Siglent just drop its mic: New SDS800HD 12bit scope crazy price leaked

[Veteran68]

I'm a diehard Siglent fan, but could not pass up the BF deal on the DHO1074. It's a $999 MSRP scope upgraded to a $1849 MSRP scope that cost me <$600. I'm quite happy with it so far and it blows away my good ol' SDS1104X-E, but I'm still in the honeymoon phase so we'll see.

While I would have much rather stayed with Siglent, they just could not compete in that price/performance space. Now that I have the DHO1074 I don't think I'd be interested in anything less than the SDS1000X HD series and I seriously doubt Siglent will slash the price nearly as much. MAYBE for next BF? If the 1000X HD scopes are *that* much better than the DH1000 scopes and come in below $1K, then I *might* consider selling the DHO1074. I'm sure I can recoup my investment and then some. For now, I remain quite happy with what I've got.

[Martin72]

I've had the DHO804 here for 2 months for testing, I bought it especially so that I could test it for that long.
Since I had the DHO4204 for 3 weeks at the beginning of this year and now the DHO804, I know that the software is the same on all scopes.
I think one of the basic applications, the FFT function, is pretty screwed up.
Not only do you not have a choice of different modes, the function itself is buggy, keyword windows (flat top, Hanning, etc).
This is a no-go for such a basic function, something that distinguishes a DSO from an analog CRT scope.
The advantages of a functioning FFT equipped with various modes are obvious, see picture.
And you don't even need a scope like mine for this, the SDS1140X-E can already do that.
And even more so the SDS800X HD, 1000X HD...

[Fungus]

I spend the money, I should get a finished product,

Come on... there's a bug thread for every single Siglent product. Some have never been fixed.

[Martin72]

Which serious bugs have not yet been fixed, for which models?
Have you tested this after every firmware upgrade for your Siglent scope?
Please give some examples, not all feature requests are fulfilled, but the Siglent people are pretty alert when it comes to bugs, if they are bugs and not user error / ignorance of the manual (RTFM).

[PELL]

guys, be nice to each other

anyway, as a DHO804 user, I would like to see what Rigol will do to respond to this.

I mean, from the hardware perspective, the 800X HD is just better except for the portability right?

But DHO has a more powerful computing platform (RK3399 vs. probably ZYNQ built in ARM cores). The only thing they can do now is focus on their buggy software and make it better.

Otherwise, RIgol will lose this competition at least in China

[Fungus]

anyway, as a DHO804 user, I would like to see what Rigol will do to respond to this.

We'll have to wait for a teardown but I imagine the Rigol is cheaper to produce due to their ASIC.

[tautech]

anyway, as a DHO804 user, I would like to see what Rigol will do to respond to this.

We'll have to wait for a teardown but I imagine the Rigol is cheaper to produce due to their ASIC.

Well look at the bigger picture.....
It has been said SDS2000X HD was too cheap considering the cost of its HW.

SDS2000X HD which uses two 2 GSa/s 12 bit ADC's has now dropped in price, why ?
Could it be those ADC's are now cheaper or by now using more so to buy at better pricing ?

Either way, it appears the price reduction is also flowing into the new lower cost 12 bit models where sales number will be higher.

[JPortici]

And i'm actually disappointed in siglent having to follow rigol lately, though their 800 series looks much less like a cheap toy

I agree with general sentiment / hating on Rigol (I've hated them since I once briefly made the mistake of purchasing a 1054Z). But your statement of Siglent following them is inaccurate. Siglent's products come out later, because they're better developed, and that takes time. Releasing unfinished products in alpha stages will always come out faster than products that actually go through proper development and beta testing before hitting the market.

calling it "800" and a couple of other small details makes me think there was a rushed marketing decision in the branding of this instrument just before release and i can't get that out of my head. This is what disappoints me, nothing else. I was also disappointed when they gave in to the stupid zoom out debacle (i don't understand how your instrument works so it must be wrong FIIIIIIX IIIIIIT REEEEEEEEEEE - insert angry pepe - ) but at least that has been settled for good so it was probably a smart choice to give in

[rf-loop]

So long story short: Siglent announced they will release a new scope on December 12, which you probably know is the new 800HD series for completion from Rigol.

But today they already put the product information on JD and TaoBao, China's two biggest online stores.

And the price is astonishing to me: every different model has the same price as the Rigol DHO800 and 900 Series. So let me explain a bit.

DHO802: RMB 1,999
SDS802X HD:  RMB 1,980

DHO804: RMB 2,299
SDS804X HD: RMB 2,280
...

you get the idea

And the Siglent has 2GSa, 7 digits frequency counter, faster waveform update rate, better UI... Pretty much every spces just better that Rigol

Here is the Chinese specs sheet.

But why you forget (    )   to tell that only full power and full memory version, 200MHz SDS824X HD,  price is there in JD,  RMB 4580
There was also told waiting time. 2 week.
As can see in data sheet 70 and 100MHz versions have limited memory and limited wfm/s speed. They are "economy" versions.  Only full version is SDS824XHD


70MHz and 100MHz versions price difference based to JD is 400RMB. 

My prognose based on Siglent's past longtime behavior is that only 100MHz and 200MHz models and probably only 4-channel models come to the western market. But who knows, behavior may suddenly change. I just don't believe in that change. At least if there is no reason. Secondly, why should good things be sold cheaply.
Then, there is higher price SDS1000X HD if want higher premium quality in this performance class (and 50 ohm inputs, bigger display and some other things. It is not display alone what rise weight over 50%... ).

[Antonio90]

And i'm actually disappointed in siglent having to follow rigol lately, though their 800 series looks much less like a cheap toy

I agree with general sentiment / hating on Rigol (I've hated them since I once briefly made the mistake of purchasing a 1054Z). But your statement of Siglent following them is inaccurate. Siglent's products come out later, because they're better developed, and that takes time. Releasing unfinished products in alpha stages will always come out faster than products that actually go through proper development and beta testing before hitting the market.

calling it "800" and a couple of other small details makes me think there was a rushed marketing decision in the branding of this instrument just before release and i can't get that out of my head. This is what disappoints me, nothing else. I was also disappointed when they gave in to the stupid zoom out debacle (i don't understand how your instrument works so it must be wrong FIIIIIIX IIIIIIT REEEEEEEEEEE - insert angry pepe - ) but at least that has been settled for good so it was probably a smart choice to give in

There was some of that, yes, but the point about the memory management was a valid one, and there were quite a few competent engineers which used the scope in that manner when debugging.
The fact that Siglent addressed it is a good thing, it doesn't take anything out for those of you that know so much, and just adds functionality.
It's just a tool. They don't "give in", just try to cater to as many engineers as possible.

[ebastler]

Then, there is higher price SDS1000X HD if want higher premium quality in this performance class (and 50 ohm inputs, bigger display and some other things. It is not display alone what rise weight over 50%... ).

Do you have information what these "other things" would be? Comparing the spec sheets of the 824X HD and the 1204X HD, the display size and 50 Ohm inputs were the only differences I noticed. (And the bigger box. ) EDIT: The 1000 series also has a second USB host port.

Thank you for further details!

[Martin72]

EDIT: The 1000 series also has a second USB host port.

The 800 will also have this, like the 1104X-E on the back.

[rf-loop]

Then, there is higher price SDS1000X HD if want higher premium quality in this performance class (and 50 ohm inputs, bigger display and some other things. It is not display alone what rise weight over 50%... ).

Do you have information what these "other things" would be? Comparing the spec sheets of the 824X HD and the 1204X HD, the display size and 50 Ohm inputs were the only differences I noticed. (And the bigger box. ) EDIT: The 1000 series also has a second USB host port.

Thank you for further details!

Just as when measuring things with instruments, one should also prefer sufficient accuracy when reading or other way observing.

[ebastler]

Just as when measuring things with instruments, one should also prefer sufficient accuracy when reading or other way observing.

Or you could just write a helpful reply. 

Seriously, man -- what's wrong with you? As stated, I did compare those data sheets and did not note further differences. I found the comparison tedious, since there are still fragments of Chinese which I can't read. I posted a genuine, interested question. And you come back with this "fuck you" response. Bad day?

[Antonio90]

Then, there is higher price SDS1000X HD if want higher premium quality in this performance class (and 50 ohm inputs, bigger display and some other things. It is not display alone what rise weight over 50%... ).

Do you have information what these "other things" would be? Comparing the spec sheets of the 824X HD and the 1204X HD, the display size and 50 Ohm inputs were the only differences I noticed. (And the bigger box. ) EDIT: The 1000 series also has a second USB host port.

Thank you for further details!

Just as when measuring things with instruments, one should also prefer sufficient accuracy when reading or other way observing.

Just as in the rest of human interactions, in a forum one should prefer to remain silent instead of implicitly insulting someone without reason.
The question is relevant, whether you want to answer it or not.

[KungFuJosh]

It read more to me like a friendly jab. Or like when people reply with RTFM.

[Antonio90]

It read more to me like a friendly jab. Or like when people reply with RTFM.

Might be. I certainly wouldn't read it that way but, if that is the case, I apologize. Rfloop posts usually look more like a bash in the head, more than a jab, but forum posts lack nuance, it's possible I guess.

Still, the elephant in the room is that, as far as we know, both scopes are basically the same. A brief overview of the differences wouldn't have taken much more time than a snarky response, at least for someone with good knowledge of both scopes, taking into account the obvious differences are known: attenuation detection, 50ohms bigger screen. ¿Is the FPGA/processor different? ¿More protocol decoders? ¿Triggers? ¿Math functions? ¿10MHz reference in/out?
We can certainly try to compare partially translated datasheets, or maybe we can ask the Siglent distrubutors with prerelease samples. We are not entitled to get an answer, but the response above came out of nowhere.

[DavidAlfa]

Come on... there's a bug thread for every single Siglent product. Some have never been fixed.

Then meet Hantek products, Siglent will look perfect .
At work, I have a RF analyzer from Rigol which randomly resets everything, or measures completely wrong.
Set center freq, span, resolution... 10 minutes later it went back to 1GHz and default resolution.
Or when measuring armonics / floor noise... you get -70dBm, now leave it alone for 10 minutes and when coming back it reads -30dBm.
At first you blame the circuit, but when you test others that were already working... the analyzer is to blame.
Check everything, settings are correct.
Reboot, no difference.
Set defaults, reconfigure it... sometimes it will work... at 2nd or 3rd attempt. Luckly it will work for another 30 minutes.
Though I'm not discarding a hardware failure, perhabs a faulty relay in the signal path / attenuator block, or something like that, but I don't think so, that wouldn't randomly reset the configuration!

[ebastler]

It read more to me like a friendly jab. Or like when people reply with RTFM.

I read it as arrogant and unhelpful. And am still curious regarding the alleged further differences between the two product lines.

[tautech]

Then, there is higher price SDS1000X HD if want higher premium quality in this performance class (and 50 ohm inputs, bigger display and some other things. It is not display alone what rise weight over 50%... ).

Do you have information what these "other things" would be? Comparing the spec sheets of the 824X HD and the 1204X HD, the display size and 50 Ohm inputs were the only differences I noticed. (And the bigger box. ) EDIT: The 1000 series also has a second USB host port.

Thank you for further details!

Just as when measuring things with instruments, one should also prefer sufficient accuracy when reading or other way observing.

Quite.
So many consider themselves engineers but fail to accurately read datasheets.

[Performa01]

I don’t have either the SDS800X HD or the 1000 X HD.
All I can do is browse the Google-translated data sheets (and maybe use my experience).

Here are the differences to the SDS1000X HD that I’ve found so far:

SDS800X HD has no external trigger input.
SDS800X HD has no 50 ohm inputs.
SDS800X HD has no probe factor detection.
SDS800X HD has only 7” capacitive touch screen, but at the same resolution 1024 x 600.
SDS800X HD has less serial protocols: CAN-FD and FlexRay are missing.
SDS800X HD has only 2 USB host ports.

Triggers appear to be the same as even the SDS2000X HD (12 + serial).
Additional trigger goodies like holdoff by events or zone trigger are missing in both the SDS800X HD and SDS1000X HD.
Measurements are the same as SDS1000X HD, which in turn lacks just a single measurement compared to the SDS2000X HD.
Measurement statistics appear to be on par with SDS1000X HD and SDS2000X HD (buzzwords: histicons, trend and track plots).
Math appears to be identical and similarly advanced as on the SDS2000X HD.

Yet in my opinion the few differences are enough to make the SDS1000X HD very attractive in comparison. For me, the 50 ohm inputs and the larger screen alone would be worth it.

[Antonio90]

The ext trigger can be very useful too. But yeah, the 50Ohm path and the screen can be a deal-breaker. Thanks! The additional decodes don't really make much difference for me.

I'd be curious to know if there are more internal differences, but I'll have to wait for a teardown, as I cannot accurately read that in the datasheet.

[rf-loop]

EDIT: The 1000 series also has a second USB host port.

The 800 will also have this, like the 1104X-E on the back.

1000 have 3x USB host. One in back side and two in front panel.
800 have 2x USB host. One in back side and one in front panel. 
Both have 1x USB device in back side.
(example in case when use USB for external generator for FRA and want USB flash for save data and want also use mouse for control...
also some probes may use USB power )

1000 have ExtTrig
800  do not have.

1000 have probe detect
800 do not have

And of course 50ohm inputs and bigger screen.

Then 800 have less (CAN FD and FlexRay are missing) serial decoders than 1000

All based to officially published chinese data sheet, user manual and quick-guide what are available from Siglent domestic web sides.

And then also these differences in memory and wfm/s speed between 200MHz  and <200MHz SDS800X HD models.

oh... Performa01 was fast...

[ebastler]

SDS800X HD has no external trigger input.
SDS800X HD has no 50 ohm inputs.
SDS800X HD has no probe factor detection.
SDS800X HD has only 7” capacitive touch screen, but at the same resolution 1024 x 600.
SDS800X HD has less serial protocols: CAN-FD and FlexRay are missing.
SDS800X HD has only 2 USB host ports.

Thank you, that's a very helpful and concise summary. The big items (screen size and 50 Ohms), as well as the extra USB host port, I had already mentioned in my question about differences. But I had overlooked that the external trigger input is only offered in the 1000 series.

I do agree that the larger screen and the 50 Ohm inputs are very desirable indeed. Let's hope the 1000X HD will be priced attractively. So far, the larger screen has commanded a disproportionately high price (across all manufacturers) -- seems that it is seen as a key distinction between "entry level" and "lower middle class" scopes, with a corresponding step in market prices. Well, we will find out about the European and US prices eventually.

[Martin72]

seems that it is seen as a key distinction between "entry level" and "lower middle class" scopes, with a corresponding step in market prices

After all, you can immediately recognize visually that these are larger models.
Either way.