Siglent SDS1000X HD 12bit DSO's

[tautech]

Released 28 Feb 2024.

2 GSa/s 12 bit designs of 100MHz and 200MHz with 2 and 4ch versions



Early prerelease HW:


2 and 4ch versions
50/1M Ohm inputs.
100 Mpts mem depth
10.1" 1024×600 touch display
Bode plot
4 Math channels
Max 2 Mpts FFT
Standard Decodes I2C, SPI, UART, CAN, LIN plus CAN FD and Flexray decode only
Webserver

Options
Power Analysis
External USB 25 MHz AWG
External 16ch MSO module

https://int.siglent.com/products-overview/sds1000hd/
https://siglentna.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds1000x-hd-digital-storage-oscilloscope/
https://www.siglenteu.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds1000x-hd-digital-storage-oscilloscope/

Siglent video


Dave does a teardown and quick look at operation.
Makes a few errors that study of the datasheet may have revealed the facts.

[thm_w]

IMO good sign that the LA and gen are external, hopefully means a lower price target than the 2000.

Comparison:


Translated datasheet attached.

[Martin72]

4 Math channels

Are they kidding me ?! 
SDS2000X+, SDS2000HD, SDS5000X and even the Lecroy(Siglent)Wavesurfer 3000Z/4000HD are having only 2...

[tautech]

Any guesses on cost ?

Traditionally the Chinese website costs have been way off converted to USD however I did some cost comparisons Chinese website vs USA website looking for current western models showing the same 9080 Yuan cost for 4ch SDS1104X HD and same price was found for the USD999 SDS2102X Plus !

However SDS2352X-E is listed on the China website for a little more, 9380 Yuan but in USD it's even cheaper at $839 !
My guess for SDS1104X HD is between $849 and 999 !

Where are the competition priced ?

IMO good sign that the LA and gen are external, hopefully means a lower price target than the 2000.

As you can see I've been wondering about that too yet the case is certainly large enough to have shoehorned those features into it yet with the existing product lines of SPL1016 and SAG2021I it makes sense to use them to help keep the scope costs down.
I only hope WiFi capability gets added as it's been a quite popular connectivity option for the X-E DSO's and with their newish clock feature also helps overcome the missing RTC and timestamp capability so many 1000 class DSO's lack.
But if we look closely at the datasheet images this new HD model does sport a clock and date just as all the other 10"+ display models do. 

[ojete]

The resolution of the screen is pretty low, no hdmi or video output of any kind, no wifi.
Having to use an external signal generator makes it more expensive, not cheaper.
I was waiting for Siglent to release the competition of the rigol dho1000 but this is not very tempting.
As with the dho1000 the only good thing are the 12 bit.

[Neutrion]

I am glad that Siglent didn't jump on the "black is cool" train, this is much friendlier, and I hope that the knobs won't have a sticky shitty timebomb rubber cover!

Also hope that the nice(and useful) colourful channel buttons will be  kept as there is no colour to see on the pictures. 

[Grandchuck]

Started by Keysight?  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/is-keysight-changing-colours-beige-to-black/

[Martin72]

The resolution of the screen is pretty low, no hdmi or video output of any kind, no wifi.

Scope is for measuring, not for watching movies.

[ojete]

The resolution of the screen is pretty low, no hdmi or video output of any kind, no wifi.

Scope is for measuring, not for watching movies.

What a surprise, I've always used the screen of the scope to watch films... and also to watch SpongeBob.
12 bits means 4096 levels and you are going to watch it in a screen with 600 horizontal pixels, but hey it's only 1k$.
I'd like to remember we are in 2023, in 1992 the display of my pc had exactly the same resolution.

[tautech]

The resolution of the screen is pretty low, no hdmi or video output of any kind, no wifi.
Having to use an external signal generator makes it more expensive, not cheaper.
I was waiting for Siglent to release the competition of the rigol dho1000 but this is not very tempting.
As with the dho1000 the only good thing are the 12 bit.

You're not into comparing datasheets are you ?
Maybe deeper study will reveal stuff you have missed.

[pope]

Looking nice.

[ojete]

The resolution of the screen is pretty low, no hdmi or video output of any kind, no wifi.
Having to use an external signal generator makes it more expensive, not cheaper.
I was waiting for Siglent to release the competition of the rigol dho1000 but this is not very tempting.
As with the dho1000 the only good thing are the 12 bit.

You're not into comparing datasheets are you ?
Maybe deeper study will reveal stuff you have missed.

I'm not comparing datasheets.
You can be kindly enough to tell me the stuff I have missed.
What prevents me of buying the rigol dho1000 is the lack of bode plot and the bugs it has. I'm not interested in digital inputs, only analog.

[tautech]

The resolution of the screen is pretty low, no hdmi or video output of any kind, no wifi.
Having to use an external signal generator makes it more expensive, not cheaper.
I was waiting for Siglent to release the competition of the rigol dho1000 but this is not very tempting.
As with the dho1000 the only good thing are the 12 bit.

You're not into comparing datasheets are you ?
Maybe deeper study will reveal stuff you have missed.

I'm not comparing datasheets.
You can be kindly enough to tell me the stuff I have missed.
What prevents me of buying the rigol dho1000 is the lack of bode plot and the bugs it has. I'm not interested in digital inputs, only analog.

1. You should be aware Rigol are now using their own ASIC > engage 2ch and = SDS1000X HD sampling rate.
2. Memory depth is much less, only 50 Mpts, 100 Mpts optional. SDS1000X HD = 100 Mpts/ch std.
3. Sampling rates, 50k vs 100k
4. Cost DHO1104 $ 1399 vs SDS1104X HD $1k ?
5. 1M vs 50/1M inputs.
6. MSO and AWG options for HD Siglent.

Unknown, Rigol has no probe sense while Siglent SDS1000X HD has the gold sense rings around the input BNC's, one would presume they will work.

[baldurn]

Looks great. All depends on the price however. And hackability of course 

But with more than two channels active it is actually worse than the SDS1000X-E ??

[Martin72]

I'd like to remember we are in 2023

Therefore we can discuss about 12 bit scopes for insane less money.
In february I had the rigol DHO4204 for 2.5 weeks here, the results you can read in the rigol thread.
The summary in short was, with the current software status (lots of bugs, lack of features in general) the rigol is not recommendable or can compete against the 2K+HD.
I like the new UI and the finer graphic details of the icons because of the higher display resolution, but this is not a gamechanger or an important decision point.
But back to the 1000XHD..
If it will be in the pricerange of the DHO1000, we will have the same situation like I described before.
Plus the obvious pros the siglent have against the DHO1000.
@Rob:
When it´s true the 1000X HD will have 4 math channels, I expect to have them too on my 2K+HD in one of the next updates, everything else will be a shame..

[Martin72]

Looks great. All depends on the price however. And hackability of course 

But with more than two channels active it is actually worse than the SDS1000X-E ??

What means "worse" ?, the samplerate?

[Fungus]

The resolution of the screen is pretty low, no hdmi or video output of any kind, no wifi.

Scope is for measuring, not for watching movies.

You're only saying that because it can't do it.

(Micsig can!)

[baldurn]

What means "worse" ?, the samplerate?

Yes, the sample rate is only half of the 8 bit scope with 3 or 4 channels active. I suppose it means they only have one shared ADC for all four channels.

[Martin72]

(Micsig can!)

Doesn´t surprise me in several ways...

[Martin72]

Yes, the sample rate is only half of the 8 bit scope with 3 or 4 channels active. I suppose it means they only have one shared ADC for all four channels.

You could be right, same on the rigol 1000.
It seems that´s the only way to make the scopes cheaper when using a 12 bit system.

[mawyatt]

Rigol rolled their own HS 12bit ADC chip and altho they have a large NRE chip development cost to recover, benefit from a lower recurring chip cost. While Siglent evidently is using a commercially available ADC, they will incur a higher recurring chip cost and these chips are likely the single most expensive item in the BOM.

So seems Siglent chose to use a single ADC and multiplex for each channel to meet their intended cost and market target. Also think the removal of the AWG and using a simpler internal digital interface helps using the external digital probe with active circuitry. The internal AWG in the SDS2000X+ types has limited capability and suspect most serious users utilize an external AWG anyway.

Best,

[Martin72]

To be honest,
Buying the rigol MSO5074 was the first time I came in contact with a inbuild awg - Never it comes to my mind having one in a scope.
For me it´s a "solution for very urgent situations", never a decision point or a stopper, when a scope doesn´t have it on board.

[Bud]

Looks awful. Is industry going back to tower style oscilloscopes ?

[Martin72]

What looks awful ?

[rf-loop]

Looks awful. Is industry going back to tower style oscilloscopes ?

Instead, least I hope even more vertical height for screen.
Usually also on working table there is more vertical room than horizontal. But there is also other important reasons.

Old times mostly usual oscilloscopes was with 2 channel and even zoom was stacked over main trace with only horizontal zoom.
Now we have least 4 analog channels and propability to use also 16 digital channels all together and splitted window zoom with normal horizontal zoom but also vertical zoom. And even more, serial decodings what also need room on display area so that time correlation with signals can keep.
Measurements instead we can display "where ever", now these use mostly also this very small vertical resources.

Sometimes it feels like everyone just imitates each other and thinking is avoided. Imitate each other even more, then it doesn't matter which manufacturer you get it from.

We need urgently and desperately more vertical height than ever before. When we now see these "wide screen" display in oscilloscopes I think sometimes that maybe thinking has become old-fashioned and thinking is no longer fashionable. Yes I understand it in entertainment displays but why in TM instruments.

One solution is use enough big TFT but also then turn it so that long side is vertical or example 5:4 format or 4:5. My prognose is that this time is coming - or not and then we suffer more and more with these low height wide screens.
When LeCroy did it first time, perhaps time was wrong and the difference felt strange and also others did not follow (least I do not know any one).
Today we do not need display what user can turn 90 degree.  It can be fixed so that mechanical construction is not this " fancy " LeCroy but we need more vertical room, desperately and urgently. Who do it now right way first time,  I jump right into his/her journey.