Siglent just drop its mic: New SDS800HD 12bit scope crazy price leaked

[Serg65536]

The price claim is, probably, a trick to drop down rigol dho800 sales. THERE IS NO WAY TO BEAT RIGOL PRICES WITH THIRD PARTY COMPONENTS! Rigol custom ICs are much cheaper for them.

[tautech]

The price claim is, probably, a trick to drop down rigol dho800 sales. THERE IS NO WAY TO BEAT RIGOL PRICES WITH THIRD PARTY COMPONENTS! Rigol custom ICs are much cheaper for them.

What makes you make such a claim ?
Have you done a teardown of each and made a BOM ?

The SW costs of each are minimal as they share the UI/GUI of existing models.

Please when you have revelations that are of real interest/fact there is then not even a need to yell.

[Muttley Snickers]

As somebody who was about to order an SDS1104X-E I'm interested to know what they will do in regards to timestamps on this new model?  RTC or NTP?   

PS: I've been pretty sick of late so the acquisition of the new scope hasn't been a priority, making sure I'm around to learn how to use it is probably a bit more important.   

[Martin72]

What makes you make such a claim ?
Have you done a teardown of each and made a BOM ?

Guys, we don't know anything at the moment.
We will only know more when it comes onto the market and then we will also know the prices.
Until then, it's all just speculation.
Apart from that, it is rather unlikely that siglent will copy rigol, because that would mean an unfinished product with zero support and meager features.
Then you might as well go for the original.

[tautech]

I'm interested to know what they will do in regards to timestamps on this new model?  RTC or NTP?

Datasheet specfies NTP is supported.

[Fungus]

I think one of the basic applications, the FFT function, is pretty screwed up.
Not only do you not have a choice of different modes, the function itself is buggy, keyword windows (flat top, Hanning, etc).
This is a no-go for such a basic function, something that distinguishes a DSO from an analog CRT scope.
The advantages of a functioning FFT equipped with various modes are obvious, see picture.
And you don't even need a scope like mine for this, the SDS1140X-E can already do that.

If you're an ordinary FFT user then there's NO WAY IN HELL that should be taken as buying advice though. The DHO800's FFT works just fine for picking out frequencies/harmonics in a signal, and literally everything else about the DHO800 blows those antique 'scopes into the last century.

The DHO's FFT probably works better than the Siglent for most people because it's so easy to set up and use. Pinch/zoom makes it really easy to set center/span, too. Siglent FFT might have the "missing" parameter but even Dave managed to screw something up when he tried to use it (Siglent apologists swear it was Dave's fault, not the 'scopes fault. Right?)



As noted in this thread: Siglent is promising a response to Rigol and nobody who's thinking about buying a new 'scope should be looking at a SDS1140X-E right now (not unless it['s for a critical job that needs doing this week and they found a very specialized case that only the SDS1140X-E can do and I'm tired of having to spell out the exceptions to all the oscilloscope lawyers in the forum)

If you're a heavy/precise/critical FFT user then a specialized device will blow away these 'scopes anyway, so...   

[Martin72]

I find your enthusiasm admirable, but unfortunately that doesn't change the fact that the FFT function doesn't run smoothly with the Rigol (with all models).
There is still hope that rigol will turn around and put more work into the software.
We don't need to say a word about the operation of the rigol, its user interface in general, which I consider to be one of the best on the market.

[tautech]

Siglent FFT might have the "missing" parameter but even Dave managed to screw something up when he tried to use it (Siglent apologists swear it was Dave's fault, not the 'scopes fault. Right?)

Correct and proven Dave has no idea by several members posts in other threads.

[KungFuJosh]

(Siglent apologists swear it was Dave's fault, not the 'scopes fault. Right?)

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Who would dare claim Dave is capable of making mistakes?!?!?!?!?! How dare they!

[nctnico]

Siglent FFT might have the "missing" parameter but even Dave managed to screw something up when he tried to use it (Siglent apologists swear it was Dave's fault, not the 'scopes fault. Right?)

Correct and proven Dave has no idea by several members posts in other threads.

Ask yourself this though: if somebody like Dave, who is not new to oscilloscopes at all, can't get it to work; how about a hobbyist / novice user? There is a lot to say for tools which are intuitive to use and Rigol seems to have hit the nail on the head. -insert Monty Python's ministry of funny walks video here-

[Martin72]

There's not that much to adjust to get the right result - if even I can do it, that means something.
And I wasn't alone, others have managed it too.
It's just a question of whether you want it or not and obviously it wasn't wanted if the operator is actually an expert in the field.

[Fungus]

Ask yourself this though: if somebody like Dave, who is not new to oscilloscopes at all, can't get it to work; how about a hobbyist / novice user? There is a lot to say for tools which are intuitive to use and Rigol seems to have hit the nail on the head. -insert Monty Python's ministry of funny walks video here-

I tried to make that argument earlier and got myself flamed by the Siglent club.

So long as the peaks/noise are easy to find and measure (which they are) then what's the problem? 

[aeberbach]

I preferred the Siglent I had to the Rigol I had, this news makes me happy that I didn't jump on the 12-bit Rigol already. Looking forward to seeing real price and availability figures and of course the full review.

[2N3055]

Siglent FFT might have the "missing" parameter but even Dave managed to screw something up when he tried to use it (Siglent apologists swear it was Dave's fault, not the 'scopes fault. Right?)

Correct and proven Dave has no idea by several members posts in other threads.

Ask yourself this though: if somebody like Dave, who is not new to oscilloscopes at all, can't get it to work; how about a hobbyist / novice user? There is a lot to say for tools which are intuitive to use and Rigol seems to have hit the nail on the head. -insert Monty Python's ministry of funny walks video here-

I would not say that Dave has no idea, but also he is not advanced user either. Not because he couldn't be. He is a smart guy.
But let's be frank, he prefers certain type of workflow and anything that is different he simply ignores. And also he says all the time "I couldn't be bothered to read the manual" and then fumbles around scope buttons and knobs twiddling them nervously until screen starts showing something familiar. He has no patience...
That makes for entertaining videos. Which is what he does for living.

He did that for R&S scopes, and Rigol scopes and all of the scopes that are not Keysight, that he knows how to drive...

Dave's videos are not a reference. They are data point. With specific features. Very useful but not a reference.

[Performa01]

Dave's videos are not a reference. They are data point. With specific features. Very useful but not a reference.

And it's quite the opposite of the clueless claims.

It is not hard at all to setup an FM spectrum display, yet it proved impossible (for me at least) to reproduce the weird display Dave has shown in the video. This is what I said in the review thread about the incident:

Remember when the DHO800 showed weird things on the screen? Dave tried hard to find the cause – which in the end was just a flaky cable connection. He made even a separate video on it. Yet when the Siglent showed implausible results, Dave just wrote it off as “it doesn’t like it at all” – and Rigol fanboys had a party, even though it should be very clear that such an obvious major bug would not have gone unnoticed for an instrument that’s been on the market for almost 6 years now and numerous examples of its (still) superb FFT have been posted in this forum already.

[.RC.]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Who would dare claim Dave is capable of making mistakes?!?!?!?!?! How dare they!

Pistols at dawn surely?

[Mechatrommer]

And the price is astonishing to me: every different model has the same price as the Rigol DHO800 and 900 Series. So let me explain a bit....
And the Siglent has 2GSa, 7 digits frequency counter, faster waveform update rate, better UI... Pretty much every spces just better that Rigol

if this is true, i'll KIV and waiting with eager... at first glance 2GSps is the winning point, but DHO800 has sig gen and LA probe port to tap in so i bet its going to be a harsh competition. i treat this development/news as positive, we are a fan of "bang per buck" not rigol nor siglent... fwiw...

[ebastler]

DHO800 has sig gen and LA probe port to tap in so i bet its going to be a harsh competition.

Adding the signal generator and logic probe interface to the DHO800 will be relevant for less than 1% of the customers, I'd say. It's a very physical "hack"...

[2N3055]

And the price is astonishing to me: every different model has the same price as the Rigol DHO800 and 900 Series. So let me explain a bit....
And the Siglent has 2GSa, 7 digits frequency counter, faster waveform update rate, better UI... Pretty much every spces just better that Rigol

if this is true, i'll KIV and waiting with eager... at first glance 2GSps is the winning point, but DHO800 has sig gen and LA probe port to tap in so i bet its going to be a harsh competition. i treat this development/news as positive, we are a fan of "bang per buck" not rigol nor siglent... fwiw...

Make sure to explain that your " but DHO800 has sig gen and LA probe port" statement means disassembling scope, and soldering chips on motherboard and installing DHO900 SW and.... And even then nobody did it yet and not everybody will be willing or able to do it. Just saying. If you can, good for you.

I (and many others) prefer to buy my scope as a finished product with warranty not as a DIY "assemble yourself at your own responsibility" kit.
Please compare like for like...

[Warhawk]

And the price is astonishing to me: every different model has the same price as the Rigol DHO800 and 900 Series. So let me explain a bit....
And the Siglent has 2GSa, 7 digits frequency counter, faster waveform update rate, better UI... Pretty much every spces just better that Rigol

if this is true, i'll KIV and waiting with eager... at first glance 2GSps is the winning point, but DHO800 has sig gen and LA probe port to tap in so i bet its going to be a harsh competition. i treat this development/news as positive, we are a fan of "bang per buck" not rigol nor siglent... fwiw...

Make sure to explain that your " but DHO800 has sig gen and LA probe port" statement means disassembling scope, and soldering chips on motherboard and installing DHO900 SW and.... And even then nobody did it yet and not everybody will be willing or able to do it. Just saying. If you can, good for you.

I (and many others) prefer to buy my scope as a finished product with warranty not as a DIY "assemble yourself at your own responsibility" kit.
Please compare like for like...

+ cutout in the housing for the LA thing...

But generally I don't know why there are two groups that throw rocks at each other. Competition is good. Hobbyists probably greatly benefit from Siglent vs Rigol competition. There is, however, a risk that the overall quality and sw readiness will suffer over time in attempt to be the first on the market.

[tv84]

There is, however, a risk that the overall quality and sw readiness will suffer over time in attempt to be the first on the market.

Not only risk. It's a reality already!

[Antonio90]

I might be wrong, but my perception is that there are a few die-hard Siglent fans here, a couple of Siglent distributors and another two or three Siglent testers.
They go around the forum, especially Rigol threads continuously, showing how $3k scopes are better in every regard than $300 ones, and there is even a $400 Siglent scope that is much better at FFT than Rigol.

There are surely die-hard Rigol fans, but they aren't as active. You can identify pretty clearly who I'm talking about, because they only show specific things that are better on Siglent, and never anything that's better on Rigol. They are also really active in the forum and, besides their (nonprofit?) Siglent PR and advertisement work, they are competent engineers, useful contributors and, most of them, quite nice actually.
EDIT: They sometimes aren't as nice, if you dare to criticize Siglent. They might even be capable of questioning the professional competence of some users if they dare to chose a cheaper Rigol over Siglent for hobby use, which nobody competent enough would do 

I think every hobbyist has to thank Rigol for driving a very strong competition, pushing the rest of manufacturers to compete in price and features, and also has to thank Siglent, for bringing refined software and higher-end analytical features to the entry level TM market.

I sometimes get "sports team fan" vibes from the arguments about Siglent vs Rigol. Again, I might be wrong, but hardly biased.

[Mechatrommer]

But generally I don't know why there are two groups that throw rocks at each other. Competition is good. Hobbyists probably greatly benefit from Siglent vs Rigol competition. There is, however, a risk that the overall quality and sw readiness will suffer over time in attempt to be the first on the market.

we usually dont throw rock at siglent, its them thats starting. but now as long as its not insulting to the intelligence, even if they throw at us, i dont feel like to throw back at them because i feel "i'm invincible, i'm unstoppable, i'm so powerful, i dont need batteries today". its them thats threaten not us, thats why this thread exists. cheers.

[KungFuJosh]

They go around the forum, especially Rigol threads continuously, showing how $3k scopes are better in every regard than $300 ones, and there is even a $400 Siglent scope that is much better at FFT than Rigol.

There are surely die-hard Rigol fans, but they aren't as active.

This sounds like a heavily biased perspective to me. I see a lot of threads on here, and it's basically impossible to have a Siglent thread without some specific Rigol fanboys flinging mud and mediocre opinions.

Personally, I hate Rigol, based on my experience with my first scope being a 1054Z. I don't go posting hate in Rigol threads though. The only thing I've said in a Rigol thread was giving kudos for them adding VESA mounts on some of their new scopes, because I think it's a cool feature.

[Antonio90]

They go around the forum, especially Rigol threads continuously, showing how $3k scopes are better in every regard than $300 ones, and there is even a $400 Siglent scope that is much better at FFT than Rigol.

There are surely die-hard Rigol fans, but they aren't as active.

This sounds like a heavily biased perspective to me. I see a lot of threads on here, and it's basically impossible to have a Siglent thread without some specific Rigol fanboys flinging mud and mediocre opinions.

Personally, I hate Rigol, based on my experience with my first scope being a 1054Z. I don't go posting hate in Rigol threads though. The only thing I've said in a Rigol thread was giving kudos for them adding VESA mounts on some of their new scopes, because I think it's a cool feature.

Sorry, you don't get your hate for a whole brand to be taken seriously out of a single experience of a single range and single class instrument. There are PSUs, DMMs, SAs, VNAs and a whole host of test equipment from Rigol. Also a lot more scopes. You disliked a piece of TM equipment, nothing more, nothing less.

We all know the SDS2000X-Plus is a great instrument. Often, "Being a fan", and almost always "hating" are just not rational stances, just comfortable ones.

In any case, look at recent Rigol threads. There are more pics from Siglent 'scopes than Rigol ones in some of them. The fact that you don't do it doesn't mean it hasn't been done.

Edit: I might be mistaken, and I might have some kind of personal bias based on the manners of some users, my own interpretation of posts, etc. What I meant is than I am not biased towards any of the brands because I'm not invested at all, neither in Rigol equipment nor Siglent. I want a 12 bit scope, and it will most likely be a Siglent one. But I don't have any kind of attachment or feelings (positive or negative) towards the brands. They are just the ones I can afford new.