC to sampling memory (this is lenght what often see in specifications "memory length" or how they name it). 
Displayed waveform length is always 700 points horizontally. Siglent captured waveform length is always compressed to display waveformd width (700pixel). What is captured length is what you see, there is not overlapp. No part of waveform unvisible out from right or left side. Whole capture length, in this case (example)  14kpts is compressed for display 700pts. In this case 20 data points to one point (horizontally, and vertically as they are).  It is bit different than some other scopes.

Now, when it capture one 14k it is compressed and produced "image" compatible for display memory and mapped it to display memory together with possible previous waveform there.. Then capture next and again compress and map it to same display memory together with previous capture it continue until display memory is updated for view on TFT. More fast wfm/s more  these captured waveforms are over each other in this display memory. More they hit same pixels also intensity grow. (it is bit more complex how to produce intensity in details but this is not important now)

Some other oscilloscopes may record these compressed for display waveforms or sequentially whole display memory using some interval.
In these cases there may be also that display map have only small part of captured waveform and rest of capture length is out from display. Often in these scopes have some kind of image what imitate display area and whole capture length. This is also case in Siglent SDS1000CML and similar.


Back to Siglent SDS1000X models and waveform history buffer. Same time it capture waveform to memory (in this case 14kpts) and produce "image" from this it also copy this true capture 14kpts to waveform history buffer. Every time new waveform is captured, raw 14k data is pushed to history buffer (and stamped with trigger time).  Blind time in sequential waveform buffere is same as running scope blind time. All captured real raw data is there. But still there is of course not data what is not captured when it have dead time waiting nect possible trigger event. But it is still very very different in most cases than "History" or "waveform record" what many oscilloscopes in this price class and even bit over have.

After stop scope for looking history, you have access to full captured raw data instead of just display memory snap shots. In this example case up to 3912 stored 14kpts waveforms. (total bit over 54Mpts). (in this case scope settings is 1us/div 1Ch in use and 1GSa/s used. In this case wfm length is 14kpts.
After you stop and look these stored waveforms they look same as in window. 700pts wide. But, there is 15kpts data for every single wfm. Just turn window zoom on and look. Or in stop mode, of course also whole screen can zoom in and out just using t/div.
You can measure, use cursors and so on. You can turn it dots mode, lines, you can turn Sin(x)/x on and off (and see how it draw via true sampled points).

But still, even when this is feature is really nice and what Rigol or most of competitors do not have at all you need underrstand how digital oscilloscope work and it is not continuous history. It have blind time between every capture. Just as normally running scope have.
After every capture, it is waiting until it can capture next waveform. If it is R&S car price RTO or expensive Keysight top model. All these have dead time between waveforms. Only in very slow (more or less slow) some oscilloscopes can record continuous stream.

In this example I use not so good 1us/div, 14kpoints, 1GSa/s.
If there is signal what give trigger events enough fast, scope can capture up to 4220 waveform/s.
One waveform length is 14us.  One capture period is 1000000us/4220=234us  So, there is (average) 220us blind time and 14us captured data.
 But, different time bases, different signal, different memory setting and so on all may change this blind time ratio.
Remember it also depends your signal. In worst case trigger system is just agen recovered and ready for next trig but in your signal it happend just before scope can trig again. Now it is waiting when signal have next change what meet trig settings. Or if in auto modde there come auto trig before your signal trig. This is also important to remember. If this must not happen do not use "auto trig".

If need less blind time then there is Sequence mode. With same settings (1Ch, 1us/div) it can capture max 65000 wfm/s so in this example case 1000000/65000 = 15.4us. 14us wfm lenth and 1.4us blind time cap between waveforms (segments). But seqment mode have other limit. Between whole sequences it need long pause for process all captured data at once for diplay memory for view)

For max amount of waveforms in history buffer you can look table about wfm/s speeds where is also sequence speed and all needed infomation. Using 10ns/div wfm history buffer can keep 80000 waveforms. (54M wfm buffer lenth is not available with all t/div settings. It is compromize with many variables)

Summarized in brief:
In history waveform buffer, there is real raw full used memory length waveforms. It is NOT display memory map history.
It is real captured waveforms "raw data" history buffer, Image processing is totally out from this process when it push every single captured full memory length waveform data to buffer.


« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 07:46:38 am by rf-loop »
EV of course. Cars with smoke exhaust pipes - go to museum. In Finland quite all electric power is made using nuclear, wind, solar and water.

Wises must compel the mad barbarians to stop their crimes against humanity. Where have the (strong)wises gone?
 
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Offline jvhb

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X and (MSO) SDS1000X+ series oscilloscopes
« Reply #116 on: October 27, 2016, 06:15:07 pm »
Hi RF Loop, thanks for all your informative posts on the Siglent scopes. Good work!

I have been looking at the SDS2104X for a while (since the special offers began), but was hoping to see a review on the Eevblog before buying. But perhaps Dave doesn't have the 2204X unit from the teardown any longer?
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X and (MSO) SDS1000X+ series oscilloscopes
« Reply #117 on: October 28, 2016, 07:00:55 am »
Hi RF Loop, thanks for all your informative posts on the Siglent scopes. Good work!

I have been looking at the SDS2104X for a while (since the special offers began), but was hoping to see a review on the Eevblog before buying. But perhaps Dave doesn't have the 2204X unit from the teardown any longer?
Welcome to the forum.

No he doesn't. He had it on loan from Charles his local Siglent distributor.

These models are on promotion at the moment, that is if you bought the SDS2104X, you'd get a SDS2204X.
So if you are looking at the SDS2104X, you'd only need to buy at the SDS2074X price.

There's a few other forum members that have these DSO's so anything else you'd like to know is probably best asked in this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent's-new-product-sds2000x-series/
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Offline jvhb

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X and (MSO) SDS1000X+ series oscilloscopes
« Reply #118 on: October 28, 2016, 05:12:14 pm »
Allright, thanks for the info  :)
 

Offline rf-loopTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X and (MSO) SDS1000X+ series oscilloscopes
« Reply #119 on: October 31, 2016, 07:40:27 am »
Some differences  between Rigol DS1102Z and Siglent SDS1102X
Of course there is lot of things and features in both and this is NOT complete list at all. Also it must NOT read as Which one is better.
I do not give any kind of recommendation what brand or model is better. 
Better for individual user is highly dependent what user need and what things he like or not like.

When  we talk oscilloscopes, oscilloscope need be good enough. After then come  if it is good Logic analyzer for state and/or time analyze, if it is good Serial communication analyzer, or if it is good multimeter or if it is good paper weight or there is fft (real fft analyzers are whole other things) or torch or good for hobby corner decorating. If you really Need 3 or 4 channel and this is must, then you need select 4 channel model.

In my own use, 1-2 channels is enough in 99.5% from total scope hours. Even inside this 0.5% things can easy solve with 2 channel + ext trig or just 2 channels but is more nice to use >2 channel. Then very small part is when really Need 3-4 channels. But, I have only over 40 years experience with scopes. Maybe when I get more experience this change, or if things where I need scope change. But, this is my individual case. This is reason why I also have 4 channel scopes and not only 2 channel scopes what I mostly use. I have, and also I use, still also analog scopes. Different needs, different scope. This is why I use also still some times analog scopes and what ever digital scope changes new models etc... one do not change - never - I still use some times analog. Not for nostalgic reasons, but in some cases for earn money. So simple. Just because they are ultra fast use in some service situations and I can trust there is not digital "miracles" and "traps", no endless menu searching for adjust. I can just look even via mirror scope screen and without looking adjustments I can "blind adjust" all what need and fast. No one digital scope can beat this usability in some special cases.


If you really do not know what you need then you may think you need all features. Just because you do not know what you need or do you even need oscilloscope. Even if you really do not need oscilloscope and do not deeply know how they work and what they are, still they are fun to have. Some day it may give some inspiration what can study more. So, if your hobby is some how electronic and if you have free money for use, buy oscilloscope if you first have more important things. Buy what ever scope, it is better than no scope at all.

But, without enough knowledge,how expensive and superior scope you have, it do not rise your skills and knowledge anything. Even worst case too fine and complex high performance scope may lead even more problems. You perhaps see something what you must not care but you start think it is important, just because you do not know. It need knowledge and experience what visible thing about electric phenomenon on the screen is important and what not.
You know poor skills photographer. Do he take better photo if he buy expensive professional grade camera instead of cheap pocket camera. No, perhaps even more bad. Now he think all adjustments and features etc and he forget most important think, picture itself and basics of image "art".
 
Do not think if you buy entry level or bit better scope and then you want it last next ten years. Why...  when your knowledge and skills go up you want change scope to better match your changed needs. Throw then away this 2 - 5year old "ancient" digital scope and buy new. If you have high quality and robust analog, well keep it still next 10 - 30 year independent of what ever digital you have.

You can not now find "best" scope what meets your needs next 10 year or next 20 year. In this time all change in digital scopes. Even after 1 - 2 year use your needs may change and just keep old as second scope (some times nioce to have more than one) or sell it  as long as it is still not ancient for entry level use. If it is good brand like Rigol, Siglent-today, Goodwill, etc.. you can sell these in second hand markets if you do not wait same price what is new.  (of course big names also, but I do not talk now these because this is about under 1k$ scopes)

EV of course. Cars with smoke exhaust pipes - go to museum. In Finland quite all electric power is made using nuclear, wind, solar and water.

Wises must compel the mad barbarians to stop their crimes against humanity. Where have the (strong)wises gone?
 
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Offline nctnico

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X and (MSO) SDS1000X+ series oscilloscopes
« Reply #120 on: October 31, 2016, 10:03:56 am »
In my own use, 1-2 channels is enough in 99.5% from total scope hours. Even inside this 0.5% things can easy solve with 2 channel + ext trig or just 2 channels but is more nice to use >2 channel. Then very small part is when really Need 3-4 channels.
Sorry but this is a rather cheap attempt to sell a 2 channel scope in a world where 4 channels have become the standard. Noting evrything optional on the DS1000Z which is optional as being worse than Siglent is just :palm: because everybody hacks the rigol DS1000Z and has everything which is optional included for free anyway. I'm also missing comparison of features like FFT length, limits on Hi-res modes, decoding and so on. You write you don't want to make one scope look better than the other but meanwhile that is exactly what you are doing. I know Tektronix and Agilent do the same type of comparisons but they make themselves look ridiculous by comparing paper specs and leave the details which really make the difference out. Don't become some marketing droid!
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline rf-loopTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X and (MSO) SDS1000X+ series oscilloscopes
« Reply #121 on: October 31, 2016, 11:39:43 am »
Don't become some marketing droid!

Do you mean like you? No, this I can promise - forever.
EV of course. Cars with smoke exhaust pipes - go to museum. In Finland quite all electric power is made using nuclear, wind, solar and water.

Wises must compel the mad barbarians to stop their crimes against humanity. Where have the (strong)wises gone?
 

Offline smarteebit

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X and (MSO) SDS1000X+ series oscilloscopes
« Reply #122 on: November 01, 2016, 12:53:15 am »
Don't become some marketing droid!

Do you mean like you? No, this I can promise - forever.

Guys, relax. Peace, & inner peace. @nctnico @rf-loop
 

Offline rf-loopTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X and (MSO) SDS1000X+ series oscilloscopes
« Reply #123 on: November 02, 2016, 07:45:05 am »
Added more explanation  under image  to this previous message about history wfm buffer working.
EV of course. Cars with smoke exhaust pipes - go to museum. In Finland quite all electric power is made using nuclear, wind, solar and water.

Wises must compel the mad barbarians to stop their crimes against humanity. Where have the (strong)wises gone?
 

Offline rf-loopTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDS1000X and (MSO) SDS1000X+ series oscilloscopes
« Reply #124 on: November 04, 2016, 08:49:02 am »
New FW coming soon.
Example bit improved FFT etc.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 10:59:30 am by rf-loop »
EV of course. Cars with smoke exhaust pipes - go to museum. In Finland quite all electric power is made using nuclear, wind, solar and water.

Wises must compel the mad barbarians to stop their crimes against humanity. Where have the (strong)wises gone?
 


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