SDS800X HD Wanted Features

[electronics hobbyist]

I will drag the scope over to the main router later today and see whether that makes any difference...

I tried the direct Ethernet connection to my router now -- but it does not change the fact that the SMB client does not auto-connect when the scope reboots. But I probably figured out what actually makes the difference between eTobey's & my non-working setup and electronics hobbyist's working one:

To make the SMB client auto-connect, use a fixed IP address in your scope. I had previously set my LAN config to "Automatic" (DHCP) and instructed my router to always assign the same IP address to the scope. Unchecking the "Automatic" checkbox lets the scope use that same address going forward, but now the SMB client auto-connects as it should. Also works via the WiFi setup I use at the bench.

EDIT: But the auto-connect via WiFi only works if the WiFi connection is already up and running when the scope completes its bootstrap. So it seems that the SMB auto-connect is tried only once, right at boot, and if the IP connection is not fully set up, it fails. Would be nice if the Siglent software team could implement a retry once the network connection is fully established, like they apparently did for NTP.

  You can always grasp the key points, Removed bug No.10, Added to wanted feature No.28, this issue can be treated as a bug or a wanted feature.

[eTobey]

You can always grasp the key points, Removed bug No.10, Added to wanted feature No.28, this issue can be treated as a bug or a wanted feature.

I have to strongly disagree! If it says "autoconnect", then it should connect automatically, if the connection is possible. Doing workarounds, to not run into a bug is possible, but it does not remove the bug.

[eTobey]

If I set the time and date manually, I expect it to work.

It does, if you set it up. Just dont turn it off. 

[eTobey]

Will you please stop being rude, obnoxious vulgarian ?

What exactly do you find rude, obnoxious or vulgarian about my sentence???

[ebastler]

You can always grasp the key points, Removed bug No.10, Added to wanted feature No.28, this issue can be treated as a bug or a wanted feature.

May I ask that we still treat this as a bug?

While there is a workaround, it is certainly not an obvious one. I expect that many users will give up on the SMB client function because they cannot get it to work. And in larger settings (education, companies), using fixed IP addresses may not be an acceptable option at all, because the network administrators want to manage the network centrally and require DHCP.

[electronics hobbyist]

Ok, I'll modify it later. China will be Qingming Festival in the next few days, so . You can discuss it first.

[2N3055]

But how do you expect the scope to keep the time when off, without a battery-buffered RTC?

I'm getting a headache right now...
I've never had a scope, no matter how expensive or cheap, that couldn't keep this data (if it had a time/date setting).
A manual setting makes sense if you are not connected to the network and I don't always want to have it connected to the network.

I thought the DHO800 didn't have an RTC or battery either?

Or do Rigol manage to keep the clock going during standby, as long as you don't physically cut the power? That's a little disappointment with Siglent -- 4W of standby power don't get you any buffering during standby. They could have implemented time-keeping and fast restart from standby.

I keep repeating, there is no standby.
Cue is in the "Shutting down" message.

It has separate soft power controller.

And they couldn't make fast restart because most of the time in boot is not CPU booting OS but other housekeeping, testing, FPGA config etc..

It is not just a PC.

[ebastler]

I keep repeating, there is no standby.
Cue is in the "Shutting down" message.

It has separate soft power controller.

And they couldn't make fast restart because most of the time in boot is not CPU booting OS but other housekeeping, testing, FPGA config etc..

It is not just a PC.

I understand, thanks, and I realize that Siglent can't retrofit a standby software-RTC in the existing design.

There is nothing wrong with not having a standby mode -- but in that case, they should really have designed it to use much less "standby" power. If every TV set sold in Europe can get by with 0.5W, it can't be that difficult or expensive. Or even better, fit a proper mains switch right away -- although this would add some cost.

[2N3055]

I keep repeating, there is no standby.
Cue is in the "Shutting down" message.

It has separate soft power controller.

And they couldn't make fast restart because most of the time in boot is not CPU booting OS but other housekeeping, testing, FPGA config etc..

It is not just a PC.

I understand, thanks, and I realize that Siglent can't retrofit a standby software-RTC in the existing design.

There is nothing wrong with not having a standby mode -- but in that case, they should really have designed it to use much less "standby" power. If every TV set sold in Europe can get by with 0.5W, it can't be that difficult or expensive. Or even better, fit a proper mains switch right away -- although this would add some cost.

Soft switch is there for a reason. Proper shutdown is necessary to ensure proper shutdown sequence.
My Keysight also pulls few watts at OFF.
There must be some reason why, I wouldn't know.

[gf]

If every TV set sold in Europe can get by with 0.5W, it can't be that difficult or expensive.

Since 2013, less than 0.5W in standby or off mode is even required by EU Ecodesign regulation for most devices. They are not allowed to be sold in EU if they don't comply. However, for some kinds of devices (e.g. network standby devices), different limits apply. Don't know what applies to test equipment?

[ebastler]

If every TV set sold in Europe can get by with 0.5W, it can't be that difficult or expensive.

Since 2013, less than 0.5W in standby or off mode is even required by EU Ecodesign regulation for most devices. They are not allowed to be sold in EU if they don't comply. However, for some kinds of devices (e.g. network standby devices), different limits apply. Don't know what applies to test equipment?

The regulations apply to consumer products only, which makes sense: Made in large quantities, and with short product life cycles, so the rules could be introduced with a relatively short lead time. Industrial and T&M equipment is out of scope.

[Performa01]

Very nice analysis.
Will pass on a suggestion.

I think this is not even necessary.

Unlike some of the Competition, this "bug & feature" thread is monitored actively and very closely by Siglent... 

[ebastler]

Unlike some of the Competition, this "bug & feature" thread is monitored actively and very closely by Siglent... 

We even get notified of weekend or holiday-induced "service interruptions" -- so we can't complain about a lack of attention!

[eTobey]

Unlike some of the Competition, this "bug & feature" thread is monitored actively and very closely by Siglent... 

I wonder how much attention they put on the feature part of it, and if they already are working on those bugs.

[RAPo]

In my situation I connect via LAN and the main router. Will test tomorrow if I should be a bit more patient.

I've waited for 5 minutes, no autoconnect to the NTP-server. As soon as I press sync the date/time syncs.

I've tried to save the screen to a (png) file via the save button, but the most right part with date/time is not part of saved info.
When I make a screenshot via the web interface the date/time info shows up.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but imho the date/time should be part of a saved screenshot.

[RAPo]

Is there any reason why I can't turn on dots-mode when in XY-display mode. I wish it could.

[RAPo]

In the web interface, xy-acquire mode, pressing display and then axis label setting, at the option for the vertical axis, if I click on a mode (left/middle/right), I aspect to select the clicked mode.
Instead, the scope follows the cycle of left/middle/right in succession.

So if the selected mode is Middle and I click on Left, the scope moves to Right, not Left-mode selection. This isn't a bug of the scope, but it goes against user interface guidelines.

I cannot turn on axis-labels in XY-mode. Whish I could.

[ebastler]

I've tried to save the screen to a (png) file via the save button, but the most right part with date/time is not part of saved info.
When I make a screenshot via the web interface the date/time info shows up.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but imho the date/time should be part of a saved screenshot.

I found that the time/date field is only included in the screenshot if you have "Include Menu" activated in the Save menu.

I would consider this a (minor) bug: "Include Menu" should control just that, namely whether the menu is shown in the screenshot. I may not always want the menu in the screenshot, but I always want the date & time. If I should prefer to hide the date/time for some reason -- and I struggle to imagine one --, it can be disabled via the separate "Display Date/Time" checkbox in the Time/NTP dialog.

[ebastler]

I've waited for 5 minutes, no autoconnect to the NTP-server. As soon as I press sync the date/time syncs.

What type of network connection do you use? If it's one of the small WiFi bridges (TP-Link or similar) which is powered from the scope's USB port, have you tried powering the bridge separately and giving it a headstart of a minute or two before you boot the scope?

The WiFi bridge I use is powered from the same switchable power strip as the scope. If I power and start both at more or less the same time, the scope has completed its boot process before the bridge has established its WiFi connection. The little network icon on the scope shows an active connection right away (no more red X), since the Ethernet connection is already there -- but the NTP server can't be reached yet since there is no connection to the router and internet.

The scope then gets the time about a minute later. It seems to me that this happens as soon as the WiFi LED on the bridge stops flashing. So maybe the scope is not retrying at regular intervals, but receives some kind of signal from the bridge which lets it know that the connection is now fully up and running? And maybe it depends on the particular network devices and environment whether that signal is provided, and understood by the scope?

Just speculating here... But running a test where you make sure that the internet connection is already available when the scope boots up might give you another data point.

[RAPo]

I have a direct connection with LAN.
Immediately after starting the scope, there is a network connection.
A five-minute wait time gives no sync status
After pressing sync, the date/time updates immediately.

See composite image.

I've waited for 5 minutes, no autoconnect to the NTP-server. As soon as I press sync the date/time syncs.

What type of network connection do you use? If it's one of the small WiFi bridges (TP-Link or similar) which is powered from the scope's USB port, have you tried powering the bridge separately and giving it a headstart of a minute or two before you boot the scope?

The WiFi bridge I use is powered from the same switchable power strip as the scope. If I power and start both at more or less the same time, the scope has completed its boot process before the bridge has established its WiFi connection. The little network icon on the scope shows an active connection right away (no more red X), since the Ethernet connection is already there -- but the NTP server can't be reached yet since there is no connection to the router and internet.

The scope then gets the time about a minute later. It seems to me that this happens as soon as the WiFi LED on the bridge stops flashing. So maybe the scope is not retrying at regular intervals, but receives some kind of signal from the bridge which lets it know that the connection is now fully up and running? And maybe it depends on the particular network devices and environment whether that signal is provided, and understood by the scope?

Just speculating here... But running a test where you make sure that the internet connection is already available when the scope boots up might give you another data point.

[ebastler]

I have a direct connection with LAN.
Immediately after starting the scope, there is a network connection.
A five-minute wait time gives no sync status
After pressing sync, the date/time updates immediately.

Thank you for the screenshots! This is quite baffling... I tried your time zone and NTP server settings, and get a fast NTP auto-sync with those as well. I also tried a few totally unrelated settings, just stabbing in the dark -- USB stick inserted during boot, screen saver on and such -- but nothing got in the way of the NTP auto-sync. What else could be different? 

(On a very loosely related note, since I did some of this while sitting comfortably on the couch: I am surprised how early in the boot process the web server, including the remote screen-share, comes up! I could even see the Siglent splash screen from my PC, followed by the not-yet-operative UI, then the full live display. So the scope's operating system boots up quite quickly indeed, fires up the web server, and then needs more time to initialize the scope-specific hardware -- as mentioned earlier by 2N3055 in the standby and boot time discussion.)

[RAPo]

This was all done in default factory setting, except for turning on channel 2 and enter the NTP  settings.

I have a direct connection with LAN.
Immediately after starting the scope, there is a network connection.
A five-minute wait time gives no sync status
After pressing sync, the date/time updates immediately.

Thank you for the screenshots! This is quite baffling... I tried your time zone and NTP server settings, and get a fast NTP auto-sync with those as well. I also tried a few totally unrelated settings, just stabbing in the dark -- USB stick inserted during boot, screen saver on and such -- but nothing got in the way of the NTP auto-sync. What else could be different? 

(On a very loosely related note, since I did some of this while sitting comfortably on the couch: I am surprised how early in the boot process the web server, including the remote screen-share, comes up! I could even see the Siglent splash screen from my PC, followed by the not-yet-operative UI, then the full live display. So the scope's operating system boots up quite quickly indeed, fires up the web server, and then needs more time to initialize the scope-specific hardware -- as mentioned earlier by 2N3055 in the standby and boot time discussion.)

[2N3055]

We cannot be certain unless we look at network packet capture.
Difference can be DNS, for instance.

EDIT

As I was rudely and vulgarly pointed out be eDouchebag, 800xHD cannot use DNS for NTP name so my comment was out of place.
I apologize, I use local IP for NTP, and presumed hostname could be used. I checked and was wrong.

[eTobey]

Difference can be DNS, for instance.

DNS has nothing to do with it! Google DNS, what it actually is.

[eTobey]

This was all done in default factory setting, except for turning on channel 2 and enter the NTP  settings.

What is your firmware version?

If it is not up-to-date, update it.