Should I replace my Siglent SDS2014X Plus oscilloscope with SDS3014X HD?

[2N3055]

Regardless of the price, what benefits do you think I would gain from switching to the SDS3104X HD? I'm curious about your valuable opinions.

What do you want to gain?  the SDS3000X HD line looks very nice, but as far as functionality over the 2104X+ w/hacks it seems to me that the active probe connections, better UI (I'm assuming), somewhat lower front end noise w/ 12-bit ADC and increased BW (if you get that option) would be the main things you'd get.  If you aren't looking to buy the specialized Siglent probes that use the specific connector provided--or LeCroy probes with an adapter--then I'm not sure what you'd get.  With regular BNC connectors and passive probes, 500+ MHz seems to be enough scope for me.  I'm pretty sure a fully hacked SDS2104X+ is more useful than a better scope that I can't afford the options on.  I do use PA feature, for example.  The things that I'll admit I'd like to have are the gated measurements, the additional trigger modes and the 4 math channels with ERES/average/etc back in the acquisition menu rather than using up a math channel.  I assume the SDS2000X+ is that way because it is a bit short on processor power.

I'll note that the SDS3000X HD appears to have the same old 1024 x 600 screen and no direct video out.  A 12" Full-HD screen and HDMI out would impress me more.

I keep repeating that math channels have formula mode. Using ERES and 3 other functions together on single math channels is what you do. ERES in math is not a problem. ERES in hardware is faster (real time) but also gets applied to all channels.
There is also not only gated measurements but new Analysis Gate function that goes one step further.
CPU is faster, network too. 4Mpts FFT.

There are many upgrades.

And you bring up the good point. If your current scope is fully kitted out and does the job, why change what works..

[Sercan]

Regardless of the price, what benefits do you think I would gain from switching to the SDS3104X HD? I'm curious about your valuable opinions.

What do you want to gain?  the SDS3000X HD line looks very nice, but as far as functionality over the 2104X+ w/hacks it seems to me that the active probe connections, better UI (I'm assuming), somewhat lower front end noise w/ 12-bit ADC and increased BW (if you get that option) would be the main things you'd get.  If you aren't looking to buy the specialized Siglent probes that use the specific connector provided--or LeCroy probes with an adapter--then I'm not sure what you'd get.  With regular BNC connectors and passive probes, 500+ MHz seems to be enough scope for me.  I'm pretty sure a fully hacked SDS2104X+ is more useful than a better scope that I can't afford the options on.  I do use PA feature, for example.  The things that I'll admit I'd like to have are the gated measurements, the additional trigger modes and the 4 math channels with ERES/average/etc back in the acquisition menu rather than using up a math channel.  I assume the SDS2000X+ is that way because it is a bit short on processor power.

I'll note that the SDS3000X HD appears to have the same old 1024 x 600 screen and no direct video out.  A 12" Full-HD screen and HDMI out would impress me more.

Actually, I don't have any specific expectations. I'm considering purchasing the SDS3000X HD and exploring its capabilities. I'm curious about what others think about this idea. Currently, I own three oscilloscopes, but I intend to sell them all to fund the purchase of the SDS3000X HD, as I find myself not using the SDS1104X-E much anymore.

I completely agree with you. The improved screen resolution would be a significant advantage for me too.

As you told "A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people." 

[tautech]

I'm considering purchasing the SDS3000X HD and exploring its capabilities. I'm curious about what others think about this idea. Currently, I own three oscilloscopes, but I intend to sell them all to fund the purchase of the SDS3000X HD, as I find myself not using the SDS1104X-E much anymore.

Another rabbit hole to explore but be prepared for it to be deep.



We might lose member Sercan ...... 

[Sercan]

Another rabbit hole to explore but be prepared for it to be deep.
We might lose member Sercan ...... 

Yeah that's me! 

[Antonio90]

If the prices for an SDS2104X HD with the SDS2XHD-BND offer were to fall accordingly, I might become weak again. But that would be very very very unreasonable of me.

There are SDS2000X HD price changes coming but not as you might think.

Best advice I can offer is to get SDS2104X HD if you are interested in this platform.....
No further comment. 

My bet is that the 100MHz model will disappear.
Batterfly had it heavily discounted, and now it is not listed at all.

[Sercan]

Frankly, I think you are asking the wrong question. "Please give me some reasons to buy a new scope. (Again, less than a year after I got my current one.)" 

I would suggest that you focus on actually using your current equipment for a while. If you should run into resolution limitations (which the enhanced resolution mode in the X plus cannot work around), start thinking about a 12-bit scope. By the time you will also have learnt more about other features that are important to you, to guide your selection of a new scope.

EDIT: Oh, in case you cannot resist eventually: Get out the tape measure before you buy a 3000X HD (or a 2000 for that matter)! It's a bit taller than the X plus, and looking at the photo in your opening post, I am not sure it will fit into the current shelf space.

Okay, let's imagine you're a traveler with your car. Perhaps you already own a regular car. However, there's also the possibility of acquiring an F-segment car, such as a Mercedes S-Class or similar.

You can't fully exploit its speed potential on everyday streets. Nonetheless, on the German Autobahn (with no speed limit), you could unleash its capabilities, placing your trust in its performance.

In my situation, even though I'm not an F1 racer, I still enjoy the benefits of driving like any other driver, and I have complete confidence in the car's abilities, even at high speeds.

I am just a traveler with my car... 

[thephil]

I guess it depends.

In a totally unrelated discussion about chainsaws, I once saw a comment that said "If your saw has never been too small, it is too big.". I think there is some truth to this. On the other hand, an important part of the electronics hobby is playing with test gear. From that perspective, an upgrade can make sense, and I am certainly guilty of owning plenty of stuff I technically don't need.

[Antonio90]

Frankly, I think you are asking the wrong question. "Please give me some reasons to buy a new scope. (Again, less than a year after I got my current one.)" 

I would suggest that you focus on actually using your current equipment for a while. If you should run into resolution limitations (which the enhanced resolution mode in the X plus cannot work around), start thinking about a 12-bit scope. By the time you will also have learnt more about other features that are important to you, to guide your selection of a new scope.

EDIT: Oh, in case you cannot resist eventually: Get out the tape measure before you buy a 3000X HD (or a 2000 for that matter)! It's a bit taller than the X plus, and looking at the photo in your opening post, I am not sure it will fit into the current shelf space.

Okay, let's imagine you're a traveler with your car. Perhaps you already own a regular car. However, there's also the possibility of acquiring an F-segment car, such as a Mercedes S-Class or similar.

You can't fully exploit its speed potential on everyday streets. Nonetheless, on the German Autobahn (with no speed limit), you could unleash its capabilities, placing your trust in its performance.

In my situation, even though I'm not an F1 racer, I still enjoy the benefits of driving like any other driver, and I have complete confidence in the car's abilities, even at high speeds.

I am just a traveler with my car... 

We are talking a bit about luxury then. I honestly think the 2000X-HD is the top hobbyist general purpose oscilloscope, it is already quite a "luxurious" tool, or way better than necessary but still nice to have.

To take full advantage of the 3000X-HD you need (pretty expensive) probing solutions. I don't think it is a good buy for someone whose budget is actually the oscilloscope's price.

That being said, there are hobbyists that buy professional stuff way over their needed level. IE, tens of thousands on road bicycles, festool track saws, fishing or hunting equipment, Hilti drills, handmade luthier instruments, etc. I, myself, have tools with capabilities way over my skill level on quite a few areas.
Still, I wouldn't go over the 2000X-HD, as it seems to me it would only be nicer, and not actually more useful, but that's just me, it's a decision only you can make.

EDIT: that's probably a bit of an arbitrary limit, but when a scope needs higher spending on accesories than on itself, it's out of the question, for me. But, as a matter of fact, many of us are spoiled, having everything necessary for living, all the tools needed for our jobs and, on top of all that, an additional fully featured workspace just for pleasure.
So the difference is quantitative. Qualitatively speaking, it's all luxury anyway. I just think setting oneself limits is actually quite healthy.

[tautech]

I guess it depends.

In a totally unrelated discussion about chainsaws, I once saw a comment that said "If your saw has never been too small, it is too big.". I think there is some truth to this. On the other hand, an important part of the electronics hobby is playing with test gear. From that perspective, an upgrade can make sense, and I am certainly guilty of owning plenty of stuff I technically don't need.

Yawns 
Just 3 main saws in my stable and they each shine in one way or another…….a bit like scopes. 

[Antonio90]

I guess it depends.

In a totally unrelated discussion about chainsaws, I once saw a comment that said "If your saw has never been too small, it is too big.". I think there is some truth to this. On the other hand, an important part of the electronics hobby is playing with test gear. From that perspective, an upgrade can make sense, and I am certainly guilty of owning plenty of stuff I technically don't need.

Yawns 
Just 3 main saws in my stable and they each shine in one way or another…….a bit like scopes. 

Yeah, the right tool for the job is a sound mindset. But the 800-3000X-HD series from Siglent are all subsets of each higher model, AFAIK, all general purpose, and each subsequent scope a strict upgrade over the previous one (unless the size of the 800 is a plus). So, unless the 3000X-HD is sluggish or less useable, the right tool for the job doesn't apply here.

[KungFuJosh]

I have the SDS2504XP. It's capable of a lot more than I am. Would I still like a 3000X HD? Of course! I'd be more enthusiastic if it had full HD resolution (minimum), but I'm sure it's still a wonderful screen anyway. However, unless somebody dumps a bunch of money on my bench, I'll be sticking with the scope I have. 😉

[tautech]

I guess it depends.

In a totally unrelated discussion about chainsaws, I once saw a comment that said "If your saw has never been too small, it is too big.". I think there is some truth to this. On the other hand, an important part of the electronics hobby is playing with test gear. From that perspective, an upgrade can make sense, and I am certainly guilty of owning plenty of stuff I technically don't need.

Yawns 
Just 3 main saws in my stable and they each shine in one way or another…….a bit like scopes. 

Yeah, the right tool for the job is a sound mindset.

It's the ONLY mindset as neither an underpowered scope or saw for that matter will allow tackling of some tasks.

It's not just about feature set but also raw BW/horsepower.
2 tools for my biggest tasks are SDS6204A and 3120XP !
SDS7000A, not current but the new higher BW models coming are on my radar.......

[Antonio90]

I guess it depends.

In a totally unrelated discussion about chainsaws, I once saw a comment that said "If your saw has never been too small, it is too big.". I think there is some truth to this. On the other hand, an important part of the electronics hobby is playing with test gear. From that perspective, an upgrade can make sense, and I am certainly guilty of owning plenty of stuff I technically don't need.

Yawns 
Just 3 main saws in my stable and they each shine in one way or another…….a bit like scopes. 

Yeah, the right tool for the job is a sound mindset.

It's the ONLY mindset as neither an underpowered scope or saw for that matter will allow tackling of some tasks.

It's not just about feature set but also raw BW/horsepower.
2 tools for my biggest tasks are SDS6204A and 3120XP !
SDS7000A, not current but the new higher BW models coming are on my radar.......

None of those is being considered by the OP, and he wants to sell his SDS1104X-E, so doesn't seem to need a second oscilloscope.

He is quite obviously talking about a general purpose scope well enough suited for most jobs. My point is that, under the 3000X-HD, which he is considering, there is no better 'scope for any job in Siglent's lineup. And, over the 3000X-HD there is no relevant scope for the OP, as the budget doesn't allow it.

So, yeah, there is another middle of the road mindset. The right tool for the job, in this case, is the best tool for most jobs, at certain price.

[bdunham7]

My point is that, under the 3000X-HD, which he is considering, there is no better 'scope for any job in Siglent's lineup.

That's assuming he can also afford all of the relevant options and upgrades that he has on his lesser model.  If not, then a lesser but hackable model might be the better option.

[KungFuJosh]

What makes you think it can't be improved?

[Antonio90]

My point is that, under the 3000X-HD, which he is considering, there is no better 'scope for any job in Siglent's lineup.

That's assuming he can also afford all of the relevant options and upgrades that he has on his lesser model.  If not, then a lesser but hackable model might be the better option.

That is true. If he doesn't get to improve the 2000HD or the 3000HD, the 2000X plus will have more bandwidth.

[points2]

SDS7000A, not current but the new higher BW models coming are on my radar.......

Cool !
Anyway, here in the EU, lead time on the SDS7000 8-bit version are so long (example => https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Siglent-SDS7000A.html )
that, to me, it means : no buyers...

[slugrustle]

I'm pretty sure a fully hacked SDS2104X+ is more useful than a better scope that I can't afford the options on.  I do use PA feature, for example.  The things that I'll admit I'd like to have are the gated measurements, the additional trigger modes and the 4 math channels with ERES/average/etc back in the acquisition menu rather than using up a math channel.  I assume the SDS2000X+ is that way because it is a bit short on processor power.

I swear the SDS2000X+ has gated measurements. I've used the feature before, at least when the scope is stopped.  If I'm thinking of the right thing, it lets you set the start and end times of an interval over which the measurement is computed.  It's in section 18.9 of the manual stored on my computer locally (maybe not the latest version).  Excellent feature, by the way.  I was so happy when I discovered it.

[tautech]

SDS7000A, not current but the new higher BW models coming are on my radar.......

Cool !
Anyway, here in the EU, lead time on the SDS7000 8-bit version are so long (example => https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Siglent-SDS7000A.html )
that, to me, it means : no buyers...

Cough....
SDS7000A: Bandwidth up to 4 GHz, 12-bit ADC resolution

However this is what I'm watching:
https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sds7000a/

[points2]

Hi folks (& Sercan but I think you won't like this post)
here is my "different" feedback vs an alternative to a Siglent 2K+ hacked scope (given that I guess any 2k+ scope are full options & 500MHz BW, like mine...)

back to Sercan weird question about : which scope can beat my already "old" SDS2504XPlus scope ?
So far, Sercan did not explain what are his needs etc  but have a high budget : so, he's a jerk. (if I'm wrong, Sercan, explain your work & I apologize, of course)

Back to the topic :
A few weeks ago, I was in the same cogniive brain fog : "I need a more precise "time-domain" "analyzer", so : what's better than my Siglent 2k+ ?
My basic question here was : to trigger higher speed signals.
then,
the anwser is all over the place, whatever the seller  => more BW = price surges like hell vs GHz BW (given that I have in mind only => "rise time", liked to "BW"

I suppposed that if someone is looking for more "GHz BW for bucks", he's dealing with "high speed" signal
=> the right answer is :
- I keep my 2k+
- I buy the GigaWave sampling scope (only 3kEur)

as simple & "cheap" as that...

unless I missed smth...

[slugrustle]

I don't think Sercan is a jerk.  It seems like he's tempted by a shiny new scope that just came out.  It is tempting... more bandwidth and more resolution and the price is high but not insanely high.

My take on this is that it you don't lose anything by waiting.  If the equipment you have now meets your needs, keep using it.  You can always buy the SDS3000X HD later.  By that time, more reviews will be available, and maybe more of the bugs will be fixed.  These things always have bugs when first released.

[2N3055]

Hi folks (& Sercan but I think you won't like this post)
here is my "different" feedback vs an alternative to a Siglent 2K+ hacked scope (given that I guess any 2k+ scope are full options & 500MHz BW, like mine...)

back to Sercan weird question about : which scope can beat my already "old" SDS2504XPlus scope ?
So far, Sercan did not explain what are his needs etc  but have a high budget : so, he's a jerk. (if I'm wrong, Sercan, explain your work & I apologize, of course)

Back to the topic :
A few weeks ago, I was in the same cogniive brain fog : "I need a more precise "time-domain" "analyzer", so : what's better than my Siglent 2k+ ?
My basic question here was : to trigger higher speed signals.
then,
the anwser is all over the place, whatever the seller  => more BW = price surges like hell vs GHz BW (given that I have in mind only => "rise time", liked to "BW"

I suppposed that if someone is looking for more "GHz BW for bucks", he's dealing with "high speed" signal
=> the right answer is :
- I keep my 2k+
- I buy the GigaWave sampling scope (only 3kEur)

as simple & "cheap" as that...

unless I missed smth...

You missed manners. Why calling a jerk a person that did nothing wrong to you, ever. You don't even know him...
Also he did not insult anybody. He does not have to explain his personal decisions about his life or justify anything to you or me or anybody. And you do have to apologize, for your manner.

To make note, I also think about equipment (and all material stuff in life in general) in terms of usability and like to be rational about it.

In my first post, I respectfully (I hope) tried to say to OP that it is lots of money and tried to help him be "more reasonable" (according to my world view!).
After he explained his "world view" all I could do was wish him good luck and try to help with technical questions.

Like someone said above, I personally don't understand people that buy houses with 8 rooms they will never use, 17 hand made guitars that cost more than a house but rarely play them, buy 100000 € cars to go buy groceries with it.....
But only because I'm like that and I don't understand people that are different than me, that doesn't mean I get to tell them how to live their life. Or call them names.

I have a neighbor that seems to "collect" expensive cars. I'm sure most of his home budget goes to that. I would never do that, but if that makes him happy.. It is his life.

It's nice to be nice. Live and let live.

[KungFuJosh]

Minus 2 points for name calling.

[Sercan]

That's assuming he can also afford all of the relevant options and upgrades that he has on his lesser model.  If not, then a lesser but hackable model might be the better option.

That's a good point.

[Sercan]

Hi folks (& Sercan but I think you won't like this post)
here is my "different" feedback vs an alternative to a Siglent 2K+ hacked scope (given that I guess any 2k+ scope are full options & 500MHz BW, like mine...)

back to Sercan weird question about : which scope can beat my already "old" SDS2504XPlus scope ?
So far, Sercan did not explain what are his needs etc  but have a high budget : so, he's a jerk. (if I'm wrong, Sercan, explain your work & I apologize, of course)

Wow! Looks like we've got an Einstein among us.

If you can label people like me as a "jerk," you must possess the intelligence and ethic to do so.

I suppose by stating your opinion in this manner, are you expecting our submission to you like the sun god Ra? I didn't quite get where you're going with this definition.

Anyway, I don't need your apologies as your definitions... 

Back to the topic :
A few weeks ago, I was in the same cogniive brain fog : "I need a more precise "time-domain" "analyzer", so : what's better than my Siglent 2k+ ?
My basic question here was : to trigger higher speed signals.
then,
the anwser is all over the place, whatever the seller  => more BW = price surges like hell vs GHz BW (given that I have in mind only => "rise time", liked to "BW"

I suppposed that if someone is looking for more "GHz BW for bucks", he's dealing with "high speed" signal
=> the right answer is :
- I keep my 2k+
- I buy the GigaWave sampling scope (only 3kEur)

as simple & "cheap" as that...

unless I missed smth...

I'm not a professional. 12-bit high resolution will help me capture fine details. Since I'm not an pro, I prefer not to be misled by the values I see on my measuring device. After all, it's just a "tool" to assist me. I am just looking for better "tool". I have many reason, but isn't only 12 bits reason enough?

I wish I were rich, but I'm not. Nevertheless, I haven't seen anyone become richer or poorer by saving on the price difference we're talking about here. I simply don't care about extra spending $200-300 annually for a device I can use for the next 5 or more years. That's why I mentioned it in the first message:

Regardless of the price, what benefits do you think I would gain from switching to the SDS3104X HD? I'm curious about your valuable opinions.