Author Topic: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators (Read 118151 times)

rf-loop · « **Reply #25 on:** September 22, 2017, 01:43:44 pm »

Here examples with same settings what are used in this Rigol DG1000Z thread. After I look this I made tiny test with Siglent again with same setup. (exept that used scope is far better)

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dg1032z-can-it-be-upgraded-to-dg1062z-or-is-hw-different/msg1306309/#msg1306309

Examples
15MHz, 25MHz (as with Rigol)
After then 30MHz and last 60MHz.
Square wave, 50ohm Tektronix feed thru terminator in scope input. Scope used here SDS1202X-E

As can see SDG1000X Square wave is in its own class compared to Riglol.

Even with 60MHz there can still see some flat top and nothing like Rigol with 25MHz.

EDIT: for more easy compoare I add these Rigol images also here, 15MHz and 25MHz.

rf-loop · « **Reply #26 on:** September 24, 2017, 10:46:38 am »

In previous msg we can see how this generator Square wave works up to 60MHz.
Square wave is produced with new special circuits and this rise and fall time is available only with square function. This is also far better than Rigol DS1000Z series but also better than Siglent SDG2000X series.

But then there is some factory limits in SDG1000X and here I have done some experimental work for look if these limits are written in stone or...

Of course factory limits are with reasons. Example level limits related to frequency need stay untouched for avoid some components over stress.

Here some examples about something. (these are not abs max stretched limits but with these limits not yet so much bad effects in signals quality etc.)

1. Factory limit for triangle wave is 500kHz.
There can see how it works with 2MHz and with 5MHz. (FW limit set for 5MHz)
This is just how much we accept turn point rounding (as can see in 50% symmetry image)
Other image is with 0% symmetry setting what give maximal corner ringing (and rise time) using 500kHz, 2MHz and 5MHz.

2. Factory limits for Pulse are 12.5MHz max freq, minimum width 32.6ns and minimum rise/fall time 16.8ns.
In these images can see rise/fall limits are now 11.8ns and then can rise max freq limits for 15MHz
Also limits can stretch more but not without adverse effects due to signal filters and fact that this is 150MSa/s machine.

3. Factory limit is max 20kHz from internal source.
Here max is set for max 50kHz. In image 50% AM with 50kHz and carrier around 51MHz. (+3dBm @50?)

4. Factory limit for Arb is 6MHz
Here limit is set for 10MHz. Small drop in peaks level. (think peaks freq)

BillB · « **Reply #27 on:** March 03, 2018, 05:13:30 pm »

Thanks for the links, rf-loop! I'm thinking that the SDG1000X firmware layout must be similar to the SDG2000X and that some of the features they made available to their units might be available for ours. I think I'll poke around...

BillB · « **Reply #28 on:** March 07, 2018, 10:30:12 pm »

Quote from: BillB on March 03, 2018, 05:13:30 pm

I'm thinking that the SDG1000X firmware layout must be similar to the SDG2000X and that some of the features they made available to their units might be available for ours. I think I'll poke around...

Well, After doing some poking around and seeing what some have done with the SDG2000X AWGs, I managed to upgrade my SDG1032X to an SDG1062X! It seems most of the Siglent devices (as I guess all these types of devices nowadays) are using embedded Linux on an ARM micro, and once you have root access it's relatively easy to make configuration modifications.

I've attached a couple of screenshots showing the 1032's new and improved 60MHz output. Another screenshot shows the system info screen with the serial number intact, but with a better model number :-)

I've also attached a text document that is an annotated telnet session with the device. If you are comfortable with Linux, it's trivial. If not, the document walks you through the modification process, step-by-step. You should still be comfortable with remote consoles, telnet, and LAN IP stuff.

I must say I'm really impressed with all the Siglent gear I have, and with the ability to hack err... modify them, there is really a lot of value for the money.

Kuba_eM · « **Reply #29 on:** March 09, 2018, 11:44:02 am »

Dear BillB, the file (FW22_eevblog version for the SDG1032X) you mention in the manual is no longer available for download. Could you put it back on some generally available server?

BillB · « **Reply #30 on:** March 09, 2018, 01:07:58 pm »

Quote from: Kuba_eM on March 09, 2018, 11:44:02 am

Dear BillB, the file (FW22_eevblog version for the SDG1032X) you mention in the manual is no longer available for download. Could you put it back on some generally available server?

Try looking here:

https://nofile.io/f/Vg5FbxReRVC/SDG1000X_V100R001B01D01P22_eevblog.zip

The password should be reeally easy to guess.

Kuba_eM · « **Reply #31 on:** March 09, 2018, 03:47:58 pm »

Thank you, BillB
"The password should be reeally easy to guess"

rf-loop · « **Reply #32 on:** March 10, 2018, 07:11:59 pm »

In some my prevous msg can see some scope images about changes.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/msg1307521/#msg1307521
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/msg1309013/#msg1309013

Here images from SDG1000X screen

Ramp, factory limit 500kHz, here rised to 5MHz. (of course corners are rounded with 5MHz)
Arb is limited to 6MHz, here 10MHz
Some internal modulations are limited to 20kHz by factory, here 50kHz
Sweep time max is 500s from factory, Here rised to 100ks (bit over one day)
Pulse rise and fall times from factory 16.8ns, here 11.8ns
These some limits here are not maximally changed "up to" values. I have not tested what are max values and not even these my values for test carefully all things how they change signal quality when SDG is used outside of factory limits.
Then output max level limit (this was only experimental test if it can modify at all or not). From factory it is 0-10MHz max 20Vpp and over 10MHz 10Vpp. Here changed so that 0-12MHz is 20Vpp (Do not change these factory level limits! (exept if you really KNOW - here know is not synonym for believe - you can do it in your individual special use so that it can not make damage or shorten lifetime) It may permanently damage output amplifiers. All understand who is fully responsible if your output amplifiers etc fails and it happend easy when go out from factory limits.

tautech · « **Reply #33 on:** March 10, 2018, 07:48:26 pm »

Quote from: rf-loop on March 10, 2018, 07:11:59 pm

Here images from SDG1000X screen

rf-loop · « **Reply #34 on:** March 11, 2018, 10:25:01 am »

Rigol DG1032Z 15MHz Square, 1Vpp 50 ohm, Rigol modified DS1000Z oscilloscope and 50 ohm termination.
Rigol image source: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dg1032z-can-it-be-upgraded-to-dg1062z-or-is-hw-different/msg1306309/#msg1306309

Siglent SDG1032X, 15MHz Square, 1Vpp 50 ohm, Siglent SDS1202X-E oscilloscope and 50 ohm termination.

Rigol DG1032Z 25MHz Square, 1Vpp 50 ohm, Rigol modified DS1000Z oscilloscope and 50 ohm termination.
Rigol image source: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dg1032z-can-it-be-upgraded-to-dg1062z-or-is-hw-different/msg1306309/#msg1306309

Siglent SDG1032X, 25MHz Square, 1Vpp 50 ohm, Siglent SDS1202X-E oscilloscope and 50 ohm termination.

And Siglent SDG1032Xm62X 60MHz

janekivi · « **Reply #35 on:** March 11, 2018, 11:02:22 am »

Quote from: Kuba_eM on March 09, 2018, 03:47:58 pm

Thank you, BillB
"The password should be reeally easy to guess"

For my files, there is one rule - if you won't be able to guess the password - here,
being in this forum user, You are not qualified to hack Your equipment. : )

tautech · « **Reply #36 on:** July 26, 2018, 10:43:57 am »

New firmware for SDG1000X series.

Version 1.01.01.30.R1
12.8 MB
https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/6889/

Changelog
1. Supported Up followed by Down Sweep mode in Linear sweep (no change for Log sweep).
2. Changed the amplitude strategy of AM modulation: The carrier stays fixed at the amplitude, regardless of the modulation setting.
3. Increased the upper limit of Harmonics number from 10 to 16.
4. Added an icon to indicate clock source is internal or external.
5. Supported specifying Arb type by remote control when the modulating waveform is Arb.
6. Supported changing the unit of amplitude without any amplitude change by long pressing the "Amplitude" softkey.
7. Added "User" option under "PowerOn Setting".
8. Added "Normal" as a new UI color style.
9. Added memory space information in Store/Recall UI.
10. Added ARB waveform name to display, allowing user to know which Arb waveform is loaded.
11. Optimized response of the universal knob.
12. Fixed several bugs:
a) Burst cycles not corrected when it is set to a value ≥65536. [2017/12/25-1116387]
b) In some sweep case the start and stop frequencies deviate from the set values.

rf-loop · « **Reply #37 on:** September 18, 2018, 07:22:42 am »

Quote from: tautech on July 26, 2018, 10:43:57 am

New firmware for SDG1000X series.

Version 1.01.01.30.R1
12.8 MB
https://www.siglentamerica.com/download/6889/

Changelog
1. Supported Up followed by Down Sweep mode in Linear sweep (no change for Log sweep).
2. Changed the amplitude strategy of AM modulation: The carrier stays fixed at the amplitude, regardless of the modulation setting.
3. Increased the upper limit of Harmonics number from 10 to 16.
4. Added an icon to indicate clock source is internal or external.
5. Supported specifying Arb type by remote control when the modulating waveform is Arb.
6. Supported changing the unit of amplitude without any amplitude change by long pressing the "Amplitude" softkey.
7. Added "User" option under "PowerOn Setting".
8. Added "Normal" as a new UI color style.
9. Added memory space information in Store/Recall UI.
10. Added ARB waveform name to display, allowing user to know which Arb waveform is loaded.
11. Optimized response of the universal knob.
12. Fixed several bugs:
a) Burst cycles not corrected when it is set to a value ≥65536. [2017/12/25-1116387]
b) In some sweep case the start and stop frequencies deviate from the set values.

Quote

2. Changed the amplitude strategy of AM modulation: The carrier stays fixed at the amplitude, regardless of the modulation setting.

This was very very good change. After long time finally tested this using SA and it really works. Not it is nice to use for some radio tuning works and works similar with normal RF generators.
I have long missed this feature in all Siglent SDG.

Note: now also (some) users need be careful. If he set amplitude, say example 1Vpp. And he now "believe" that all what is coming out do not exceed 1Vpp. This is not anymore true when user turns AM modulation on, of course peak value depends mod depth and is double if mode depth is 100%. Carrier stay now same level but modulated signal time domain amplitude depends now AM modulation depth.
Of course, learning helps. It is very important to understand how devices work and the characteristics of different signals also in theory.

Quote

6. Supported changing the unit of amplitude without any amplitude change by long pressing the "Amplitude" softkey.

Many times useful in practice. No need calculate or conversion table.
Just set -7.65dBm and later if want look or set it using Vrms or Vpeak just bit longer 1second push "amplitude" key for switch between units. Previously it was not possible.

And some other useful changes.

But now, old _eevblog.ads version is .22.
It is very important to update FW to more new version. One very important thing is that .22 version do not support Siglent USB recovery at all if "bad happen". First FW version it is supported is 22R5 (but there was not so many other things. So not useful to "eevblog" it.
Now this 33R1 have so much advantages and fixes that perhaps it is better if we have eevblog for it.
Of course if do using eevblog 22 it can update to official 33R1
But if want or have done also other modifications (some useful mods with some functions limits) every update to official version overwrite these some nice things (exept model) what are possible with eevblog version...

So let's hope some day...
.........if well known magician or Santa Claus is listening.

jleg · « **Reply #38 on:** September 18, 2018, 08:56:50 am »

Quote from: rf-loop on September 18, 2018, 07:22:42 am

Now this 33R1 have so much advantages and fixes that perhaps it is better if we have eevblog for it.
Of course if do using eevblog 22 it can update to official 33R1
But if want or have done also other modifications (some useful mods with some functions limits) every update to official version overwrite these some nice things (exept model) what are possible with eevblog version...

I have difficulties to understand the above - do you say updating from 22R5 to 30R1 "destroys" the "little inofficial upgrade" from SDG1032X to SDG1062X?

rf-loop · « **Reply #39 on:** September 18, 2018, 09:16:26 am »

Quote from: jleg on September 18, 2018, 08:56:50 am

Quote from: rf-loop on September 18, 2018, 07:22:42 am
Now this 33R1 have so much advantages and fixes that perhaps it is better if we have eevblog for it.
Of course if do using eevblog 22 it can update to official 33R1
But if want or have done also other modifications (some useful mods with some functions limits) every update to official version overwrite these some nice things (exept model) what are possible with eevblog version...

I have difficulties to understand the above - do you say updating from 22R5 to 30R1 "destroys" the "little inofficial upgrade" from SDG1032X to SDG1062X?

Answer to your question: I did not say anything like this you ask. Where from you get this.

If you did not understand what I said (it tells that you have not done these other things) then do not worry at all. It does not affect or mean anything in your case.

jleg · « **Reply #40 on:** September 18, 2018, 01:36:35 pm »

Quote from: rf-loop on September 18, 2018, 09:16:26 am

Answer to your question: I did not say anything like this you ask. Where from you get this.

If you talk about "eevblog 22" you probably mean user @janekivi's version of firmware 22, which (re-)enables telnet. And probably the most popular "modification" relates to the file NSP_system_info.xml.
Since you talk about "...update to official version overwrite these some nice things..." that imo could lead a reader to think you're talking about the mod of the model (32X->62X)...

Anyway, for me this looks like - it is still unknown if upgrading to 30R1 (imo there is no "33R1" so far, btw) will revert the model patch, and it is also not yet clear if it would be possible to revert back to @janekivi's version 22 in case re-enabling telnet is necessary.

Quote from: rf-loop

If you did not understand what I said (it tells that you have not done these other things) then do not worry at all. It does not affect or mean anything in your case.

that's probably more a problem of "language", than a "technical aspect", i guess...

tv84 · « **Reply #41 on:** September 18, 2018, 01:53:35 pm »

Quote from: jleg on September 18, 2018, 01:36:35 pm

If you talk about "eevblog 22" you probably mean user @janekivi's version of firmware 22, which (re-)enables telnet. And probably the most popular "modification" relates to the file NSP_system_info.xml.
Since you talk about "...update to official version overwrite these some nice things..." that imo could lead a reader to think you're talking about the mod of the model (32X->62X)...

The level of modifications that each user in this forum does to his equipments varies. That's the reason of the misunderstanding.

Check this msg to see what I mean:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/msg1448961/#msg1448961

A new FW with just a "release" level modification should not disable the ability to roll back to previous versions.

The BW mod will continue valid, as usual. Regarding the root pwd, let's wait for janekivi or me.... if I find the time.

jleg · « **Reply #42 on:** September 18, 2018, 02:24:43 pm »

Quote from: tv84 on September 18, 2018, 01:53:35 pm

The level of modifications that each user in this forum does to his equipments varies. That's the reason of the misunderstanding.

Check this msg to see what I mean:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sdg1000x-waveform-generators/msg1448961/#msg1448961

Thx, I in fact was not aware of those "factory limit" modifications...

Quote

A new FW with just a "release" level modification should not disable the ability to roll back to previous versions.

The BW mod will continue valid, as usual. Regarding the root pwd, let's wait for janekivi or me.... if I find the time.

janekivi · « **Reply #43 on:** September 18, 2018, 07:31:00 pm »

I don't have it but I can make this for you:
(as usual made with notepad and there is 5 changes for replace the root password)

SDG1000X_30R1_eevblog.zip

May be this is working?

rf-loop · « **Reply #44 on:** September 24, 2018, 05:47:35 am »

removed obsolete and partially danger disinformation due to more new FW's with new features.

janekivi · « **Reply #45 on:** September 24, 2018, 05:26:28 pm »

So they can't use our ideas without our password.

But my idea was not to have detailed guides.
Hacking is more for those who are able to repair their equipment
if something goes wrong...

tv84 · « **Reply #46 on:** October 04, 2018, 09:08:04 pm »

Telnet without changing root password...

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ads-firmware-file-format/msg1870091/#msg1870091

nihtila · « **Reply #47 on:** November 22, 2018, 09:34:50 am »

As these generators have a 'special' circuit for generating square wave (which is a great feature!), are there any limitations of features on the square wave output? What I mean, can you still add all modulations on square wave the same way as on sine wave?

Tester here in the UK have 10% discount on Siglent kit this Black Friday (now).

tautech · « **Reply #48 on:** November 23, 2018, 07:12:15 am »

Quote from: nihtila on November 22, 2018, 09:34:50 am

As these generators have a 'special' circuit for generating square wave (which is a great feature!), are there any limitations of features on the square wave output? What I mean, can you still add all modulations on square wave the same way as on sine wave?

Tester here in the UK have 10% discount on Siglent kit this Black Friday (now).

From the datasheet:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2017/10/SDG1000X_DataSheet_DS0201X_E01E.pdf

Modulation P 9/12
Carrier Sine, Square, Ramp, Arb for most types....but check the full spec.

rf-loop · « **Reply #49 on:** November 23, 2018, 08:55:10 am »

Quote from: nihtila on November 22, 2018, 09:34:50 am

As these generators have a 'special' circuit for generating square wave (which is a great feature!), are there any limitations of features on the square wave output? What I mean, can you still add all modulations on square wave the same way as on sine wave?

Tester here in the UK have 10% discount on Siglent kit this Black Friday (now).

Square wave modulations: (square but of course also rectangle (other than 50% duty) in this mode)
AM, DSB-AM, FM, PM, FSK, ASK, PSK
PWM is not possible.

Sine wave modulations just as Square wave modulations.
And also, when Sinewave AM is in use (new FW versions): Level is carrier level! Modulation on/off do not affect carrier level and also carrier level is independent of modulation depth. And this is very nice for example working with RF things like radios etc. AM modulated signal level works as normal RF-generator.

Ramp modulations same as square.

Pulse wave modulations
Only PWM.

Arb modulations
same as square.


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Author Topic: Siglent SDG1000X Waveform Generators (Read 118151 times)

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