new Rigol DSA 7.5GHz

[Macbeth]

i'm still hopeful someone else with come out with something.

You can already get PC based analyzers that do up to 6ghz for $1.
Simply adding an internal embedded PC, screen and knobs should be possible for the top end of $2k

But they're not actually any good.

They're actually not too bad.

Just a few weeks back someone on the forum was saying how people are doing some pretty advanced stuff with the signal hound SA
https://www.signalhound.com/

6GHz for $1 is a bit rich for me. Can they do them for 50 cents in bulk?

[videobruce]

Seems to be  epidemic of cheapskates here.   
Probably the same ones that drive $50k-$75k cars and spend the same amount on a kitchen.

[Psi]

i dunno, i guess i just feel that a lot of spectrum analyzers are priced crazy high just because they can be.
I know the high-ghz parts are expensive but still, they seem overpriced simply because people will pay that.

It seems like a lot of work goes into picking custom highspec parts for a spectrum analyzer.
Making it as accurate and as feature rich as possible with no effort going into making it affordable.

Part of the problem is likely demand

[echen1024]

i dunno, i guess i just feel that a lot of spectrum analyzers are priced crazy high just because they can be.
I know the high-ghz parts are expensive but still, they seem overpriced simply because people will pay that.

It seems like a lot of work goes into picking custom highspec parts for a spectrum analyzer.
Making it as accurate and as feature rich as possible with no effort going into making it affordable.

Part of the problem is likely demand

Test Equipment is not exactly a volume market. The people who really need SA's and VNA's don't give a shit about cost.

[Psi]

Test Equipment is not exactly a volume market. The people who really need SA's and VNA's don't give a shit about cost.

Yeah,
All except us

[videobruce]

The people who really need SA's and VNA's don't give a shit about cost.

Probably the same ones that I posted about previously. 

Yes, they are overpriced, especially these no-names from China.

[K6TR]

This morning I received an email from Rigol announcing 2 new Spectrum Analyzers.

They are follow-ons to the immensely successful DSA-815. They are the DSA-832 and the DSA-875. They are packaged in the same case as the DSA-815 with the same key layout as their predecessor. As the number scheme implies the new units coverage will extend to 3.2 Ghz and 7.5 Ghz. The performance for the two units also shows substantial gains. -161dbm DANL for both units compared to -135dbm for the 815. These figures are substantially improved over the -148dbm DANL figure advertised for the DSA-1030 Series. There are also substantial performance improvements in the contributed phase noise for the new analyzers over the 1030s.

The prices for the 832 and 875 units have taken a big jump upward. The price of the DSA-832 without a tracking generator is $6500 and the DSA-875 minus the tracking generator is is 8 Grand.

The price for the tracking generator has also gone up.

The DSA-815 tracking generator still remains at $300
The price for the 1030 series tracking generator is $800
The price for both the 832 and 875 Tracking generator is $1600

Thus the prices for the DSA-832TG is $8100 and the DSA-875TG $9590

It appears that Rigol's 1020/1030 Series Spec Analyzers are not long for the world. Both of the new Analyzers out perform the top-end 1030s and the 815 represents better value than the 1020. The 832 and 875 are not personal/hobbyist Spec Analyzers these are for business. If the decision by a business has been made to purchase a Spec Analyzer they will pay for the best and in this case it will be the 832 or 875. I can't see the 1030 remaining in that environment.

[videobruce]

Your pricing is incorrect on the 1030 TG.

Anyway, I disagree with your forecast simply because each series serves a different purpose. The 800's are bench only, the 1000's are both with a battery option which provides far better flexibility. I will say, the 1020 doesn't seem to have a place considering the price different over the 815 for 500MHz more spectrum, you might as well go with the 1030.

I closely looked over the specs of the new 832 and the 1030A (the 'A' version);
The 832 is $1800 more w/ the TG,
SSB phase noise is -98dBc vs 88,
2-3 dB less DANL (but maintains it better above 2.5GHz unlike the 1030A that drops 12db),
max reference level is +20dBm vs +30,
10Hz RBW vs 100Hz,
TOI is 5dB higher,
preamp gain is 3 db less,
slightly smaller size, less weight and slightly less power consumption.

Is the 832 worth $1800 more?? 

[colinbeeforth]

Hi Psi,

Please, plan out a spectrum analyser for 7.5GHz, check on the price of a decent YIG oscillator and the plumbing needed.  There is no conspiracy of manufacturers slavering to grab our wallets with their overpriced equipment.  The parts cost for a quality specan is very high.  Microwave parts are expensive because of the need for precision machining.  Look at a microwave parts catalogue, check out the precision connector quality control kit, see the micrometer and precision machined jigs.  It needs very high mechanical precision just to make a single connector that will give low VSWR and make measurement possible.  Microwave circuits are all ceramics, leadless components, gold and microscope assembly.  Nothing cheap there.

If you look up some old HP application notes on spectrum analysers, you'll realise that manufacturers aren't price gouging, it's very expensive the built a specan with a low enough noise floor to be useful.  If you read some old manuals, buy an old specan and refurbish the thing, you'll start to understand the requirements and why they cost what they do.

We are very lucky today, even 20 year old solid state gear still works well and is well worth repairing and refurbishing for amateur use.  I don't think we've ever had it so good with lots of low cost cheap older test equipment available these days.  If you get into the forums that deal with older gear, you'll quickly learn what is really needed to make a usable working instrument.  Building one yourself is possible, but hard work.  You'll use up heaps of your leisure time.  If you find an older piece of gear and refurbish it, you'll be using it at a very reasonable price.

Cheers, Colin
Melbourne

[videobruce]

I don't dispute the cost of 20 & 30 year old equipment. Considering what they sold for and the way they were built (along with the enormous weight and power consumption) they are a 'deal', but not everyone has the experience (or time as you stated) to correctly refurbish one.

But, since you brought up the subject, what happens when specific, non common, major components go bad, the manufacture has no replacement parts and you can't find any shop that has them?

[echen1024]

The people who really need SA's and VNA's don't give a shit about cost.

Probably the same ones that I posted about previously. 

Yes, they are overpriced, especially these no-names from China.

But if you think about it, how much of the market do we represent. Granted, we are a lot of Rigol's user base, and yes, these SAs are much too expensive for their purpose.

[videobruce]

I understand the lack of demand, it's specialized. Even the 815 wouldn't make it to WalMart, which may be a good thing.

[K6TR]

Hi Psi,

Please, plan out a spectrum analyser for 7.5GHz, check on the price of a decent YIG oscillator and the plumbing needed.  There is no conspiracy of manufacturers slavering to grab our wallets with their overpriced equipment.  The parts cost for a quality specan is very high.  Microwave parts are expensive because of the need for precision machining.  Look at a microwave parts catalogue, check out the precision connector quality control kit, see the micrometer and precision machined jigs.  It needs very high mechanical precision just to make a single connector that will give low VSWR and make measurement possible.  Microwave circuits are all ceramics, leadless components, gold and microscope assembly.  Nothing cheap there.

If you look up some old HP application notes on spectrum analysers, you'll realise that manufacturers aren't price gouging, it's very expensive the built a specan with a low enough noise floor to be useful.  If you read some old manuals, buy an old specan and refurbish the thing, you'll start to understand the requirements and why they cost what they do.

We are very lucky today, even 20 year old solid state gear still works well and is well worth repairing and refurbishing for amateur use. I don't think we've ever had it so good with lots of low cost cheap older test equipment available these days.  If you get into the forums that deal with older gear, you'll quickly learn what is really needed to make a usable working instrument.  Building one yourself is possible, but hard work.  You'll use up heaps of your leisure time.  If you find an older piece of gear and refurbish it, you'll be using it at a very reasonable price.

Cheers, Colin
Melbourne

That depends on what you want to do with it Colin. And how reliable you want the Analyzer to be.

I looked long and hard at purchasing a used Tek 492/494 before buying a Rigol DSA-815. You know what I found ? I was able to dig up some data on the internet from an RF Tech that did service work for Tek. He said that Tek rushed the implementation of SMT Components (which was new technology at the time) on the later 492s and early 494s. The components on those units are now drifting out of spec. This conjures up the image in my mind of a unit that will become a "Repair Shop Queen" that will call for extensive repairs every time it is sent in for recalibration. Then I looked at the prices charged by Service Depots. Reputable shops won't even look at analyzer for under 500 bucks. Yes you can do that stuff yourself but you need a thorough understanding of the theory of operation of the analyzer and why the manufacturer chose the topology he used. Before you have that type of understanding you will need at least 2 working units plus a couple of units that you can cannibalize for parts and a Service Manual. Then one must consider laying out the money to stock up on CRTs. It's a matter of time before they are no longer manufactured and the existing stock is depleted. If you are prepared to deal with that kind of inconvenience a 1980s vintage analyzer is a bargain. But if you need to rely on it I would much rather go with a new Rigol. Caveat Emptor

[videobruce]

^ Thank you. ^ 
These calibration places really love old equipment. 

I will say, in spite of cost, buying a CRT scope (SA, o'scope etc.) is really pushing things.