Siglent just drop its mic: New SDS800HD 12bit scope crazy price leaked

[KungFuJosh]

Sorry, you don't get your hate for a whole brand to be taken seriously out of a single experience of a single range and single class instrument. There are PSUs, DMMs, SAs, VNAs and a whole host of test equipment from Rigol. Also a lot more scopes. You disliked a piece of TM equipment, nothing more, nothing less.

We all know the SDS2000X-Plus is a great instrument. Often, "Being a fan", and almost always "hating" are just not rational stances, just comfortable ones.

In any case, look at recent Rigol threads. There are more pics from Siglent 'scopes than Rigol ones in some of them. The fact that you don't do it doesn't mean it hasn't been done.

Edit: I might be mistaken, and I might have some kind of personal bias based on the manners of some users, my own interpretation of posts, etc. What I meant is than I am not biased towards any of the brands because I'm not invested at all, neither in Rigol equipment nor Siglent. I want a 12 bit scope, and it will most likely be a Siglent one. But I don't have any kind of attachment or feelings (positive or negative) towards the brands. They are just the ones I can afford new.

🤣🤣🤣 I don't need you to take my Rigol hate seriously, it isn't that serious. If it makes you feel better, l also hate their design choices for their UI, I hate that they release unfinished alpha level toys, etc. For me, there's plenty to hate about them. Also, hate in this case is an exaggeration, I strongly dislike them, but hate types out faster. 😉

I have lots of positive feelings towards Siglent. I've had excellent experiences across a number of devices, and their support, for years. My worst experience with Siglent is them offering only a 50% discount to calibrate a DMM I bought used...and let's face it, that's still pretty damn generous.

[coromonadalix]

 
[/quote]

Edit: I might be mistaken, and I might have some kind of personal bias based on the manners of some users, my own interpretation of posts, etc. What I meant is than I am not biased towards any of the brands because I'm not invested at all, neither in Rigol equipment nor Siglent. I want a 12 bit scope, and it will most likely be a Siglent one. But I don't have any kind of attachment or feelings (positive or negative) towards the brands. They are just the ones I can afford new.
[/quote]

+1 

We use Rigol and Siglent,  what was appealing was the possible SW upgrades, on Both Brands     

They have their own quirk, i learn to navigate thru them,   12 bit was due for a long time at cheap pricing

1 brand output a 12bit,  the other will ...   just a matter of time,  one 14 bits   you know the drill

What is important to me is :   the brand is open to comments / acknowledge and upgrade their FW  to resolve bugs,  rapidly  not a year or two later


and yes  after reading 3 pages   it seems more a fan boy battle between brands

[Antonio90]

Sorry, you don't get your hate for a whole brand to be taken seriously out of a single experience of a single range and single class instrument. There are PSUs, DMMs, SAs, VNAs and a whole host of test equipment from Rigol. Also a lot more scopes. You disliked a piece of TM equipment, nothing more, nothing less.

We all know the SDS2000X-Plus is a great instrument. Often, "Being a fan", and almost always "hating" are just not rational stances, just comfortable ones.

In any case, look at recent Rigol threads. There are more pics from Siglent 'scopes than Rigol ones in some of them. The fact that you don't do it doesn't mean it hasn't been done.

Edit: I might be mistaken, and I might have some kind of personal bias based on the manners of some users, my own interpretation of posts, etc. What I meant is than I am not biased towards any of the brands because I'm not invested at all, neither in Rigol equipment nor Siglent. I want a 12 bit scope, and it will most likely be a Siglent one. But I don't have any kind of attachment or feelings (positive or negative) towards the brands. They are just the ones I can afford new.

🤣🤣🤣 I don't need you to take my Rigol hate seriously, it isn't that serious. If it makes you feel better, l also hate their design choices for their UI, I hate that they release unfinished alpha level toys, etc. For me, there's plenty to hate about them. Also, hate in this case is an exaggeration, I strongly dislike them, but hate types out faster. 😉

I have lots of positive feelings towards Siglent. I've had excellent experiences across a number of devices, and their support, for years. My worst experience with Siglent is them offering only a 50% discount to calibrate a DMM I bought used...and let's face it, that's still pretty damn generous.

It cannot be taken seriously in the sense that it cannot help anyone making a decision about Rigol, other than "Don't buy a DSO1054Z", which nobody will do anymore (new).

As per the "unfinished alpha level toys", this is exactly the problem. That's a value judgement coming out of hate or strong dislike. The new Rigol range, with all it's flaws, has excellent tools for basic 'scope use, and then more. It's the equivalent of calling someone an idiot or some other insult more or less elaborated. Just not useful at all.

Siglent has gotten a lot of that from "A" brands only users, and I find that extremely unhelpful too, and akin to the way a sports team fan talks about competitor sports teams.

[Mechatrommer]

and yes  after reading 3 pages   it seems more a fan boy battle between brands

if this battle continues, i may delete all my posts to unsubscribe. i'm not interested in battle. i need to get update when this siglent will be available in aliexpress... and if its true its going to beat or same price as rigol...

other than "Don't buy a DSO1054Z", which nobody will do anymore (new).

but it was the cheapest 4CH 1GSps DSO back then. siglent (which i think has better spec from fans review) tries to beat rigol in price imho is desperate moves. its being threaten i think?

[Antonio90]

My apologies. I'll stop.

[Martin72]

as per the "unfinished alpha level toys", this is exactly the problem. That's a value judgement coming out of hate or strong dislike.

I like rigol.
After 2 months of almost daily testing, I would say it is not yet a fully mature product.
That sounds nicer, but actually says the same thing.

[Antonio90]

as per the "unfinished alpha level toys", this is exactly the problem. That's a value judgement coming out of hate or strong dislike.

I like rigol.
After 2 months of almost daily testing, I would say it is not yet a fully mature product.
That sounds nicer, but actually says the same thing.

No, It doesn't. A toy, by definition and design, is not a tool.
A partially unfinished tool, that needs more development (as did the MSO5000), is just not a toy.

[KungFuJosh]

No, It doesn't. A toy, by definition and design, is not a tool.
A partially unfinished tool, that needs more development (as did the MSO5000), is just not a toy.

Even toy hammers can smash things. 😉

[Mechatrommer]

as per the "unfinished alpha level toys", this is exactly the problem. That's a value judgement coming out of hate or strong dislike.

After 2 months of almost daily testing, I would say it is not yet a fully mature product.
That sounds nicer, but actually says the same thing.

when i first got ds1054z, of course there are bugs here and there but imho its not the core functionality of an "oscilloscope". anyone remember "pluses"? but from time to time, minor bugs got fixed. i'm not sure about serial decoder since i dont use it, i consider it as bell and whistle. another major (minor?) function i need (brought down from ds1052e) is downloadable data to PC, this one i cant let go. and it also got fixed from time to time, so i continue to be a rigol user. others may have different experience. some bugs also not fixed such as laggy UI, maybe its the limit. at one point in time, i thought about siglent programmability to download data to PC, but since there is no example people have done it, and i dont feel i will have extra benefit and its higher price, so i thought "maybe next time", who knows maybe this is the time? lets see. in fact today i'm still using ds1054z on my main bench, the dho804 is going to be my "lab rat" now until maybe its FW/hackability is fully matured. fwiw...

as per the "unfinished alpha level toys", this is exactly the problem. That's a value judgement coming out of hate or strong dislike.

I like rigol.
After 2 months of almost daily testing, I would say it is not yet a fully mature product.
That sounds nicer, but actually says the same thing.

No, It doesn't. A toy, by definition and design, is not a tool.
A partially unfinished tool, that needs more development (as did the MSO5000), is just not a toy.

i'm sorry for you people not knowing how to use it as a DSO. if ds1054z is a toy, i will still have ds1052e running now as main DSO, but unfortunately it gave up after heavy hack and probably end of life ROM...

[2N3055]

Sorry, you don't get your hate for a whole brand to be taken seriously out of a single experience of a single range and single class instrument. There are PSUs, DMMs, SAs, VNAs and a whole host of test equipment from Rigol. Also a lot more scopes. You disliked a piece of TM equipment, nothing more, nothing less.

We all know the SDS2000X-Plus is a great instrument. Often, "Being a fan", and almost always "hating" are just not rational stances, just comfortable ones.

In any case, look at recent Rigol threads. There are more pics from Siglent 'scopes than Rigol ones in some of them. The fact that you don't do it doesn't mean it hasn't been done.

Edit: I might be mistaken, and I might have some kind of personal bias based on the manners of some users, my own interpretation of posts, etc. What I meant is than I am not biased towards any of the brands because I'm not invested at all, neither in Rigol equipment nor Siglent. I want a 12 bit scope, and it will most likely be a Siglent one. But I don't have any kind of attachment or feelings (positive or negative) towards the brands. They are just the ones I can afford new.

🤣🤣🤣 I don't need you to take my Rigol hate seriously, it isn't that serious. If it makes you feel better, l also hate their design choices for their UI, I hate that they release unfinished alpha level toys, etc. For me, there's plenty to hate about them. Also, hate in this case is an exaggeration, I strongly dislike them, but hate types out faster. 😉

I have lots of positive feelings towards Siglent. I've had excellent experiences across a number of devices, and their support, for years. My worst experience with Siglent is them offering only a 50% discount to calibrate a DMM I bought used...and let's face it, that's still pretty damn generous.

It cannot be taken seriously in the sense that it cannot help anyone making a decision about Rigol, other than "Don't buy a DSO1054Z", which nobody will do anymore (new).

As per the "unfinished alpha level toys", this is exactly the problem. That's a value judgement coming out of hate or strong dislike. The new Rigol range, with all it's flaws, has excellent tools for basic 'scope use, and then more. It's the equivalent of calling someone an idiot or some other insult more or less elaborated. Just not useful at all.

Siglent has gotten a lot of that from "A" brands only users, and I find that extremely unhelpful too, and akin to the way a sports team fan talks about competitor sports teams.

Your statements here are just wrong.  Rigol released HDO series a YEAR ago. 5 months ago they released cheap end of range.
All of them with software in alpha state of development. If you don't understand what that means ask somebody to explain it to you.

Hint: software look, feel and feature set needs to be complete and frozen in specification. It needs to be fully implemented. It needs to be able to pass basic featureset testing.
There were parts of U/I missing or being redefined, BODE plot was not right, FFT windowing coefficients are not correct. There were errors in displaying data in different timebases, there are errors in triggering, decodes etc... That is software that was released in alpha stage.
Beta stage software is feature complete but it wasn't tested in depth. All works but full stress test of production work was not tested.

If Rigol released in that stage that would be fine. But they didn't.
It is not hate. It is simply truth. And those are things that were obvious. Just imagine what is yet to be discovered from those real obscure bugs that show only at specific settings.
Rigols software making process for these scopes is horrible. You can see it from results.
And my opinion is like that because this is not first time. MSO5000/7000 release was complete mess too. Took them years to bring them to decent condition.

As for fanboys.
I am Rigol user. I have DM3068, DP831A, DG1062Z. I had DS1074Z before.
If I have any "feeling" towards Rigol it is disappointment.  DS1074Z was cute little scope but had too many compromises. Shame, but if they only fixed few stupid things it would have been great scope not only OK for the money.  Missed opportunity.
DP831A was bought as advanced PSU with measurements, monitoring, arbitrary V/A generation etc. It is low noise (electrically). First one died on me in warranty, was sent another one. Good service from Rigol. But PSU is loud even on idle and very much so under any load. GUI is so poorly written that using any advanced function is so hard I ended not using it for any of those (although I paid for it). So now I use it as simple low noise linear 2+1 Ch PSU. Overvoltage protection is in software. It takes 400ms to react. Yes, 0.4 seconds. And it is stupid that if you set OVP for 5 volts, and then go to that channel and set it for 30V and enable channel, not only it will let you set 30V, it will enable channel and then only 400ms later it will trip protection...
Etc, etc. It could have been fantastic PSU but failed to fulfil its promise. By inferior software design.
Same with DM3068. It is a 6.5digit DMM that is accurate and stable. But software has same problems. It is just weird and quirky.
DG1062Z is my favourite of them all. Very nice AWG, stable, clean signal, even nice GUI for AWG setting. But they had to screw up something. Counter is crap... Since I don't use it, I don't care and that instrument is my favourite from them all. So from my personal experience over more than 5 years and with 4 devices it is does seem like Rigol as a company has this running theme.
And it really is a shame, because (apart from that DP831A that got replaced) they are all working for 5+ years and have been reliable so far.

So next time before you fanboy him or him or her, make sure to make your facts straight.
And there ARE rabid Rigol fanboys that come to Siglent posts and just spew stupid things. Read this post from beginning ad you will recognize them too.

[2N3055]

but it was the cheapest 4CH 1GSps DSO back then. siglent (which i think has better spec from fans review) tries to beat rigol in price imho is desperate moves. its being threaten i think?

You are hilarious.

It is called market. If they decided to make product in that space, they need to have product that sells. And price is part of that.

But this whole topic is just a bunch of bickering about something that makes no sense.

DHO800 is not released in west yet. We don't have idea if it even will. If it does, then price will not be shaped same as  in China.
Discussing how Rigol And Siglent compete in certain segment in their domestic market might be fun  to some, but it will have no correlation to us in any way.
China is different planet in that regard.

[Mechatrommer]

DHO800 is not released in west yet. We don't have idea if it even will.

i thought you can get it from aliexpress, no?

[2N3055]

DHO800 is not released in west yet. We don't have idea if it even will.

i thought you can get it from aliexpress, no?

I'm not rich enough to spend several hundred euros on something that I don't even get warranty for...
My limit for that kind of purchase would be 20-30 € max.

[Mechatrommer]

no! rich people only buy from legit local distributor

[tautech]

no! rich people only buy from legit local distributor

Not all is as it seems. 

Importing in bulk provides for better buy and shipping costs where we can stick close to RRP then there is always local taxes but buying ePay or Ali you can get hit for those too.
Smart/wise ppl want local support and warranty rather than gamble with a $20 saving......
YMMV

[Antonio90]

Sorry, you don't get your hate for a whole brand to be taken seriously out of a single experience of a single range and single class instrument. There are PSUs, DMMs, SAs, VNAs and a whole host of test equipment from Rigol. Also a lot more scopes. You disliked a piece of TM equipment, nothing more, nothing less.

We all know the SDS2000X-Plus is a great instrument. Often, "Being a fan", and almost always "hating" are just not rational stances, just comfortable ones.

In any case, look at recent Rigol threads. There are more pics from Siglent 'scopes than Rigol ones in some of them. The fact that you don't do it doesn't mean it hasn't been done.

Edit: I might be mistaken, and I might have some kind of personal bias based on the manners of some users, my own interpretation of posts, etc. What I meant is than I am not biased towards any of the brands because I'm not invested at all, neither in Rigol equipment nor Siglent. I want a 12 bit scope, and it will most likely be a Siglent one. But I don't have any kind of attachment or feelings (positive or negative) towards the brands. They are just the ones I can afford new.

🤣🤣🤣 I don't need you to take my Rigol hate seriously, it isn't that serious. If it makes you feel better, l also hate their design choices for their UI, I hate that they release unfinished alpha level toys, etc. For me, there's plenty to hate about them. Also, hate in this case is an exaggeration, I strongly dislike them, but hate types out faster. 😉

I have lots of positive feelings towards Siglent. I've had excellent experiences across a number of devices, and their support, for years. My worst experience with Siglent is them offering only a 50% discount to calibrate a DMM I bought used...and let's face it, that's still pretty damn generous.

It cannot be taken seriously in the sense that it cannot help anyone making a decision about Rigol, other than "Don't buy a DSO1054Z", which nobody will do anymore (new).

As per the "unfinished alpha level toys", this is exactly the problem. That's a value judgement coming out of hate or strong dislike. The new Rigol range, with all it's flaws, has excellent tools for basic 'scope use, and then more. It's the equivalent of calling someone an idiot or some other insult more or less elaborated. Just not useful at all.

Siglent has gotten a lot of that from "A" brands only users, and I find that extremely unhelpful too, and akin to the way a sports team fan talks about competitor sports teams.

Your statements here are just wrong.  Rigol released HDO series a YEAR ago. 5 months ago they released cheap end of range.
All of them with software in alpha state of development. If you don't understand what that means ask somebody to explain it to you.

Hint: software look, feel and feature set needs to be complete and frozen in specification. It needs to be fully implemented. It needs to be able to pass basic featureset testing.
There were parts of U/I missing or being redefined, BODE plot was not right, FFT windowing coefficients are not correct. There were errors in displaying data in different timebases, there are errors in triggering, decodes etc... That is software that was released in alpha stage.
Beta stage software is feature complete but it wasn't tested in depth. All works but full stress test of production work was not tested.

If Rigol released in that stage that would be fine. But they didn't.
It is not hate. It is simply truth. And those are things that were obvious. Just imagine what is yet to be discovered from those real obscure bugs that show only at specific settings.
Rigols software making process for these scopes is horrible. You can see it from results.
And my opinion is like that because this is not first time. MSO5000/7000 release was complete mess too. Took them years to bring them to decent condition.

As for fanboys.
I am Rigol user. I have DM3068, DP831A, DG1062Z. I had DS1074Z before.
If I have any "feeling" towards Rigol it is disappointment.  DS1074Z was cute little scope but had too many compromises. Shame, but if they only fixed few stupid things it would have been great scope not only OK for the money.  Missed opportunity.
DP831A was bought as advanced PSU with measurements, monitoring, arbitrary V/A generation etc. It is low noise (electrically). First one died on me in warranty, was sent another one. Good service from Rigol. But PSU is loud even on idle and very much so under any load. GUI is so poorly written that using any advanced function is so hard I ended not using it for any of those (although I paid for it). So now I use it as simple low noise linear 2+1 Ch PSU. Overvoltage protection is in software. It takes 400ms to react. Yes, 0.4 seconds. And it is stupid that if you set OVP for 5 volts, and then go to that channel and set it for 30V and enable channel, not only it will let you set 30V, it will enable channel and then only 400ms later it will trip protection...
Etc, etc. It could have been fantastic PSU but failed to fulfil its promise. By inferior software design.
Same with DM3068. It is a 6.5digit DMM that is accurate and stable. But software has same problems. It is just weird and quirky.
DG1062Z is my favourite of them all. Very nice AWG, stable, clean signal, even nice GUI for AWG setting. But they had to screw up something. Counter is crap... Since I don't use it, I don't care and that instrument is my favourite from them all. So from my personal experience over more than 5 years and with 4 devices it is does seem like Rigol as a company has this running theme.
And it really is a shame, because (apart from that DP831A that got replaced) they are all working for 5+ years and have been reliable so far.

So next time before you fanboy him or him or her, make sure to make your facts straight.
And there ARE rabid Rigol fanboys that come to Siglent posts and just spew stupid things. Read this post from beginning ad you will recognize them too.

I recall posting in a DHO800 thread, with a similar theme, that actually your inputs were among the ones I valued the most, as I saw them as non-biased and coming from experience. But you always have to take everything as personal and bring out the beligerant bully, don't you?

What facts did I get wrong, mind you? Can you point me to a single instance in this thread with the word "fanboy" in one of my posts? Maybe fans? Are those words factually the same? Maybe they have different "connotations" and you are talking about factoids?

I'm afraid you won't find ANY statement in my posts about "alpha" or "beta" software state, but it seems you need to call bullshit on imagined statements? What about my first post that starts with:

I might be wrong, but my perception is [...]

does that look to you like the beginning of a fact sheet?

I think every hobbyist has to thank Rigol for driving a very strong competition, pushing the rest of manufacturers to compete in price and features, and also has to thank Siglent, for bringing refined software and higher-end analytical features to the entry level TM market.

Is that, by any chance factually false? Or maybe you just don't give a damn because you are not a hobbyist? Or consider it a subjective opinion and you have your own?

MSO5000, DHO800, are they (or were) toys? Let me help you with facts:



Apparently, you considered necessary to go out in shining armor with your facts to fight an inexistent "non alpha" claim, to cover for the "toy" facts. I'd rather have a DHO1000 "toy" than an old CRO tool, or the telephone in question.

Were the DS1000z, DM3068, DP831A, when they came out, generally better than anything at their price range? Excluding, of course, used A brand equipment. Were they, by any chance, a driving factor for competition from other manufacturers? In particular, did Siglent follow suit and released a slightly more expensive and quite a bit more polished product?

As per the DMM3068, it got a pretty good, exhaustive review from Sahriar. Maybe "quirky" is a bit of a subjective undetermined concept (by definition) and not a fact.

Really, please, point me the facts that need to be straightened. Because I will without problem, but no need to unearth the tomahawks.

[Fungus]

as per the "unfinished alpha level toys", this is exactly the problem. That's a value judgement coming out of hate or strong dislike.

I like rigol.
After 2 months of almost daily testing, I would say it is not yet a fully mature product.
That sounds nicer, but actually says the same thing.

Are you calling it "alpha level"? That's not true at all.

The problem is that you've spent 2 months deliberately focusing on perceived weaknesses so that's what's been in your head.

Reality check: There's very few bugs (four or five) and all of them have simple workarounds (no showstoppers).

[Martin72]

The problem is that you've spent 2 months deliberately focusing on perceived weaknesses so that's what's been in your head.

At last someone is telling me what my problems are, I've been waiting my whole life for this.
I'm a testfield technician by profession, testing has been my daily job for 20 years and I'm now head of the department.
I approach such test courses with an open mind, anything else would be counterproductive.
I have experience with previous rigol scopes, DS1054Z, DS2072, MSO5074, DHO4204.
And as I said to your address, if the rigol only had 4-5 bugs, it would be the most mature product on the entire market.
Even you don't really believe that, do you?

[Mechatrommer]

The problem is that you've spent 2 months deliberately focusing on perceived weaknesses so that's what's been in your head.

At last someone is telling me what my problems are, I've been waiting my whole life for this.
I'm a testfield technician by profession, testing has been my daily job for 20 years and I'm now head of the department.
I approach such test courses with an open mind, anything else would be counterproductive.
I have experience with previous rigol scopes, DS1054Z, DS2072, MSO5074, DHO4204.
And as I said to your address, if the rigol only had 4-5 bugs, it would be the most mature product on the entire market.
Even you don't really believe that, do you?

ouh really? and i am a hobbiest, and you cant get FFT right on DHO800.. why is that?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dho804-test-and-compare-thread/msg5202852/#msg5202852
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dho804-test-and-compare-thread/msg5203848/#msg5203848

i'm not trying to dickwave rigol fanboyism here, but some people here are just not up to what they claimed they are... verily not imho... the other guy claimed a brand representative but have no or little clue on sampled vs interpolated points... i have to make a whole pages of gibbs and sinc interplation course and they can hardly understand

[nctnico]

Siglent has gotten a lot of that from "A" brands only users, and I find that extremely unhelpful too, and akin to the way a sports team fan talks about competitor sports teams.

You may think that, but I've tried very hard to use Siglent equipment in a professional / commercial environment and ran into failure after failure. The A-brands really do have an advantage because they are decades ahead where it comes to experience designing equipment and knowing what engineers really need. There is a lot more to test equipment than a datasheet with a list of specifications. Ofcourse this reflects back on the price but spending days or weeks chasing a problem that ends up to be a problem in the test equipment becomes really expensive really quickly (in some cases exceeding the price for buying A-brand equipment from the start). I regret very little in life but buying Siglent equipment is one of the things I regret deeply.

[PELL]

Guys.... be nice to each other.

The original idea for making this post was to share some little funny toys with you guys. But it ends up as an argument.

If this argument continues, I will probably lock down this thread (If I can)

[Fungus]

Guys.... be nice to each other.

The original idea for making this post was to share some little funny toys with you guys. But it ends up as an argument.

If this argument continues, I will probably lock down this thread (If I can)

This is normal...

[Fungus]

I regret very little in life but buying Siglent equipment is one of the things I regret deeply.

Joesmith (of meter destruction fame) tells a similar story.

[Veteran68]

As a software engineer by profession, similar "religious" arguments between brand A and brand B, or product A and product B, are not at all uncommon. Wars about programmer's editors (edlin vs Brief vs PE2 vs vi vs emacs) or IDEs (Borland vs Microsoft vs Eclipse vs NetBeans vs VSCode...) or languages (C vs C++ vs Java vs Python vs ...) have always existed and always will. Programmers are really passionate about their tools and like to get awfully worked up about it. Not unlike the Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge folks, or the XBox vs Playstation folks.

Obviously, hardware guys are the same about their test equipment.

Me personally, I rose above all that years ago. Give me the best tool for the job. I'm always open to change, and am always looking for the next new tool. I can be happy with a tool for years, and will drop it in a heartbeat if I find another I like better. So I'm no "fanboy." I own Macs and PCs, Linux and Windows, I code in C/C++, Java, C#, Javascript, Python... whatever gets the job at hand done. I own both XBox and Playstation consoles. And so on.

Sure, I tend to lean towards brands I like. I have an affinity towards Siglent because it was the "B" brand that I started with when I equipped my own hobby lab. I saw Rigol gear was popular with hobbyists, but something about Siglent just spoke to me so that's the route I went. And I have this unhealthy obsession (OCD?) with matching my gear unless something is just totally trash. I'll tend to prefer 80% of the value or functionality just to have the same brand as another piece of gear at 100%.

I did not jump on the DHO800/900 bandwagon because I wanted to see it play out, and it looked like a bumpy start. Based on what I'd been hearing and reading, that was typical for Rigol. But Siglent dragging their feet on releasing an entry level 12-bit scope that could compete, and me itching for an upgrade for my SDS1104X-E (even though I don't really *need* an upgrade), combined with Rigol's investment in custom ASICs with no sign that Siglent was doing the same kind of investment, kept my mind open on Rigol.

The nail in the coffin was the 40% off BF deal on the DHO1074. Within minutes of receiving it, I had it "liberated" to its full potential with the upgrades. The equivalent DHO model is $1849. I paid $563+tax delivered. And it's beautiful! It's definitely not a "toy" as some people put it. Have I stressed it to the buggy breaking point yet? Nope. Will I ever? Maybe not, I'm just a hobbyist that works more in the digital world than analog (though I do dabble a little). Like I said, I couldn't really justify the upgrade. But I wanted to upgrade, and so far I'm very happy with my Rigol -- even if it's the only Rigol among four other Siglent devices.

Had it not been for the BF sale, I'd still be waiting for Siglent to release something comparable in price/features. And if/when they DO finally release something comparable in the US, I'll consider offloading the Rigol and getting it. Or maybe not. But in the meantime, I have a very nice, very useful Rigol scope that I'm quite happy with. Maybe I'll placate my OCD by printing a Siglent badge to stick over the Rigol one, LOL.

EDIT: Oh, and I've definitely noticed the Rigol fans crapping in Siglent threads. That definitely cuts both ways.

[JPortici]

MSO5000, DHO800, are they (or were) toys?

Yes, they are (or maybe the 5k were, i dropped out of the conversation as soon as it was found to be "hackable to the much much higher specced instrument". Clearly they both are valued the same, not very much apparently. I lurked on the Bugs thread and shook my head a few times for what they managed to get wrong and still release to the public, that's it. Now it's probably really usable)
You need to get your facts straight.
Rigol keep releasing heavily unfinished products, both hardware and firmware, that is a fact. Some get eventually fixed/finished over time but if you only look at them in their finished state, without understanding that they have been in the hand of the customer as unfinished for quite some time before, you can't possibly understand what we mean.
And while we users may be condoning this behaviour on the bottom of the barrel line, the moment you can afford better class instruments and see the same patterns repeating you really lose confidence in them.
It always baffled me that they had enough money and R&D to come up with their ASIC but then again release those line of products, such wasted potential. Because you mentioned it, I had genuinely high hopes for the 5000 series but as soon as it came out they were "fully hackable" to the much higher specced and much higher priced counterpart, i immediately lost faith in them because the pattern was being repeated again and again. Imagine instead a siglent scope using those ASICs.
Really, if you can't see the flaws in the software side you either never used "proper" scopes, or are only using a tool at a fraction of their potential, which is completely fine but you can't really judge as being fanboys.

Thankfully i advanced in my career enough that i no longer can only afford the cheapest stuff (I previously owned a 1054Z and other even cheaper tools which i hated to use every single time, but couldn't afford anything else) and at some point i chose to put my money on siglent and that decision paid off. This is why i both praise and critique siglent (and what i said in previous posts was probably not my conjecture.)
From time to time i get the change to play with rigol items because reasons, nothing i have seen made me change my opinion