Siglent Entry Level 4 Channel Scopes - 12 bit is a No Brainer ?

[TomKatt]

I see the new SDS804X HD model is currently retailing for $439 US while the SDS1104X-E is listed for around $475. While the SDS1104X-E has a minor default BW advantage on paper (100Mhz vs 70Mhz), obviously that doesn't seem to matter much if you take hacks into account.  Rigol has discounted their DS1054Z so it's cheaper than their DHO804, but still in the same price category.

Since these new 12 bit models are so competitively priced to the existing 8 bit models, isn't it a fairly No-Brainer decision to go with the newer 12 bit models?  Beyond the improved resolution, I'm assuming the new 12 bitters also offer improved processing capabilities across the board...

Any reason to get an SDS1104X-E over the SDS804X HD?  Or a DS1054Z over a DHO804?

Edit - looking for general discussion on 8bit vs 12bit,  not looking to start a  Rigol vs Siglent battle.

[EvgenyG]

Any reason to get an SDS1104X-E over the SDS804X HD?  Or a DS1054Z over a DHO804?

Only as a back up scope and if you can get it cheap. Once you try these new 12bit scopes you, there will be no going back.

I think it's been summarised a number of times. Besides the amazing level of detail on a 12 bit scope, you also get:
- Faster aquisition speed
- Better waveform capture rate, I was able to see a glitchy signal MUCH faster than before
- Better bandwidth (after improvement I could trigger up to 780Mhz)
- Better noise floor (specs say 70uV, but it is better)
- Better sensitivity (0.5mv/div)
- More memory (up to 100Mpts)
- More math stuff (like really more)
- Hardware frequency counter - I LOVE IT (registers up to ~ 600Mhz)
- Screen quality is amazing, better resolution
- Capacitive touch screen (On 800X, steam deck screen protectors fit great)

P.S. I wish someone made an old vs new comparison video.

[KungFuJosh]

If you can buy a brand new computer with brand new tech, versus a 10 year old computer for around the same price, which would you buy?

[TomKatt]

If you can buy a brand new computer with brand new tech, versus a 10 year old computer for around the same price, which would you buy?

That's what I suspected - just seems odd that Siglent hasn't made bigger price variances between the old design and the new models.

[Fungus]

isn't it a fairly No-Brainer decision to go with the newer 12 bit models?

Yes.

It's not just the number of bits, everything about them is a huge step forwards.

(Both Rigol and Siglent)

Buying a new DS1054Z or SDS1104X-E for personal use today would be a huge mistake.

[Fungus]

That's what I suspected - just seems odd that Siglent hasn't made bigger price variances between the old design and the new models.

They'd have to sell the old ones at a loss.

[KungFuJosh]

They can't keep the SDS800X HD in stock. Supposedly that will be better in a few weeks. Until then, they can get away with the small price gap if somebody needs an entry level scope before the 12-bit stock becomes more stable.

I'd also guess the price of the SDS800X HD is lower than they were planning to release it, so thank Rigol for that. 😉

[TomKatt]

Just ordered mine from Saelig - emailed their sales dept and they say they have a few in stock ready to ship.  Well, one less than they had this morning lol.

The feature set on these new scopes from both Siglent and Rigol are astonishing - I never would have imagined a 4 channel scope with this many options for close to $400...  I think I paid close to that for my old 60Mhz Tek 2213 2 channel back in the 2000's.

[tautech]

That's what I suspected - just seems odd that Siglent hasn't made bigger price variances between the old design and the new models.

They'd have to sell the old ones at a loss.

Really, you know so little about the marketplace. 
There are so many X-E already sold to all market sectors and customers will want to keep using the same model for convenience as it suited their needs.
That's why we will still stock 4ch X-E.

Yet recognizing the attractiveness of SDS800X HD when we got a prerelease sample significant investment was made in these new 12bit models to offer as our new entry level range.

[Caliaxy]

That's what I suspected - just seems odd that Siglent hasn't made bigger price variances between the old design and the new models.

They'd have to sell the old ones at a loss.

Really, you know so little about the marketplace. 

I wouldn’t be surprised if the old ones are actually sold at a fair price but the new ones are sold at a loss.

[Fungus]

That's what I suspected - just seems odd that Siglent hasn't made bigger price variances between the old design and the new models.

They'd have to sell the old ones at a loss.

Really, you know so little about the marketplace. 

To make a "bigger price variance", ie. one that truly reflected features/value, they'd probably have to sell the old ones at a loss.

Obviously there's a residual market for replacing older units with identical ones, etc.

[Fungus]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the ... new ones are sold at a loss.

They make it up in volume, right?

[EvgenyG]

There are so many X-E already sold to all market sectors and customers will want to keep using the same model for convenience as it suited their needs.

Same reason people still buy those old boat anchors?

[Caliaxy]

I wouldn’t be surprised if the ... new ones are sold at a loss.

They make it up in volume, right?

Possibly, but still, they sell incredibly cheap, very likely at a loss (at least the lower-end models). They are obviously after grabbing the market, not after making profit. Once the own the market, things might change.

[TomKatt]

Possibly, but still, they sell incredibly cheap, very likely at a loss (at least the lower-end models). They are obviously after grabbing the market, not after making profit. Once the own the market, things might change.

As long as Rigol sells their DHO800 series at that $400 price point, I don't think that Siglent will own the market any more than they did before.  And while I'm sure sales volume plays a roll, it still baffles me how either company is able to provide this level of gear at this $400 price...  That seems to barely compensate for BOM costs, labor, R&D, engineering, programming etc - not to mention shipping halfway around the world and tariffs in the US.

Even more amazing is that 12bit has become the new 'entry level' standard (and to an extent 4 channels as well).

[Caliaxy]

Possibly, but still, they sell incredibly cheap, very likely at a loss (at least the lower-end models). They are obviously after grabbing the market, not after making profit. Once the own the market, things might change.

As long as Rigol sells their DHO800 series at that $400 price point, I don't think that Siglent will own the market any more than they did before.

They are not after Rigol, they are after the big guys…