Siglent Scopes

[Griffin]

Hi Every1

I am looking at buying a my first oscilloscope and so far in terms of price I can afford just about the price of an Rigol DS1052E or a Siglent SDS1072CML.

I do not know Siglent and only know Rigol from Dave's videos so does anyone use a Siglent and how are they?
Do you have any other suggestions for a first scope in the $200-$350 price range?

Thanks

[Hydrawerk]

Siglent seems to be similar to Rigol. They might me OK. Siglents have separate control knobs for every channel. One thing is quite sure. Siglent oscilloscopes are also sold under the LeCroy brand... It is funny. The instruments look very similar. http://youtu.be/JaIuSnODbOM Well, in the video, there is a very little difference in internal circuitry...

[EEVblog]

Only briefly played with them myself, and they seem decent for the price.
Charles at TrioSmartCal raves about them, he gets a tad excited by bang-per-buck 


Dave.

[srt8-in-largo]

I just bought a Siglent SDS1304CFL for a screaming deal on eBay. Never owned one before and haven't received this one yet so I can't speak yet to build quality, performance, etc.

Other brands to consider Aktakom, Atten, Instek, Hameg, Hantek, Owon, Uni-Trend.

[Bored@Work]

Other brands to consider Aktakom, Atten, Instek, Hameg, Hantek, Owon, Uni-Trend.

Aktakom: Rebadges whatever they can get
Atten: Mothership of Siglent
Instek: A notch above the cheap ones when it comes to quality
Hameg: Five notches above the cheap ones, also in price
Hantek: Hackable, lots of hw and sw details known
Owon: Nothing special
Uni-T: Not much known about their oscilloscopes, except unclear specs

[Hydrawerk]

Hameg: Even more expensive than Agilent. Made in Czech Republic, (that is good! I love my country.) Hameg has only 2500 waveforms per second. Not good for such an expensive scope.  Buy Hameg, If you want a small but still high quality oscilloscope, and if 2500 wfrms/s is good for you. Finally, I would not recommend him for hobbyists. 
Hantek: In fact, it is Tekway. Just compare the designs... http://www.silcon.cz/index.php?route=product/category&path=20_63
Tekway is a strange company, they did no progress since 2009. They even do not produce anything else that this series of scopes...
http://www.tekway.net/list.asp?boardid=20&sess=5

[tinhead]

Hantek: In fact, it is Tekway. Just compare the designs... http://www.silcon.cz/index.php?route=product/category&path=20_63
Tekway is a strange company, they did no progress since 2009. They even do not produce anything else that this series of scopes...
http://www.tekway.net/list.asp?boardid=20&sess=5

Tekway belongs to www.synway.net, they are "small company" within a bigger one (as i remember few people had an idea, asked manager to realize their idea and
that's how Tekway was born). And indeed there is not much progress on their website. Since they released the DST1000B series (end of 2009) they updated only PCB revisions and firmware.
However they do have new model, an MSO, i have on my desk right now.

Tekway's "DSO 2.0" design (there was DSO 1.0, designed 2008 and sold in a small values up to end 2009, a TDS2000 clone with 2.5k point memory, i have one here as well)
has been however licensed* by Hantek, they added to it 2Mpoint option (BM/BMV models), they made a smaller version with smaller display (5.6" instead of 7") for Hantek Handhelds (B/BV Handhelds) and even Handheld with isolated channels (?) - the "S" model. Hantek showed as well 4 channel version on HK Fair, with AWG etc. (yeah, the Agilent syndrom).

*licensing in China is sometimes really complex, as i udnerstood the Tekway (Synway) shareholders are as well Hantek shareholders, so Tekway and Hantek have since some time to work together, they merged the dev team to develop. On the other side they have to COMPETE, funny heh.

I've posted some details i heard in the Tekway/Hantek thread

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/hantek-tekway-dso-hack-get-200mhz-bw-for-free/

, there was so many changes and "news", "thoughts" ans speculations about both companies

[Hydrawerk]

There are some bad news about Siglent / Atten. Unfortunately, it's not clear, which model it is. http://www.scopejunction.com/author.asp?section_id=1788&doc_id=252398&piddl_msgpage=2#msgs
http://www.scopejunction.com/author.asp?section_id=1788&doc_id=253013

[casper.bang]

I am looking at buying a my first oscilloscope and so far in terms of price I can afford just about the price of an Rigol DS1052E or a Siglent SDS1072CML.

That price range seems hard to get a clear picture of and somewhat neglected now everyone is rounding up to Rigol's DS2000 serie. The Siglent SDS1072CML is also particular interesting to me, because it really does seem to be a beefed up Rigol DS1052E - which would be a device I could certainly cut my teeth on while diving deeper into electronics. Unfortunately, the Owon SDS7102V is easier to source for me in Europe, but I am concerned about it's UX. Would love this thread to grow with more feedback.

[ACvolts]

There are some bad news about Siglent / Atten. Unfortunately, it's not clear, which model it is. http://www.scopejunction.com/author.asp?section_id=1788&doc_id=252398&piddl_msgpage=2#msgs
http://www.scopejunction.com/author.asp?section_id=1788&doc_id=253013

The scope really looks like both but..  The Atten doesn't have the issues in Firmware.
I did alot of reading and I forget where in EEVblog Forum it's at.  Um.. just do a search
on Atten and you should find the Oscope conversations.  Here is a link to a test
with the Atten 100mhz scope, after a firmware upgrade things got better for the scope
in the test...
http://www.cube.co.za/%7Etva/workbench/atten-ads1102cml/atten-ads-1102cml-review.xhtml

ACvolts

[rf-loop]

These all tests and reviews are old.  Perhaps compared just different FW/HW.

But if someone say that Atten do NOT have some FW issue and Siglent have.. this is just this bullshit. Also in many "reviews" there is very small amount of real lab tests with documents. Some seasick videos and quick adjusments and signals so that who know these exactly what there happend.

Atten do not have factory for make these DSO's and Atten do not FW's for these.
Backround is so that in history Siglent have been Atten sidecar. And both have same business father.
Not all Atten things made by Siglent but these oscilloscope models are designed and made by Siglent as Atten have ordered them. As far as I know Atten do many things and also they rebrand many things. Atten do not make FW's for these scopes. But there is boot image and logo what Atten want.  You can look example Atten signal generator junk and Atten power supplies. Looks very different as Siglent, who and where have made these Atten many things - who knows.

If you buy more, you can buy these with your logo and boot image.

[ACvolts]

These all tests and reviews are old.  Perhaps compared just different FW/HW.

But if someone say that Atten do NOT have some FW issue and Siglent have.. this is just this bullshit. Also in many "reviews" there is very small amount of real lab tests with documents. Some seasick videos and quick adjusments and signals so that who know these exactly what there happend.

Atten do not have factory for make these DSO's and Atten do not FW's for these.
Backround is so that in history Siglent have been Atten sidecar. And both have same business father.
Not all Atten things made by Siglent but these oscilloscope models are designed and made by Siglent as Atten have ordered them. As far as I know Atten do many things and also they rebrand many things. Atten do not make FW's for these scopes. But there is boot image and logo what Atten want.  You can look example Atten signal generator junk and Atten power supplies. Looks very different as Siglent, who and where have made these Atten many things - who knows.

If you buy more, you can buy these with your logo and boot image.

Well, WHAT we do know and see that Atten recently updated the Firmware, and
even an older Firmware  has updated their problems.  As far as Siglent I don't
say they haven't fixed their problems but you can't find a real test to probe and
prove that!  So, I'm not saying that Siglent hasn't fixed issues but we go on what
we know here.  Being a Scientist, we can't just make leaps of faith.
However, Siglent has a plus with a website that does make updates available to
their firmware, Atten does not.  Being fair, where are all the Siglent owners and
intuitive tests to let us see new results with firmware upgrades?

Other than that I really don't want to put down Siglent at all.  So I update my
feelings about Siglent here and it's good to be product savvy.

ACvolts

[Deckert]

I am looking at buying a my first oscilloscope and so far in terms of price I can afford just about the price of an Rigol DS1052E or a Siglent SDS1072CML.

I was in a position to compare the Rigol DS1052E and the Siglent SDS/Atten ADS 1102CML scopes a while back and the larger screen swayed my to the Siglent/Atten. You can search for the review I did of the Atten elsewhere on this forum.

When you buy, make sure that you can confirm the hardware version is new and up-to-date. The supplier I got mine from shipped a very old one they had in stock which means I cannot upgrade the firmware past a certain point. Make sure you get at least v10-x-3.3 or newer hardware.

If you can get the Siglent for the same price as the Rigol, I would recommend the Siglent. Are you using a local distributor in South Africa?

--deckert

[rf-loop]

Here tiny test with Siglent SDS1072CML
FW5.xxx  HW11-xxx 

Signal: HP8644B  50ohm coaxial and Tek feed thru 50ohm in scope end.
Slow linear sweep  from 1MHz to around 240MHz
one time div is 15MHz  (v. centerline 105MHz)
acquire mode of course peak.

as can see -3dB is somewhere around 115-120MHz! (this is 70MHz model)

next image.

Same oscilloscope and now Siglent P470 probe (10x)
Signal generator out terminated using Tek feed thru terminator, then probe adapter (make GND connection near probe tip)
(here I forget change oscilloscope probe mult to 10x. Yes, signal gen level is here high becouse before I measure 1x response (no idea) and then change probe 10x and just rise generator for 6div)

Not bad result (price)
sweep scale same and v.center line 105MHz (sweep starts after two dif from left.)

And yes, it is right, first is direct cable and next image is with probe.

And some picture just for fun:
E.T. with 400MHz and there is more than 10minute infinite persistence on.
No averaging.
With real time mode, can not see really anything.
Of course this is far over this scope limits, just for fun and look how it trig and for find limits (it can go some amount more up and still trig.. around 450MHz game over..

[rf-loop]

Here also risetime. (SDS1072CML  (PCB version 02))
Signal from HP8161A opt. 020 pulse generator with 50ohm cable and Tektronix feed thru terminator.
(HP gen risetime is specified <1.3ns and measured true is around 1ns (output BNC)


In dual timebase ALT mode Equal Time mode is not used.
 
But in this mode normal acquire give same result (of course)
Long memory 2M or 1+1M can not use with Equal time.
Equal time give some amount more BW for high frequencies  and also for captured risetime.
Of course ET can use only for continuous "repetitive" signals.

1. normal mode.
2. normal mode with peristence on for show corner wobbling (one form of aliasing) and also trig jitter. This is also important thing becouse this kind of risetime signal include lot of harmonics.
3. equal time.
4. dual timebase  (CH1  HP pulse, CH2 slow ramp) 

(in 2 channel use and of course then also dual timebase there is 500MSa/s max so CH1 have now 500MSa/s and CH2 have 250MSa/s becouse 1us/div speed)
With 500MSa/s risetime measuremet variation is more and with sinx/x it also looks like littlebit affect to risetime result)

[Hydrawerk]

These Siglents have at least much better front panel than Rigol DS1000. Rigol even doesn't have the Single button.

[tinhead]

Here  ... SDS1072CML

thanks for these measurments, ET looks really good!

[ACvolts]

Here also risetime. (SDS1072CML  (PCB version 02))
Signal from HP8161A opt. 020 pulse generator with 50ohm cable and Tektronix feed thru terminator.
(HP gen risetime is specified <1.3ns and measured true is around 1ns (output BNC)


In dual timebase ALT mode Equal Time mode is not used.
 
But in this mode normal acquire give same result (of course)
Long memory 2M or 1+1M can not use with Equal time.
Equal time give some amount more BW for high frequencies  and also for captured risetime.
Of course ET can use only for continuous "repetitive" signals.

1. normal mode.
2. normal mode with peristence on for show corner wobbling (one form of aliasing) and also trig jitter. This is also important thing becouse this kind of risetime signal include lot of harmonics.
3. equal time.
4. dual timebase  (CH1  HP pulse, CH2 slow ramp) 

(in 2 channel use and of course then also dual timebase there is 500MSa/s max so CH1 have now 500MSa/s and CH2 have 250MSa/s becouse 1us/div speed)
With 500MSa/s risetime measuremet variation is more and with sinx/x it also looks like littlebit affect to risetime result)

I'm so glad to see some SiglentAtten measurements!  Thanks guys
because it really helps in support.

[rf-loop]

Video trigger (PAL/SECAM)
Tested with SDS1102CML (quite similar as SDS1072CML)
In new HW/FW it looks better than before.

It looks like video trigger stability is acceptable.
Specially if look images 3,4 and 5.
Note that there is persistence on (for show stability)
Image 5 was nearly 10 minutes capturing.

[rf-loop]

There is new FW version for SIGLENT  SDS1072CML, SDS1102CML, SDS1072CNL, SDS1102CNL.

New version can find here - 5.01.02.22

It is not yet available from Siglent public Download center.

Previously published and currently available from Siglent Download center is version 5.01.02.13

[echen1024]

I must say, I own a Siglent SDS1102CNL (the 100MHz version) and it is very good. Nice rise times and build quality, and the front panel seems easier to use than the Rigol. The only gripe would be that the probes smell terrible and don't seem of first quality. It's relatively good for a starter scope, and if you need to, just save up and by an Agilent later on.

[Smithy]

Interestingly there's a new option under save/recall titled "depth recover" with the new firmware.

Anybody got any ideas?

Oh and sniffing oscilloscope probes is bad M'Kay. Just say NO  Kids! 

[David Aurora]

There is new FW version for SIGLENT  SDS1072CML, SDS1102CML, SDS1072CNL, SDS1102CNL.

New version can find here - 5.01.02.22

It is not yet available from Siglent public Download center.

Previously published and currently available from Siglent Download center is version 5.01.02.13

Any drawbacks/risks using this before it's officially pushed out by Siglent? Can I brick my scope and void my warranty or something?

[echen1024]

Interestingly there's a new option under save/recall titled "depth recover" with the new firmware.

Anybody got any ideas?

Oh and sniffing oscilloscope probes is bad M'Kay. Just say NO  Kids! 

As far as I'm concerned, the stench of the probes emanates outward as soon as you open the goddamn bag. What? Did you think I stuck a probe up my nose? 

[Smithy]

Interestingly there's a new option under save/recall titled "depth recover" with the new firmware.

Anybody got any ideas?

Oh and sniffing oscilloscope probes is bad M'Kay. Just say NO  Kids! 

As far as I'm concerned, the stench of the probes emanates outward as soon as you open the goddamn bag. What? Did you think I stuck a probe up my nose? 

What can I say? Ive frequented the inter-webs long enough to not be surprised by anything! 

And I certainly don't recommend you do a google search for a thing called "nasophilia". 

On a more serious note anybody got any ideas about this "depth recover" thing?
I always get a bit scared when your presented with a "are you sure?" option!