SDS800X HD Wanted Features

[2N3055]

Difference can be DNS, for instance.

DNS has nothing to do with it! Google DNS, what it actually is.

Again, rude, abrasive, vulgarian. Go to shop, buy yourself manners...

I knew what DNS was before you were born.

Let me teach you, because you seem to understood nothing from "University of Google".

If NTP server is defined on scope with hostname and not with IP address, and if scope is not set correctly (if DHCP server is not configured correctly for instance) then hostname will not be resolved to IP and will not connect.
Also, if DNS that scope is trying to connect to is slow responding things can timeout if timings are too aggressive.

And since I use IP for NTP anyways, I didn't notice you cannot enter hostname anyways.
Which means I made a mistake about mentioning DNS usage.

But you couldn't point to my mistake politely.
Noooo, you, all giddy, readily jumped to opportunity to insult me again and again.
Which, as time goes by, seems like a mission to you.

I have been patient so far.
But from now on, I will start reporting you. It is a violation of forum rules.
After enough strikes, you will be banned.
You will not be the first one.

[RAPo]

I have updated it to the latest FW.

This was all done in default factory setting, except for turning on channel 2 and enter the NTP  settings.

What is your firmware version?

If it is not up-to-date, update it.

[eTobey]

Can you post a picture? There are other versions shown too.

[eTobey]

Again, rude, abrasive, vulgarian. Go to shop, buy yourself manners...

I Asked before what there was, that you find "rude, abrasive,...", but you did not answer.

FACT: I did google for myself to not write wrong things. And i also looked at his image again to make sure to not confuse anyone.
Why do get people offende by everything these days?

BTW. When i was born, there was no such thing as "DNS".   

[eTobey]

I knew what DNS was before you were born.

Let me teach you, because you seem to understood nothing from "University of Google".

I call this rude! You dont know how old i am. You see me as a youngster? You want to teach me from up there on your horse?

[2N3055]

I knew what DNS was before you were born.

Let me teach you, because you seem to understood nothing from "University of Google".

I call this rude! You dont know how old i am. You see me as a youngster? You want to teach me from up there on your horse?

In immortal words of You 

[eTobey]

Suggestion:
When having acquired a sequence, and choosing navigate. You always have to select type "history" over and over again, if you have made a new sequence.

Expected behaviour:
Remember last type to navigate, and switch to it, if available.

Further suggestion:
- Have field "frame" automatically being activated so it can be easily changed.
- Create 3 Options:
1. "Switch to first frame after sequence acquired"
2. "remember frame No. from last sequence acquire"
3. "Switch to last frame after sequence acquired"
 

[eTobey]

In immortal words of You 

I can cope with that. I dont find smilys rude.   

[2N3055]

Suggestion:
When having acquired a sequence, and choosing navigate. You always have to select type "history" over and over again, if you have made a new sequence.

Expected behaviour:
Remember last type to navigate, and switch to it, if available.

Further suggestion:
- Have field "frame" automatically being activated so it can be easily changed.
- Create 3 Options:
1. "Switch to first frame after sequence acquired"
2. "remember frame No. from last sequence acquire"
3. "Switch to last frame after sequence acquired"
 

There seem to be two schools of thought here:

- There are those that really love their Brymen BM869S mulitmeter because it remembers last state you worked in.
  They think it saves them time.

- There are those that really hate their Brymen BM869S mulitmeter because it remembers last state you worked in.
  They hate fact that they never know in what state particular function will be when they enter the menu. They prefer Fluke 87V that always resets to defaults and always behave the same, not based on previous history.

This is real life example.

Who is right?
Both are right for themselves...

[ebastler]

There seem to be two schools of thought here:

- There are those that really love their Brymen BM869S mulitmeter because it remembers last state you worked in.
  They think it saves them time.

- There are those that really hate their Brymen BM869S mulitmeter because it remembers last state you worked in.
  They hate fact that they never know in what state particular function will be when they enter the menu. They prefer Fluke 87V that always resets to defaults and always behave the same, not based on previous history.

This is real life example.

Who is right?
Both are right for themselves...

Agree, there is probably no "true" way of doing this.

The Siglent scopes take a mixed approach too -- there are many settings they do remember. Including some where it is counter-intuitive to me why they behave like that: e.g. each trigger mode remembering the channel it was last used with, so changing the trigger mode will implicitly change the channel. But I am sure there are other users who find that very useful...

I can adjust to some extent, as I have to do with every consumer device, computing device etc. As mentioned before, the thing not to do (in my opinion) is to make the scope behavior configurable with option switches for each and every one of such aspects.

[eTobey]

The Siglent scopes take a mixed approach too -- there are many settings they do remember. Including some where it is counter-intuitive to me why they behave like that: e.g. each trigger mode remembering the channel it was last used with, so changing the trigger mode will implicitly change the channel. But I am sure there are other users who find that very useful...

This is what makes it a bit tricky to get used to it. Some stuff gets saved, other stuff that should, gets not saved.

I dont mind not having the 3 options, but it is really annoying to do 3 clicks after every sequence. And without a margin around those menu entrys you run in to the risk of accidently activating that curve in the background every time! I would not expect this from a better priced scope.

But in the case of triggers:
That one is very annoying. One would probably try to get a persistant trigger with many trigger types. But changing the source all the time is a pain in the a***. If you forget this one time, you get confused again. 

[tautech]

But in the case of triggers:
That one is very annoying. One would probably try to get a persistant trigger with many trigger types. But changing the source all the time is a pain in the a***. If you forget this one time, you get confused again. 

Why ?
In plain sight is the Trigger box indicating which channel it's assigned to, AC or DC coupled, type, falling or rising and the level it's set to.

Forget to just look at what's staring you in the face ? 

[rf-loop]

Suggestion:
When having acquired a sequence, and choosing navigate. You always have to select type "history" over and over again, if you have made a new sequence.

Of course, this is a bit clumsy in situations where one continuous laboratory session has to repeatedly repeat the same operation dozens of times in a row.

But, if the "Navigate" function is not used for several days or the oscilloscope has several users, it would be wise to start from some kind of baase setup for several functions.
(yes now it bit messy what it remember and what not in different situations. (naturallu there can be "keep/forget" selection in every meny and setting but then there are perhaps many other demands what need add to menu system and soon if all is added...It puffs up like bun dough. Sometimes "less may give more usability in end of game" )

I usually don't use the "navigate" function when viewing either the history produced by Sequence Recording or the history produced by normal mode.
Instead of Navigate, I use History.

On top of that, if I were to repeatedly look at the history of normal mode so that I stop the oscilloscope - I look and scroll through the history and start again and after a while I look at the history again. The "History" menu can remain continuously visible. Just there in the "History" menu  press On and the oscilloscope starts recording history again and when you press Off, after that you can directly browse the individual segments (waveworms) in the history buffer again.

Unfortunately, this does not (fully) work when the operating mode is "Sequence". You can start a new Sequence recording by selecting (in History menu) On (but only in continuous sequence mode, not in single sequence mode) and by selecting Off, it will stop exactly at the segment that was going when you pressed Off.
In many situations, this is still usable even when use Sequence mode.

Very usable in normal mode (runn, stop and look inside history...run again...stop and look... just only keeping History menu open.
(The History menu has the same navigation as Navigate, with the difference that the navigation in the History menu is always based on "Frame" aka segment.

[rf-loop]

But in the case of triggers:
That one is very annoying. One would probably try to get a persistant trigger with many trigger types. But changing the source all the time is a pain in the a***. If you forget this one time, you get confused again. 

Please explain what you mean.

-----------

I also have one friendly recommendation.
Would it be too much to ask if you spent, say, one intensive week and learned how to use this oscilloscope as it is? And not so that you have usage patterns and expectations of how the functions should work and then you should change all those that don't go the way you assume they should. After all, we are many different people with different expectations and experiences and possibly learned ways. It would become an extremely confusing and difficult-to-manage device if all the functions were to suit everyone's taste. I think that when you buy a car, after that you learn how to use its different things and adapt to it, pretty soon you get used to using it even though it feels different from the previous one at first.

In learning, you have to remember both learning new things and habits AND, very important, also unlearning some things. Each of the latter is sometimes very important. And sometimes laborious and slow, depending on how deep the old habits are rooted in the "cores".

I myself have encountered this often. Sometimes I used a lot of Tek oscilloscopes and other devices. Then when I had to use HP oscilloscopes... at first I felt that these were working completely wrong. Until the old dog learned new ways.

I haven't had any trouble adapting to using, for example, the SDS800X HD now, any more than the SDS2000X HD or SDS3000X HD, even though I've used a huge number of completely different oscilloscopes for about 60 years.

Of course, there are mistakes to be corrected, as well as things to be developed. But the development has to be done with extreme consideration and taking into account many (!) more variables, etc. than initially comes to mind.

There is also the fact that it is simply not possible to make something like, for example, an oscilloscope with a user interface that satisfies everyone. Some users just have to either adapt to the ones they don't like or find a more suitable one. The same goes for all tech gadgets, really.

One important point must always be kept in mind. Repairing the intact is not always wise. Those who think that an intact device is broken or working well should act differently, maybe they should change their perception or at least question the need for change.

[ebastler]

But in the case of triggers:
That one is very annoying. One would probably try to get a persistant trigger with many trigger types. But changing the source all the time is a pain in the a***. If you forget this one time, you get confused again. 

Please explain what you mean.

Since I brought up the "each trigger mode remembers its channel" example a couple of posts before, I'll take the liberty to chime in.

As mentioned, for me this design choice in the scope software is also somewhat counter-intuitive. I regularly find myself in a situation where I see, for example: "Oh, Edge trigger is not giving me stable triggering with this signal -- let's switch to Pulse triggering". But I want to continue to trigger on the same input channel then. So the fact that the Pulse trigger remembers a different channel (namely the one I have used it with the previous day), is not helpful here; and if I overlook the automatic change of channel, things can get confusing.

There may be situations where one wants to repeatedly switch between "edge trigger from CH1" and "pulse trigger from CH3". That's where the Siglent design choice will be helpful -- but in my experience these situations are few and far between.  I acknowldege that this may be different for some other users: There must be a reason why Siglent chose specifically to remember separate channels per trigger mode; this does not happen "by accident". I would love to hear about use cases where that trigger behaviour is helpful!

[eTobey]

Of course, this is a bit clumsy in situations where one continuous laboratory session has to repeatedly repeat the same operation dozens of times in a row.

....

Yes, history is indeed only 2 touchscreen clicks, in comparision to 4 with navigate. But if my recomendations would be in place, you would just hit the navigate button.

For more users (If you take a PC program for example):
If you open a file, then this folder is probably remembered. This is good, because often you work in the same folder. And if another user comes, then fine, he can choose a different folder then.

If you talk about several users, and some kind of base setup, than everything could be base setup, especially the triggers?

Your description about history sounded good, until you mentioned "sequence"...

[ebastler]

But in the case of triggers:
That one is very annoying. One would probably try to get a persistant trigger with many trigger types. But changing the source all the time is a pain in the a***. If you forget this one time, you get confused again. 

Why ?
In plain sight is the Trigger box indicating which channel it's assigned to, AC or DC coupled, type, falling or rising and the level it's set to.

Forget to just look at what's staring you in the face ? 

Yes, the trigger channel is clearly displayed, so the confusion can be cleared up quickly. But you still have that "heck, what happened to my trigger? " moment before you realize that the channel was auto-changed, and it takes a couple of clicks/taps to sort it out.

To use a slightly exaggerated example: If my TV set was in the habit of switching to a new channel every time I change the volume -- because the last time I used that volume setting, I was watching that channel -- I would find it a poor consolation that it clearly displays the new channel number in the upper left of the screen.

[eTobey]

I also have one friendly recommendation.

....

I take your recommendation as my suggestion should be taken: Not as a requirement. Arguing about it is perfectly fine. But i must say, that i really do like efficient working. And i have often good ideas. If they are not good, you are welcome to argue/convince me. It is not the first time i worked on a UI, but unfortunately in this case i cant. But i will put out suggestions, in the hope that they might be implemented one day.

If others can get used to work laborious, that is great. But that would always bother me.

[RAPo]

A bit unclear as to whom you are referring, but in any case, see below for my settings.

Can you post a picture? There are other versions shown too.

[eTobey]

A bit unclear as to whom you are referring, but in any case, see below for my settings.
(Attachment Link)

Try these settings /ip. Try your local, and berlin too!

Hostname SDS120X ?? what is this?

[RAPo]

Yep, that did the trick; many thanks.

But this begs the question: Why is one NTP server autoconnecting and the other not?

I even overlooked SDS120X. It just comes from the instrument information.

A bit unclear as to whom you are referring, but in any case, see below for my settings.
(Attachment Link)

Try these settings /ip. Try your local, and berlin too!

Hostname SDS120X ?? what is this?

[ebastler]

Yep, that did the trick; many thanks.
But this begs the question: Why is one NTP server autoconnecting and the other not?

Great that it works now, but a bit bizarre and inconclusive. As mentioned yesterday, I had suspected differences between NTP servers and had tried with the NTP server you were using previously -- it auto-connected just fine here. Did anything else change in the meantime? Fingers crossed that you get stable connects now!

[eTobey]

Suggestion:
Dont save Trigger settings (trigger source etc.) on a trigger type. Rather save trigger setting for each trigger type for each channel. This way one could quick and easy change trough all the set up triggers, without changing everything back and forth.

[tautech]

Suggestion:
Dont save Trigger settings (trigger source etc.) on a trigger type. Rather save trigger setting for each trigger type for each channel. This way one could quick and easy change trough all the set up triggers, without changing everything back and forth.

This would require a complete platform trigger settings redesign....can't see this happening as too many models are impacted.

You need propose a better and fully documented case for this to be considered.

[eTobey]

This would require a complete platform trigger settings redesign....can't see this happening as too many models are impacted.

You need propose a better and fully documented case for this to be considered.