And the years of historical experience of these manufacturers are still worthy of respect.
Keysight and Lecroy have separately saved parameters for each trigger type, which means the trigger type is the main one, this is a common practice within the industry.Common practice... "we have always done it like this". No Innovation, no progress. This suggestion could be implemented as an option so users change decide if they like it or not.At the same time, the software needs to maintain consistency.When i just change the channel on trigger edge, then the level of it is remembered for each channel. So this works like my suggestion. But this is inconsistent, and the level should be saved on the trigger type.
Add two buttons, "Save Trigger info" and "Recall Trigger info", and then...Why buttons? My solution does this automatically. Its just like other settings on every (almost) device, that just remembers the setting that you set up. My suggestion does this for every channel, so you can quickly just change the channel to trigger on another channel without setting everything up again...
I just looked at Lecroy and it's a bit like what you said. It records the trigger source and trigger coupling, but some parameters such as "limit range", "Upper level", "Lower Level",etc have not been saved.I haven't understood the logic behind this yet. Why are some parameters saved and some not.
So both methods are reasonable, Siglent is closer to keysight.
The SDS800X HD digital channel is an independent system and does not support search, making it impossible to achieve pattern search.
Perhaps an integrated digital channel product can achieve mixed pattern search.
I just looked at Lecroy and it's a bit like what you said. It records the trigger source and trigger coupling, but some parameters such as "limit range", "Upper level", "Lower Level",etc have not been saved.I haven't understood the logic behind this yet. Why are some parameters saved and some not.
So both methods are reasonable, Siglent is closer to keysight.
No, Siglent is just the opposite of lecroy then. Every parameter is saved for the trigger type, except trigger level. This i would call inconsistent. This is, what people will confuse, if they are not working with the scope every day.
Just think about this:
Why dont you want to give each channel its own private trigger settings (for each "simple" trigger), when each channel (signal) has its own characteristics? You already do this on the trigger level for each channel!
There are other topics, like roof repair for instance, we still did not have talked about...
The SDS800X HD digital channel is an independent system and does not support search, making it impossible to achieve pattern search.
Perhaps an integrated digital channel product can achieve mixed pattern search.
Is that so? Not having any Search function in digital data would be a disappointment. I was aware that the independent digital subsystem means that there is no History function. But how about taking a single long capture, and then setting search markers within that frame?
I cannot try this, since I don't have the SLA1016 so far. I came across this question while trying to decide whether I should get the Siglent add-on or rather a separate USB logic analyser. If there is no pattern (state-based) analysis at all, and essentially no analysis of captured soignals beyond the decoders, that is a significant limitation of Siglent's solution in my opinion.
Why would that be disappointment?
Did anybody ever promised you search?
Is it in a datasheet?
Did someone lied to you it has it?
There is no search on decoded data.
Why would that be disappointment?
Did anybody ever promised you search?
Is it in a datasheet?
Did someone lied to you it has it?
I was promised a Search function in the datasheet, and I was promised an option for 16 channels of digital data. If the Search function does not work on the digital data, the datasheet should explicitly mention that limitation.
Otherwise we are in DHO900 land: "Yes, you get 1.2 GSa/s sampling rate. Yes, you get 16 digital channels. [Psst, you don't get both at the same time, but we are not saying.]" Call it specsmanship if you want to be kind, or call it lying by omission.QuoteThere is no search on decoded data.
That's not what I asked for. I asked for Search on raw digital data (while a decoder may or may not be enabled in parallel).
To me it seems, there are 3 ways:
- Leave it like it always has been (and stay inconsistent with the trigger level in this case)
- Save trigger settings (for every simple trigger) on each channel (as this is done with the trigger level already)
- Save all trigger settings on the trigger type (including trigger level, to be consistent - but users have to get used to)
Edit: Oh shoot, it is in the datasheet, kind of. The sources for Search are stated as CH1..CH4 and History. I stand corrected; I had gone by Performa01's review thread only
I agree with your conclusion, either completely independent or modified simultaneously.
I think there should be more than one way. If there is an option, it would be a good solution because it can attract users of Lecroy, which is good to the manufacturer. In the personalized settings, you can set whether the trigger parameters is modified simultaneously. The priority may be relatively low.
if(trigger_type == A){ // simple trigger
if(option_use_global_settings){
*read settings from global trigger type A;*
}
else{
check_channel(){
case 1: read settings from channel 1 for trigger_type A;
case 2: read settings from channel 2 for trigger_type A;
...
}
}
}
else if(trigger_type == X){ // complex trigger
*read settings from trigger_type X;*
}
Oh, the irony of large effort to make triggering easier to use by adding dozen of new configuration settings..........
Making scope even more confusing and harder to use...
Bravo.
I agree: An option is always good! So anyone can be pleased, and not only users from Lecroy ;-).
This might be asked a bit too much, but i suggest it anyway:
Make option for each setting. (Can be limited to only a few common options) (global means over all simple triggers of the same type / individual means settings from each channel trigger setting):
- use global/individual slope/polarity
- use global/individual holdoff type and time
- use global/individual coupling
- use global/individual noise reduction
But id say, just go with one option for each trigger (or all triggers).
Making scope even more confusing and harder to use...
Making scope even more confusing and harder to use...
Just RTFM and then you will be fine.
Only real bug [eTobey] reported was holdoff with edge trigger... We, other users, thank you for that.
8. Math Function dialog automatically closes after channel change. -- eTobey
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5426099/#msg5426099
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5414804/#msg5414804
9. Trigger holdoff fails. -- eTobey
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5424071/#msg5424071
10. SMB Client does not autoconnect when DHCP. -- eTobey
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5417699/#msg5417699
11. History frame and intensity will change simultaneously. -- eTobey
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5424257/#msg5424257
12. Sequence is restart when menus are opened and closed. -- eTobey
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5426579/#msg5426579
13. Scale number overlaying others. -- eTobey
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5426687/#msg5426687
Only real bug [eTobey] reported was holdoff with edge trigger... We, other users, thank you for that.
You obviously don't like each other much, but we should honour the facts. There are several more entries in electronics hobbyist's list which go back to eTobey's findings, and which pretty clearly describe software behaviour which was not intended. eTobey found quite a few bugs over the first few days of using the scope -- I'm glad that there are not more users who identify more issues at the same rate...Quote8. Math Function dialog automatically closes after channel change. -- eTobey
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5426099/#msg5426099
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5414804/#msg5414804
9. Trigger holdoff fails. -- eTobey
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5424071/#msg5424071
10. SMB Client does not autoconnect when DHCP. -- eTobey
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5417699/#msg5417699
11. History frame and intensity will change simultaneously. -- eTobey
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5424257/#msg5424257
12. Sequence is restart when menus are opened and closed. -- eTobey
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5426579/#msg5426579
13. Scale number overlaying others. -- eTobey
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds800x-hd-bugswanted-features/msg5426687/#msg5426687
I'm not trying to shut up anybody. I just wish there was less histrionics, that's all.
I'm not trying to shut up anybody. I just wish there was less histrionics, that's all.
There are two sides to this. Please take a moment to imagine how frustrating it is when every single bug you report is an uphill battle: "No, not true." -- "You must describe this much better for us to even care." -- "Ok, you are right, but it's unimportant and just an annoynance."
If you have to go through six (!) clicks to re-establish the SMB connection every time you boot the scope -- how is that not a bug? I would have stopped using SMB on day 2 if I had not found the workaround. If the Math dialog kicks you out, seemingly at random, in the middle of your actively changing the settings -- how is that not a bug? If the universal knob suddenly controls two things at once, dimming the trance intensity as you step through frames -- how is that not a bug?
And I won't even get started about feature suggestions. It's totally fine to respond by explaining why you think something is not a good idea and has undesirable side effects, of course. But the following responses are not helpful: "You must be a total noob." "You must be an old man, stuck in his CRT user habits." "RTFM!" "Let me explain to you how R&D works."
Yes, I also hope we can discuss apparent bugs or more-or-less-worthwhile feature ideas in a calm and constructive manner. But that takes not only a level-headed submitter of such reports, but also a fair and receptive audience.
But this particular person is baiting me all the time. And you try to present it like I should suck it up and be a better man?
But this particular person is baiting me all the time. And you try to present it like I should suck it up and be a better man?
No. Just asking you to realize that you are contributing to a pretty equal extent. -- Anyway, I have no further ideas how we can fully sort this out. Probably a "frozen conflict" is the best we can hope for.