SALEAE prices ...

[Domitronic]

At the current Salea prices levels it makes more sense to buy an oscilloscope with digital inputs (or upgrade your existing DSO if possible).

If a Logic 4 would have been enough he doesn't even need the digital channels. Standard 4 channel scope should be enough.

But i can understand why someone would prefer a Saleae. For decoding i also prefer my Logic Pro 8 because its much more convenient than decoding on a small scope display. And its silent.

[markone]

At the current Salea prices levels it makes more sense to buy an oscilloscope with digital inputs (or upgrade your existing DSO if possible).

If a Logic 4 would have been enough he doesn't even need the digital channels. Standard 4 channel scope should be enough.

But i can understand why someone would prefer a Saleae. For decoding i also prefer my Logic Pro 8 because its much more convenient than decoding on a small scope display. And its silent.

With a standard scope you cannot do a lot of things that you do with a digital LA / sniffer, first to log long communication period.

Anyway, as i previously told here, an old Logic 4 would have been more than enough.

[ulix]

At the current Salea prices levels it makes more sense to buy an oscilloscope with digital inputs (or upgrade your existing DSO if possible).

If a Logic 4 would have been enough he doesn't even need the digital channels. Standard 4 channel scope should be enough.

But i can understand why someone would prefer a Saleae. For decoding i also prefer my Logic Pro 8 because its much more convenient than decoding on a small scope display. And its silent.

With a standard scope you cannot do a lot of things that you do with a digital LA / sniffer, first to log long communication period.

Anyway, as i previously told here, an old Logic 4 would have been more than enough.

How about this (if you want I could send it from the UK)?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324350120733?hash=item4b84c6131d:g:jgEAAOSwUWpa3Tom

[Swake]

Dear markone,
You say it is for a professional project. If that is really the case then its cost should be calculated in your sales price and is not an issue. Even if it was not included, the difference is only 350€ or so, shouldn't be something to spend (I should say waste) a couple hours onto. For DIY it is a totally different situation of course.

Please reconsider the proposal from Domitronic. I'm not entirely certain to understand what exactly you want to trigger on but a cheap Rigol DS1054Z can certainly do the trick for 350€ ExVAT on Eleshop. It comes with free advanced triggering and protocol decoding (RS232, I2C, SPI). With this you are 'clean' out of the box. Would you elect to go dirty and patch it then it is capable of twice the speed and some other goodies.

Slightly upper the ladder there is the 800€ MSO5074 on sale coming with the protocol analysis options and 2 arbitrary waveform generators and the power analysis option. This is all clean too. The dirty road goes to 350MHz. Best investment you would ever do to boost your analysis capabilities.

[markone]

Dear markone,
You say it is for a professional project. If that is really the case then its cost should be calculated in your sales price and is not an issue. Even if it was not included, the difference is only 350€ or so, shouldn't be something to spend (I should say waste) a couple hours onto. For DIY it is a totally different situation of course.

Please reconsider the proposal from Domitronic. I'm not entirely certain to understand what exactly you want to trigger on but a cheap Rigol DS1054Z can certainly do the trick for 350€ ExVAT on Eleshop. It comes with free advanced triggering and protocol decoding (RS232, I2C, SPI). With this you are 'clean' out of the box. Would you elect to go dirty and patch it then it is capable of twice the speed and some other goodies.

Slightly upper the ladder there is the 800€ MSO5074 on sale coming with the protocol analysis options and 2 arbitrary waveform generators and the power analysis option. This is all clean too. The dirty road goes to 350MHz. Best investment you would ever do to boost your analysis capabilities.

Dear markone,
You say it is for a professional project. If that is really the case then its cost should be calculated in your sales price and is not an issue. Even if it was not included, the difference is only 350€ or so, shouldn't be something to spend (I should say waste) a couple hours onto. For DIY it is a totally different situation of course.

Please reconsider the proposal from Domitronic. I'm not entirely certain to understand what exactly you want to trigger on but a cheap Rigol DS1054Z can certainly do the trick for 350€ ExVAT on Eleshop. It comes with free advanced triggering and protocol decoding (RS232, I2C, SPI). With this you are 'clean' out of the box. Would you elect to go dirty and patch it then it is capable of twice the speed and some other goodies.

Slightly upper the ladder there is the 800€ MSO5074 on sale coming with the protocol analysis options and 2 arbitrary waveform generators and the power analysis option. This is all clean too. The dirty road goes to 350MHz. Best investment you would ever do to boost your analysis capabilities.

Dear Swake, please trust me, i know my job, i started to play with serial lines during the cold war, in the eighties, none of above mentioned instruments, that i regularly use, fits the purpose, nor more expensive ones.

I use DSO with serial decodind when i need to verify/measure time relation between serial messages with other digital/analog signals or when i "tag" analog signals with a  high speed uart byte.

But when it comes to debug systems that make use of one or several serial line with custom protocols DSO becomes useless, the minimal requirement is, at very least, to trigger on specific byte sequence, maybe on different serial lines at very different baud rate.

Here Logic does a great job ...

[markone]

At the current Salea prices levels it makes more sense to buy an oscilloscope with digital inputs (or upgrade your existing DSO if possible).

If a Logic 4 would have been enough he doesn't even need the digital channels. Standard 4 channel scope should be enough.

But i can understand why someone would prefer a Saleae. For decoding i also prefer my Logic Pro 8 because its much more convenient than decoding on a small scope display. And its silent.

With a standard scope you cannot do a lot of things that you do with a digital LA / sniffer, first to log long communication period.

Anyway, as i previously told here, an old Logic 4 would have been more than enough.

How about this (if you want I could send it from the UK)?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324350120733?hash=item4b84c6131d:g:jgEAAOSwUWpa3Tom

This is exactly the example that i was referring to when i was saying that the only seller found online, so far, with a Logic 4 in listing was asking 3X original price 

Just to clarify, i'm able to afford much more expensive devices, if needed and justified, but this is not the case for the new Saleae product line, i rather would prefer to give my money to other companies with a different business spirit.

[DavidAlfa]

Well... Perhabs try sourcing a used genuine Saleae device?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/125618430304

[ulix]

At the current Salea prices levels it makes more sense to buy an oscilloscope with digital inputs (or upgrade your existing DSO if possible).

If a Logic 4 would have been enough he doesn't even need the digital channels. Standard 4 channel scope should be enough.

But i can understand why someone would prefer a Saleae. For decoding i also prefer my Logic Pro 8 because its much more convenient than decoding on a small scope display. And its silent.

With a standard scope you cannot do a lot of things that you do with a digital LA / sniffer, first to log long communication period.

Anyway, as i previously told here, an old Logic 4 would have been more than enough.

How about this (if you want I could send it from the UK)?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324350120733?hash=item4b84c6131d:g:jgEAAOSwUWpa3Tom

This is exactly the example that i was referring to when i was saying that the only seller found online, so far, with a Logic 4 in listing was asking 3X original price 

Just to clarify, i'm able to afford much more expensive devices, if needed and justified, but this is not the case for the new Saleae product line, i rather would prefer to give my money to other companies with a different business spirit.

Sry, I was half heartedly reading through the thread and have missed that... 

And yes, I do feel you - the prices keeps me from buying one. Their product and software are great, and easy to use that what makes it attractive in my eyes.

Have you tried the Picoscope 2000 MSO series?

[alm]

Just to clarify, i'm able to afford much more expensive devices, if needed and justified, but this is not the case for the new Saleae product line, i rather would prefer to give my money to other companies with a different business spirit.

It seems a straight-forward business decision: either the Saleae unit provides enough value to be worth its price, another competing unit offers more value, or none of the solutions are providing enough return on investment. I don't see a problem with business spirit if it's apparently the only device in its price class that offers the feature that's important to you. Clearly they were charging too little before, though keep in mind the protocol triggering feature was added later, so early on their analyzers didn't provide the same value.

If you look at TotalPhase, who is operating in the same market segment, then they arguably offer even less value for money, and I imagine their low-end devices aren't much more than a MCU and some software. But given they are around for well over a decade, clearly people pay what they ask for a professional tool rather than a development board and a firmware/software project.

Have you taken a good look at the Digilent Digital Discovery yet? I think it supports protocol triggering, but I don't know how it compares to Saleae. Though the plastic case doesn't look quite as professional as the Saleae, so clearly the Saleae is worth more . You can sometimes find the Digital Discovery relatively cheap on eBay if you're lucky.

[DavidAlfa]

Well... Perhabs try sourcing a used genuine Saleae device?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/125618430304

Well,it's the "normal" 24MHz 8-ch analyzer you find for $6.
I thought it was a better one, but that's Fluke pricing for peanuts.
This model was launched 13 years ago for $149... Asking for $270, what the...?

[Fungus]

Have you taken a good look at the Digilent Digital Discovery yet? I think it supports protocol triggering,

It has serial triggering and a special protocol spying mode.

Everything is scriptable. You can write scripts and make it send a reply when it sees the trigger data.

I think you should be able get it to pretend to transmit data and simultaneously spy on it in the demo mode (with no hardware).

[egonotto]

Hello,

@markone:

Is a test possible?

If you can provide a sample signal for an arbitrary waveform generator and indicate what settings should be made and what should be triggered on, then someone can check if a particular device meets your requirement.

Best regards
egonotto

[markone]

Just to clarify, i'm able to afford much more expensive devices, if needed and justified, but this is not the case for the new Saleae product line, i rather would prefer to give my money to other companies with a different business spirit.

It seems a straight-forward business decision: either the Saleae unit provides enough value to be worth its price, another competing unit offers more value, or none of the solutions are providing enough return on investment. I don't see a problem with business spirit if it's apparently the only device in its price class that offers the feature that's important to you. Clearly they were charging too little before, though keep in mind the protocol triggering feature was added later, so early on their analyzers didn't provide the same value.

If you look at TotalPhase, who is operating in the same market segment, then they arguably offer even less value for money, and I imagine their low-end devices aren't much more than a MCU and some software. But given they are around for well over a decade, clearly people pay what they ask for a professional tool rather than a development board and a firmware/software project.

Have you taken a good look at the Digilent Digital Discovery yet? I think it supports protocol triggering, but I don't know how it compares to Saleae. Though the plastic case doesn't look quite as professional as the Saleae, so clearly the Saleae is worth more . You can sometimes find the Digital Discovery relatively cheap on eBay if you're lucky.

The value is 99% in their software application, all the job is done on the PC, especially with simple FX2 LA, it would make sense to sell also stand alone SW licenses, someone else already did it for clones.

It happens that i know TotalPhase because about ten years ago i developed a data sniffer using their "Beagle I2C/SPI Protocol Analyzer" device, they provide  driver support and several APIs, also for Labview, that was the language used for the occasion (actually i'm also a Labview developer).

Their product catalog is way more articulated and for sure they spend much more time maintaining software libraries support for all SKUs, i would say there is a lot more manpower behind the facade.

I still have to take a look to Digital Discovery and i'm quite curious, i just saw that Amazon sells it around 250 Euro, it could be a reasonable price if the application is up the expectations.

[markone]

-snip

And yes, I do feel you - the prices keeps me from buying one. Their product and software are great, and easy to use that what makes it attractive in my eyes.

Have you tried the Picoscope 2000 MSO series?

I have zero experience with their products, do you know if they offers similar functionality ?

[markone]

Well,it's the "normal" 24MHz 8-ch analyzer you find for $6.
I thought it was a better one, but that's Fluke pricing for peanuts.
This model was launched 13 years ago for $149... Asking for $270, what the...?

Exactly what i fought 

[markone]

Hello,

@markone:

Is a test possible?

If you can provide a sample signal for an arbitrary waveform generator and indicate what settings should be made and what should be triggered on, then someone can check if a particular device meets your requirement.

Best regards
egonotto

Do you refer to Sigrok platform or Digilent device ?

[markone]

Have you tried the Picoscope 2000 MSO series?

Update :

just watched the following video that seems promising

 

 i will definitely look further in ther website.

[egonotto]

Do you refer to Sigrok platform or Digilent device ?

Hello,

I have a Digital Discovery and can perhaps try it.

As far as I know, PicoScopes can not trigger on data.

Best regards
egonotto

[mwb1100]

Just to clarify, i'm able to afford much more expensive devices, if needed and justified, but this is not the case for the new Saleae product line, i rather would prefer to give my money to other companies with a different business spirit.

It seems a straight-forward business decision: either the Saleae unit provides enough value to be worth its price, another competing unit offers more value, or none of the solutions are providing enough return on investment. I don't see a problem with business spirit if it's apparently the only device in its price class that offers the feature that's important to you. Clearly they were charging too little before, though keep in mind the protocol triggering feature was added later, so early on their analyzers didn't provide the same value.

...

The value is 99% in their software application, all the job is done on the PC, especially with simple FX2 LA, it would make sense to sell also stand alone SW licenses, ...

I agree with alm - it seems to me that you should consider whether the price of a product is reasonable in terms of the feature you want.  If Saleae's product is the only one that provides a critical feature  and if getting that feature is worth $500 (assuming the Logic 8 will do it for you) then whether that feature is 99% software 1% hardware instead of 99% hardware 1% software shouldn't really be a concern.  The hardware & software are a product package that provides a solution and it costs $500.

It's certainly valid not to like Saleae's business model, but I personally don't think it's a dishonest business model.  If you need this for your own revenue generation you should maybe weight the dollars & cents (or Euros & cents) more heavily than emotions about the way the product is being sold.

Of course, it's none of my business really.  You'll need to make the choice yourself.

[bdunham7]

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fssaleae-logic-16-gen-1/?topicseen

[markone]

Do you refer to Sigrok platform or Digilent device ?

Hello,

I have a Digital Discovery and can perhaps try it.

As far as I know, PicoScopes can not trigger on data.

Best regards
egonotto

Yes, it seems you are right, in documentation there is no mention about trigger mechanism working on serial decoder output and i find out some customers asking for that in their forum, for about 1K euro i would say it's quite a big lack.

How do you use your Digital Discovery ?

[markone]

Just to clarify, i'm able to afford much more expensive devices, if needed and justified, but this is not the case for the new Saleae product line, i rather would prefer to give my money to other companies with a different business spirit.

It seems a straight-forward business decision: either the Saleae unit provides enough value to be worth its price, another competing unit offers more value, or none of the solutions are providing enough return on investment. I don't see a problem with business spirit if it's apparently the only device in its price class that offers the feature that's important to you. Clearly they were charging too little before, though keep in mind the protocol triggering feature was added later, so early on their analyzers didn't provide the same value.

...

The value is 99% in their software application, all the job is done on the PC, especially with simple FX2 LA, it would make sense to sell also stand alone SW licenses, ...

I agree with alm - it seems to me that you should consider whether the price of a product is reasonable in terms of the feature you want.  If Saleae's product is the only one that provides a critical feature  and if getting that feature is worth $500 (assuming the Logic 8 will do it for you) then whether that feature is 99% software 1% hardware instead of 99% hardware 1% software shouldn't really be a concern.  The hardware & software are a product package that provides a solution and it costs $500.

It's certainly valid not to like Saleae's business model, but I personally don't think it's a dishonest business model.  If you need this for your own revenue generation you should maybe weight the dollars & cents (or Euros & cents) more heavily than emotions about the way the product is being sold.

Of course, it's none of my business really.  You'll need to make the choice yourself.

>"Clearly they were charging too little before"

I do not agree, the old application offered a lot less and the cost of the devices that they were selling over one hundred dollars was a fraction of that, with the "old"  component cost i see a decent margin.

Said that, if you have a catalog of devices starting from 100 USD and suddenly you step 5X, well, you cannot expect to maintain the previous customer base.

For instance, take the Logic 8, 8bits @ 100MS/s on USB 2.0 interface plus gimmick analog section : 500 USD ... come on.

[Doctorandus_P]

Huh, have Salaeaeaea increased their prices again? They already priced themselves out of the market before the chip crisis began.

[markone]

Anyway, every low cost solution supports async serial decoding under Sigrok / Pulseview

Of course, but decoding is done _post_ acquisition (by python plugins) and cannot be used for acquisition triggering.

Dunno which is exactly the computation pipeline used in Pulseview but i can report that with my setup (simple Cypress FX2 LA)  decoded serial data is presented on the screen, together signal trace, in live fashion, i would think that within certain speed it would be possible to put inline e trigger mechanism, for sure there is the potential to make it.

[markone]

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fssaleae-logic-16-gen-1/?topicseen

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