Author Topic: Siglent SDG7000A 350, 500 MHz and 1 GHz AWG's  (Read 14498 times)

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Offline tv84

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Re: Siglent SDG7000A 350, 500 MHz and 1 GHz AWG's
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2022, 08:42:43 pm »
SDG7032A - $11,389.00
SDG7052A - $13,989.00
SDG7102A - $18,389.00

https://www.logicbus.com/SDG7032A_p_31100.html

SDG7032A - €7,920+VAT
SDG7052A - €9,730+VAT
SDG7102A - €12,800+VAT

https://www.siglenteu.com/waveform-generators/sdg7000a-arbitrary-waveform-generator/
https://www.batronix.com/shop/siglent/SDG7000A.html
« Last Edit: March 02, 2022, 08:58:20 pm by tv84 »
 

Offline tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDG7000A 350, 500 MHz and 1 GHz AWG's
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2022, 10:44:13 pm »
Who needs a demo unit !  :P
Been playing with SDG7102A and a X Plus scope via their webservers in the US.  :)

Thanks to a certain undisclosed member that provided access to his network.  :-+
« Last Edit: March 02, 2022, 11:11:24 pm by tautech »
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Online jjoonathan

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Re: Siglent SDG7000A 350, 500 MHz and 1 GHz AWG's
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2022, 10:49:35 pm »
Nice!

I want access. I have a burning need to determine the root mean square deviation of a differential dick-and-balls signal.
 
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Offline tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDG7000A 350, 500 MHz and 1 GHz AWG's
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2022, 10:57:43 pm »
Nice!

I want access. I have a burning need to determine the root mean square deviation of a differential dick-and-balls signal.
LOL but seriously when doing this stuff with someone else's gear you really need know what you're doing as it would be so easy to blow 50 Ohm scope inputs with the 48V differential signals SDG7000A can provide.  :scared:
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Offline tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDG7000A 350, 500 MHz and 1 GHz AWG's
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2022, 01:03:14 am »
A couple more screenshots captured remotely from my gracious US host.  8)
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Offline tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDG7000A 350, 500 MHz and 1 GHz AWG's
« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2022, 08:54:15 am »
More nabbed remotely as a guest......
1 active channel in differential output mode.
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Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDG7000A 350, 500 MHz and 1 GHz AWG's
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2022, 11:34:53 am »
Some screenshots demonstrating the pulse function of the SDG7102A, captured on a 2 GHz SDS6204.

First a 4 ns wide pulse with ~1 ns edges.


SDG7102A_Pulse_10MHz_4ns_RT1ns

The minimum pulse width for 1 ns transitions is 1.785 ns.


SDG7102A_Pulse_10MHz_1785ps_RT1ns

In unspecified mode, we can get 1 ns pulse width and ~500 ps transitions.


SDG7102A_Pulse_10MHz_1ns_RT500ps
« Last Edit: March 03, 2022, 11:39:31 am by Performa01 »
 
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Online egonotto

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Re: Siglent SDG7000A 350, 500 MHz and 1 GHz AWG's
« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2022, 03:58:16 pm »
Who needs a demo unit !  :P
Been playing with SDG7102A and a X Plus scope via their webservers in the US.  :)

Hello,

in SDG6000X the arbitrary waveform occupied memory in the small (<83 MB) intern memory.
more than two 20 MS arbitrary waveforms have no room.

Can you please try this in SDG7102A. And how large is the intern memory.

Thanks.

Best regards
egonotto
PS.: Is it possible to get 48 Vpp output?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2022, 04:00:52 pm by egonotto »
 

Offline tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDG7000A 350, 500 MHz and 1 GHz AWG's
« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2022, 05:56:48 pm »
in SDG6000X the arbitrary waveform occupied memory in the small (<83 MB) intern memory.
more than two 20 MS arbitrary waveforms have no room.

Can you please try this in SDG7102A. And how large is the intern memory.
Specified as 512MB.
Quote
Is it possible to get 48 Vpp output ?
Currently don't have access, maybe Performa01 can display it.
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Offline rf-loop

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Re: Siglent SDG7000A 350, 500 MHz and 1 GHz AWG's
« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2022, 07:35:54 pm »

Quote
Is it possible to get 48 Vpp output ?

Simply answer afaik. No.



It is also very clear told in data sheet.

Single-ended
- Page 13, (note also note about load and then different max depending frequency)
- Page 4 (top of page image)
- Page 1  (The 24 Vpp analog output is superimposed with ± 12 Vdc offset to provide a maximum output range of ± 24 V (48 V).
(note load)

Differential  (page 13)
Amplitude flatness -0.3 +0.3 dB 100Ω load , 0.5 Vpp, compare to 1 MHz Sine
Output 20 m 2 Vpp Differential peak to peak, 100 Ω differential load, common offset = 0 V
Offset -1 +1 V Differential offset, 100 Ω differential load
Common mode -1 +1 V Load = HiZ

« Last Edit: March 03, 2022, 07:37:39 pm by rf-loop »
EV of course. Cars with smoke exhaust pipes - go to museum. In Finland quite all electric power is made using nuclear, wind, solar and water.

Wises must compel the mad barbarians to stop their crimes against humanity. Where have the (strong)wises gone?
 
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDG7000A 350, 500 MHz and 1 GHz AWG's
« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2022, 07:56:51 pm »
Who needs a demo unit !  :P
Been playing with SDG7102A and a X Plus scope via their webservers in the US.  :)

Hello,

in SDG6000X the arbitrary waveform occupied memory in the small (<83 MB) intern memory.
more than two 20 MS arbitrary waveforms have no room.

Can you please try this in SDG7102A. And how large is the intern memory.

Thanks.

Best regards
egonotto
PS.: Is it possible to get 48 Vpp output?


The 24 Vpp analog output is superimposed with ± 12 Vdc
offset to provide a maximum output range of ± 24 V (48
V).

P.S. I just saw RF was faster... ^-^

P.P.S  There is LAN mapping storage option. You can pull the files directly from network...
« Last Edit: March 03, 2022, 07:59:59 pm by 2N3055 »
 

Online egonotto

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Re: Siglent SDG7000A 350, 500 MHz and 1 GHz AWG's
« Reply #36 on: March 03, 2022, 08:20:51 pm »
Quote from: tautech
Specified as 512MB.

Hello,
 the intern memory has to store the arbitrary waveform. One arbitrary waveform can need till 1 GB.

I can not find info about the intern memory in the datasheet or in the User Manual.

Best regards
egonotto
 
« Last Edit: March 03, 2022, 08:22:43 pm by egonotto »
 

Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDG7000A 350, 500 MHz and 1 GHz AWG's
« Reply #37 on: March 03, 2022, 10:16:22 pm »
Internal Memory is about 3.5 GB.

Max. amplitude is 24 Vpp, max. offset is +/- 12 V, both figures valid for High Z load.

Attached screenshot demonstrates a 24 Vpp signal with -12 V offset from channel 1 of the SDG7102 into channel 1 of the SDS6204 and another 24 Vpp signal with +12 V offset from channel 2 of the SDG7102 into channel 2 of the SDS6204.
 
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDG7000A 350, 500 MHz and 1 GHz AWG's
« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2022, 08:14:19 pm »
Each channel has two outputs. Channels can function in single ended mode (when only + output is active) or diff mode (where output is differential between two BNCs).

When in single ended mode it can swing signal of +/-12V (24V p-p) with +/-12V offset. So output amplifiers have dynamic range of 48V from -24 to +24V. That is in High-Z. With 50 Ohm load, half of all.

But when set to differential mode each channel output is limited to 4V p-p with +/-2V common mode  (High Z), and 2V p-p with +/-1V common mode (100Ohm diff load).

What you see on that scope is that if you set two different channels to generate same waveform, set them to
maximum amplitude and invert channel 2 you can get 48V p-p between two different channels + outputs (with high Z load).

« Last Edit: March 04, 2022, 08:16:40 pm by 2N3055 »
 
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Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDG7000A 350, 500 MHz and 1 GHz AWG's
« Reply #39 on: March 04, 2022, 08:19:43 pm »
Internal Memory is about 3.5 GB.

Max. amplitude is 24 Vpp, max. offset is +/- 12 V, both figures valid for High Z load.

Attached screenshot demonstrates a 24 Vpp signal with -12 V offset from channel 1 of the SDG7102 into channel 1 of the SDS6204 and another 24 Vpp signal with +12 V offset from channel 2 of the SDG7102 into channel 2 of the SDS6204.
It's been pointed out to me correctly that in Differential output mode each channel very is different and can provide a 48V differential signal.
From the datasheet.

Sorry, I'm not sure what you're trying to say. The screenshot you've copied from the data sheet pretty much shows what I've shown before - with the only difference that I chose to use different waveforms (sine and rectangle) to make it clear that these are independent signals.

While these screenshots demonstrate the maximum output range of +/-24 V they do not show any signal exceeding 24 Vpp nor does the text next to that datasheet image say anything like that.

We could construct a 48 Vpp differential signal by phase locking the two single ended output channels with 180° phase shift, see attached screenshot.

Differential output mode of an individual channel is a whole different story and limited to 4 Vpp into High Z (2 Vpp into 100 ohms).

EDIT: oh dear! this old piece of rugged silicon (2N3055) had the exact same thoughts - just a tad faster!  :-DD
« Last Edit: March 04, 2022, 08:22:22 pm by Performa01 »
 
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Offline tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDG7000A 350, 500 MHz and 1 GHz AWG's
« Reply #40 on: March 04, 2022, 08:32:34 pm »
OK so the screenshots nabbed of a single channel differential output in
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg7000a-350-500-mhz-and-1-ghz-awgs-coming/msg4040836/#msg4040836
are correct then.
Will remove earlier misleading post.  :-[
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: Siglent SDG7000A 350, 500 MHz and 1 GHz AWG's
« Reply #41 on: March 04, 2022, 09:15:32 pm »
EDIT: oh dear! this old piece of rugged silicon (2N3055) had the exact same thoughts - just a tad faster!  :-DD

I'm epitaxial version... Not so robust but a bit faster...  :-DD
 
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Offline Plasmateur

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Re: Siglent SDG7000A 350, 500 MHz and 1 GHz AWG's
« Reply #42 on: March 13, 2022, 05:54:44 am »
so....anyone hack the SDG7032A yet. Asking for a friend.  :)
 

Offline ResistorRob

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Re: Siglent SDG7000A 350, 500 MHz and 1 GHz AWG's
« Reply #43 on: May 02, 2022, 02:11:25 am »
I didn't read the specs or any description. From the photo only I thought these might start at $2k to $3k. OMG 5 years ago I could never imagine a Siglent AWG costing $10 grand or more. lol
For my 10th Birthday I got a Fisher Price oscilloscope!
 
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Offline tv84

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Re: Siglent SDG7000A 350, 500 MHz and 1 GHz AWG's
« Reply #44 on: May 02, 2022, 01:51:03 pm »
so....anyone hack the SDG7032A yet. Asking for a friend.  :)

Tell your friend to buy one and then we'll check it out.
 
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Offline tautechTopic starter

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Re: Siglent SDG7000A 350, 500 MHz and 1 GHz AWG's
« Reply #45 on: April 17, 2023, 09:53:03 am »
New firmware for SDG7000A models.

Version: 1.1.1.29R8
84 MB
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/zip/firmware/Signal_generator/SDG7000A_V1.1.1.29R8_EN.zip

Release notes:
Fixed the bug of pulse output error under specific configuration
Added amplitude sweep function
Added the adjustment of channel skew
Supported multi-file operation in the file manager
Optimized the storage strategy of waveform data in sequence playback (The digital channel does not support sequence playback)
The PRBS rate up to 625Mbps
Fixed the bug of abnormal signal output during waveform switching
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Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDG7000A 350, 500 MHz and 1 GHz AWG's
« Reply #46 on: September 22, 2023, 12:48:31 pm »
Recently I got the idea to do some practical experiments to inspect the spectrum of a pulse train and to get a feeling how rise time and pulse width affect the bandwidth of the uniform level part of the spectrum. It was an obvious choice to use the pulse generator function in the SDG7102A for this. For all the following measurements, a pulse train with 10 kHz repetition rate has been used.

First screenshot shows a train of 5 ns wide pulses with 1 ns rise/fall time. As we can see, the spectral line amplitude starts decreasing at about 50 MHz:

SDS6204 Pro H12_FFT_Log_PR_10kHz_T1ns_W5ns

Second screenshot shows a train of 2 ns wide pulses with 1 ns rise/fall time. The spectral line amplitude stays nearly constant up to about 100 MHz:

SDS6204 Pro H12_FFT_Log_PR_10kHz_T1ns_W2ns

Third screenshot shows a train of 1 ns wide pulses with 500 ps rise/fall time. The spectral line amplitude stays nearly constant up to about 200 MHz:

SDS6204 Pro H12_FFT_Log_PR_10kHz_T500ps_W1ns


 
 
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Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDG7000A 350, 500 MHz and 1 GHz AWG's
« Reply #47 on: October 05, 2023, 10:46:47 am »
I have evaluated the “Wave Combine” feature in the SDG6052X and found that it is only useful at (very) low frequencies (Reply #460):

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg6000-series-awg_s/msg5093877/#msg5093877

Knowing the challenges in an AWG and the particular history of the SDG6000X, I thought it would be interesting how the SDG7102A would perform in this regard. This is not just a big brother of the SDG2000X series (like the SDG6000X actually is), but a very ambitious design right from the start.

For the SDG6052X, I have tested three different setups suitable for the full frequency range:

1.   Resistive power combiner with two attenuators in the source paths from the generators.
2.   Resistive power combiner with a single attenuator at its output.
3.   Internal “Wave Combine” function with external attenuator.

The first setup tests the SA rather than the generator, so there’s no use to repeat it once again. That leaves the tests 2 and 3.

The attenuators in this test are 20dB. The big advantage of this arrangement is that we need not touch the generator settings (except for frequency) and get the exact same output levels. As a consequence, the spectrum analyzer always sees the same signal levels of about -30 dBm, which is the standard test level for intermodulation distortion in most spectrum analyzers.

I’ve tested 4 MHz and 400 MHz in order to get comparable results to the SDG6000X test, but have added a 900 MHz test to scratch the limits of the SDG7000A. As always, we expect the generator output buffer performance to degrade at higher frequencies. The 2nd tone is just 10 kHz above the first one. An automatic Intermodulation measurement has been used to get the results quickly and accurately.

Let’s start with a single attenuator at the output of the power splitter. The isolation between the two generator outputs is only 6 dB, so any non-linearity will show up pretty clearly.

Not a problem at 4 MHz:

SDG7102A_Ext_1x20dB_4MHz_-4dBm

Still not bad at 400 MHz (the SDG605X was at -58 dBc here, whereas the SDG7102A manages respectable -80 dBc.

SDG7102A_Ext_1x20dB_400MHz_-4dBm

Even at 900 MHz, the intermodulation distortion is very reasonable at -78 dBc.

SDG7102A_Ext_1x20dB_900MHz_-4dBm

Now let’s have a look at the internal wave combine function, 4 MHz at first:

SDG7102A_Int_1x20dB_4MHz_-4dBm

Once again the distortion is already significantly higher than with the external splitter – and it is even worse than the SDG6052X: -80 dBc, yet this might be still good enough for many tasks.

The truth gets revealed if we try to use the “Wave Combine” at high frequencies – first at 400 MHz. The result is not grat at -61 dBc, but certainly a lot better than the -38 dBc we got with the SDG 6052X.

SDG7102A_Int_1x20dB_400MHz_-4dBm

Finally the result for 900 MHz. At -57 dBc the distortion is still 19 dB better as the SDG6000X at just 400 MHz:

SDG7102A_Int_1x20dB_900MHz_-4dBm


Verdict: Even though the SDG7000A is significantly better than the SDG6000X, the internal “Wave Combine” feature is not really suitable for characterizing the distortion performance of highly linear test objects at higher frequencies.
 
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Online gf

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Re: Siglent SDG7000A 350, 500 MHz and 1 GHz AWG's
« Reply #48 on: October 07, 2023, 04:13:33 pm »
Recently I got the idea to do some practical experiments to inspect the spectrum of a pulse train and to get a feeling how rise time and pulse width affect the bandwidth of the uniform level part of the spectrum. It was an obvious choice to use the pulse generator function in the SDG7102A for this. For all the following measurements, a pulse train with 10 kHz repetition rate has been used.

First screenshot shows a train of 5 ns wide pulses with 1 ns rise/fall time. As we can see, the spectral line amplitude starts decreasing at about 50 MHz:
Second screenshot shows a train of 2 ns wide pulses with 1 ns rise/fall time. The spectral line amplitude stays nearly constant up to about 100 MHz:
Third screenshot shows a train of 1 ns wide pulses with 500 ps rise/fall time. The spectral line amplitude stays nearly constant up to about 200 MHz:

I see that the measured pulse width and rise time in the third screenshot are more than 1ns/500ps.
Is the third screenshot really the same pulse as here?
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg7000a-350-500-mhz-and-1-ghz-awgs-coming/?action=dlattach;attach=1428967;image
[ The latter really measures approx. 1ns/500ps pulse width and rise time. ]

EDIT: Since this is the 1GHz model, I wonder if it is really impossible to generate a pulse train with a reasonably flat comb envelope is in the frequency domain up to 500...1000MHz?

If this is just a limitation of the pulse mode, would it possibly work in AWG or even AFG (DDS) mode?
The idea would be to transmit a [ 1 0 0 ... 0 ] waveform via AWG or AFG, choosing a waveform memory size and repetition rate so that the waveform memory contents can be sent 1:1 to the DAC at 2.5 GSa/s, without phase truncation or resampling. Ideally, after perfect reconstruction, this should result in a sinc pulse train having a comb spectrum with a flat envelope from 0...1.25GHz, and zero above 1.25GHz. In practice, I'd expect the envelope to reflect the frequency response of the generator's reconstruction filter, which will hopefully be fairly flat up to 1GHz (since this is the 1GHz model), and then roll off steeply. But who knows...

Btw, is my assumption correct that the "true" sample rate of the SDG7000 is only 2.5 GSa/s, while 5GSa/s is merely the oversampling rate of the DAC?
« Last Edit: October 08, 2023, 08:40:23 am by gf »
 

Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent SDG7000A 350, 500 MHz and 1 GHz AWG's
« Reply #49 on: October 08, 2023, 10:57:33 am »
Recently I got the idea to do some practical experiments to inspect the spectrum of a pulse train and to get a feeling how rise time and pulse width affect the bandwidth of the uniform level part of the spectrum. It was an obvious choice to use the pulse generator function in the SDG7102A for this. For all the following measurements, a pulse train with 10 kHz repetition rate has been used.

First screenshot shows a train of 5 ns wide pulses with 1 ns rise/fall time. As we can see, the spectral line amplitude starts decreasing at about 50 MHz:
Second screenshot shows a train of 2 ns wide pulses with 1 ns rise/fall time. The spectral line amplitude stays nearly constant up to about 100 MHz:
Third screenshot shows a train of 1 ns wide pulses with 500 ps rise/fall time. The spectral line amplitude stays nearly constant up to about 200 MHz:

I see that the measured pulse width and rise time in the third screenshot are more than 1ns/500ps.
Is the third screenshot really the same pulse as here?
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg7000a-350-500-mhz-and-1-ghz-awgs-coming/?action=dlattach;attach=1428967;image
[ The latter really measures approx. 1ns/500ps pulse width and rise time. ]
Have you compared the conditions?

The reference measurement you're referring to was a 600 mVpp pulse measured at 2 ns/div using 10 GSa/s (ESR).
The pulse train in my last post was 3 Vpp and has been captured at 200 µs/div using 5 GSa/s.

Siglent scopes have deep measurements, so we get numbers that are reasonably close to the truth even at slow time bases, but of course resolution and also accuracy are finally limited by the sample rate. Only at very short time bases, like 10 ns/div and below (without ESR) and 5 ns/div and below (with ESR), additional interpolation is used to increase time resolution.

But the most important reason is the limited slew rate of the generator output. It can deliver a clean sine wave up to 1 GHz at 3 Vpp amplitude max., but it cannot deliver 500 ps risetime pulses at that amplitude level. This was an oversight on my part and so I’ve repeated the old measurement with comparable parameters and got quite similar results, see first screenshot.

SDS6204_Pulse_1MHz_W1ns_RT500ps

EDIT: Since this is the 1GHz model, I wonder if it is really impossible to generate a pulse train with a reasonably flat comb envelope is in the frequency domain up to 500...1000MHz?
It’s the slew rate limit of the output amplifiers. 500 ps rise time is certainly a bit of a challenge for a linear power amplifier, don’t you think?

Btw, is my assumption correct that the "true" sample rate of the SDG7000 is only 2.5 GSa/s, while 5GSa/s is merely the oversampling rate of the DAC?
I’m not the designer of  that generator, but as far as I can tell, it has 2.5 GSa/s for the arbitrary waveforms and this is most likely the true sample rate, whereas the 5 GSa/s probably are some interpolation within the DAC.

Anyway, I’ve repeated the pulse train experiment at 1 MHz repetition rate and low 600 mVpp amplitude and it actually yields better results, see 2nd screenshot.

SDS6204_Train_1MHz_W1ns_RT500ps

We still don’t get 612.5 MHz, but -3 dB at 378 MHz is still significantly better than the first attempt at 3 Vpp amplitude.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2023, 09:29:05 am by Performa01 »
 
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