Rigol's New DHO800 Oscilloscope unbox & teardown

[EEVblog]

Oh boy 70 C on a thermocouple is not good. That chip would have been easily over 100 C.

Yeah, on the outer edge too. Something did not like it and shut down.
I only noticed it during the Amp Hour recording and the temp was dropping, so it was probably mid 70's on the heatsink at peak.

[.RC.]

They're already in here muttering under their breath about how this is just a toy that people will play with before going back to a Siglent to get some work done.

Pfft, The real deal prosumers use Fnirsi. Now that is hardcore.

[CosteC]

Recently DHO800 and DHO900 appeared in Poland, but not DHO1000. 4000 was available for some time. Any idea why it may be?

[Razor512]

Those types of heatsinks do not handle high thermal loads well if trying to passively cool stuff. For some reason I have been seeing this style of heatsink being used more and more often, especially on some WiFi routers, Though the implementations that I have seen involved the casing acting as a duct while the fan exhausted the heat outside of the case.

In the case of WiFi router using a fraction of that wattage, the fan doesn't spin unless it is a hot day and the CPU is under a higher load. (the fan doesn't kick in until the CPU or any of the WiFi radio SOCs reach 80C or hotter in the case of the router).

[tv84]

Will it exceed it's grandad's thread of 191 pages - the ubiquitous DS1045Z? Only time will tell. 

Looking strong up till now. 21 pages and counting, without product on the shelves...

BUT let's see the impact when it comes out.

[Luc7777]

Hi,
Just got the DH0804 from China, comes with the 65w Lenovo psu... man, this thing is so tiny

[2N3055]

I predict all out war with the Siglent fanboys.

They're already in here muttering under their breath about how this is just a toy that people will play with before going back to a Siglent to get some work done.

Well, it is a sort of a toy, compared to MSO5000. for instance... People use older equipment that works from all brands if if works better than any new shiny but immature thing.
They might go to Siglent (or Picoscope or R&S or Keysight) if they want Bode plot for instance.
If all they need is 12 bit scope for looking at the signals visually and some basic analysis, I'm sure this scope would be more than enough for many people. For decoding, it will suck with such a  small memory on SPI for instance. Or I2C  and 2 analog channels. Of course it would be fine to ocasionaly look at few packets packet. For a single (or 2 ch on a 4ch scope) channel looking at signal it would be fine.
Or as Nico said, it is cheap enough to just buy it to have something 12 bit with low noise for just looking at low level signals in addition to your existing workhorse.

It is a cheapest 12 bit scope currently. Not the best 12 bit scope. Not the best scope for MSO work. Not the best scope in any category but it's own: rock bottom cheap 12 bit scope.
Nobody else decided yet to compete in that category. It is not a replacement for DS1000Z so much as a DS1000Z equivalent in 12 bit touchscreen world. That is not a bad thing but not a gamechanger either.
It is up to people to decide if that is something for them or they need something else.

[RoGeorge]

Many posts here show hardware/software hacking enthusiasm. 
Maybe we should organize some "Capture the Flag" competitions.

[dreamcat4]

ok granted, but on what basis are we saying that the mixed signal is worse on the 900 series, when there isn't actually proper reviews yet? some memory specs alone? or are you also assuming that it will be like the mso5000 previously?

also in terms of using it as an l.a. perhaps we can connect to a pc. and then get some 3rd party software support for sigrok. so i am a bit unsure to what extent here the mixed signal is going to be so much worse... or at what data rates it cannot keep up, to send over those data, if the memory is not big enough?

otoh i have seen rudi demonstrate the rb2004 data capture. and there is something to be said about having it right there on the scope. and presented so clearly / so well. and across multiple digital channels.

so i am eh, waiting for some 900 series standalone review(s). or some good scope-to-scope comparisons. maybe it's some few more days/weeks that they get shipped out to customers?

[2N3055]

ok granted, but on what basis are we saying that the mixed signal is worse on the 900 series, when there isn't actually proper reviews yet? some memory specs alone? or are you also assuming that it will be like the mso5000 previously?

also in terms of using it as an l.a. perhaps we can connect to a pc. and then get some 3rd party software support for sigrok. so i am a bit unsure to what extent here the mixed signal is going to be so much worse... or at what data rates it cannot keep up, to send over those data, if the memory is not big enough?

otoh i have seen rudi demonstrate the rb2004 data capture. and there is something to be said about having it right there on the scope. and presented so clearly / so well. and across multiple digital channels.

so i am eh, waiting for some 900 series standalone review(s). or some good scope-to-scope comparisons. maybe it's some few more days/weeks that they get shipped out to customers?

If you are refering to my post, I spoke about 800.
With 1MPts it will have sampling issues if you lengthen the timebase.

900 with (125MHz BW) might be decent little machine. It is not as cheap though.. As you say, needs to be seen. It might end up being nice little scope. But for 125Mhz BW.

[NE666]

for decoding, it will suck with such a  small memory on SPI for instance.

I agree with you, in that the debug of exchanges for anything other than the smallest, most basic systems will require something other than an oscilloscope anyway.

However, I note that Keysight seem to think that 1M per channel is a perfectly fine specification for the cheapest 70MHz 4-channel 2000-x series, at more than 7x the cost of the DHO804.  And I wonder how many folks planning to order the DHO would at least give pause for thought if they could buy said Keysight new for the same money and not think twice about the "small" memory depth, never mind the 12-bit resolution.

[2N3055]

for decoding, it will suck with such a  small memory on SPI for instance.

I agree with you, in that the debug of exchanges for anything other than the smallest, most basic systems will require something other than an oscilloscope anyway.

However, I note that Keysight seem to think that 1M per channel is a perfectly fine specification for the cheapest 4-channel 2000-x series, at more than 7x the cost of the DHO804.  And I wonder how many folks planning to order the DHO would at least give pause for thought if they could buy said Keysight new for the same money and never think twice about the "small" memory depth.

Well Keysight is 10+ years old design. In addition to that, Keysight (cheats?) is clever there: In Megazoom chip, input from analog channel going into ADC is in parallel connected to a comparator. That comparator is connected to decoder in hardware, so even if your ADC is sampling at 100KS/s decoder have full timing resolution.
I have Keysight scope and it can decode properly even if what is on the screen is completely scrambled.
That is good side. Bad side is you cannot enable decoding on something you sampled previously.

1Mpoint on software decoded scope is not very good. It will serve basic functions, but must be said that it wont be as good as some other scopes with more memory.
I'm trying to provide balanced view to fanboying saying "it is cheap and 12 bit it will kill everything else because it is much better ..". It is better in a very limited scope. Only in analog performance with limited channels.
You need to go to at least 900 to have 125 MHz scope without stupid limitations.
DHO1000 is analog only.
Some weird product positioning choices..

[NE666]

Some weird product positioning choices..

Absolutely.

[tautech]

Whatever the DSO design, it is severely compromised by small memory depth. Don't care the brand.
DSO = Storage for deeper analysis where in case no one has noticed deep memory cannot be surpassed with additional bits. 

[tv84]

deep memory cannot be surpassed with additional bits. 

And worse: additional bits means more memory gets eaten.

[EEVblog]

It is not a replacement for DS1000Z so much as a DS1000Z equivalent in 12 bit touchscreen world. That is not a bad thing but not a gamechanger either.

Why would you buy a 1000Z instead of this?

[Fungus]

https://www.digikey.com.au/en/products/detail/delta-electronics/ASB0512HHB-AF0A/9974255
https://www.delta-fan.com/Download/Spec/ASB0512HHB-AF0A.pdf

Let the search for a fan begin!

[Fungus]

deep memory cannot be surpassed with additional bits. 

And worse: additional bits means more memory gets eaten.

The DHO900 series datasheet says this: 50 Mpts (single-channel[1]), 25 Mpts (dual-channel[2]), 10 Mpts (full-channel[3])

If this is a hackable option (as I suspect it is) then that's plenty good enough.

Maybe the "1mpts" is just a marketing ploy to sell more DHO900 models and it should really have been 5mpts.

[tv84]

Let the search for a fan begin!

I'm starting to think that you must be hoarding fans... Now i see your catch!! 

[Fungus]

For those who weren't around earlier:

User Azusa already installed DHO900 firmware in a DHO800 and got 50mpts of memory. It's not a hardware thing.

Thank you,hubert.
My DHO804 is DHO924 now.
Two extra drams are only for LA.It can be unpopulate if doesn't use the LA .
The bandwidth is increased successfully.it has 800ps rise time now.
And the memory depth is 50M now.

[Fungus]

not a gamechanger

The DHO800 is a massive step. It defines what every manufacturer needs to do if they want to sell oscilloscopes in the future.

How is that not a game changer?

[2N3055]

It is not a replacement for DS1000Z so much as a DS1000Z equivalent in 12 bit touchscreen world. That is not a bad thing but not a gamechanger either.

Why would you buy a 1000Z instead of this?

DHO900 should surpass DS1000Z in every aspect. But lots more money

DHO800 has very little memory with 4CH. There are some reports that phosphor emulation is not as good.. etc.
DS1000Z will be cheaper still.  Maybe cheapest "proper" scope DS1000Z we all keep recommending in that price range will be even more affordable, good news.
It all depends on what people want/need.

It is actually a good thing. People will have more choices.

For me personally DHO900 is not bad set of compromises for entry level MSO scope. With "when they finish development" caveat..  But I would need to use it to be able to really say do I like it.

[EEVblog]

not a gamechanger

The DHO800 is a massive step. It defines what every manufacturer needs to do if they want to sell oscilloscopes in the future.
How is that not a game changer?

Now in the sub $400 price bracket that other manufacturers will be forced to follow:
12bit
Touch screen
HDMI
VESA mount
USB-C (arguable downside for some, big feature for others)

I'd call that game changer. As always YMMV.

[2N3055]

not a gamechanger

The DHO800 is a massive step. It defines what every manufacturer needs to do if they want to sell oscilloscopes in the future.

How is that not a game changer?

Massive step in what?

Owon makes 14 bit scope for years, but limited software made it nobody cares scope...

It is a big step for Rigol but will it change lives of users?
How many new, life changing things you will be able to do with it compared to DS1000Z, SDS1000X-E, MSO5000?

As you kept trumpeting for years up until now (in discussions about other Rigol, MSO5000), 12 bit and low noise is not important unless you explicitly need it. Which most of the people apparently don't, also adamantly repeated by you.

And if compromises in design (to keep price low) mean you will miss out on something else you need, that it is not a game changer, but something not for you at all.

To put it simply: is DHO900S better than MSO5000 for a person doing robotics, or microcontroller stuff....?  It is cheaper but has less sample rate, les memory, one siggen ch less etc..
Is it good enough for some (many?) people? We'll see.

I stand by it and will wait for history to correct me: not a game changer, but another model in Rigol offer, a 12bit offering that they didn't have. What is new (and awesome!) is that they are very aggressive with a pricing so some people will be able to afford it that otherwise would not be able to. It is great and all because more choice...
Game changer... not really. Good news and kudos to Rigol? Yes absolutely.
Although I see more people confused by choices in future.... 

[EEVblog]

For those who weren't around earlier:
User Azusa already installed DHO900 firmware in a DHO800 and got 50mpts of memory. It's not a hardware thing.

Thank you,hubert.
My DHO804 is DHO924 now.
Two extra drams are only for LA.It can be unpopulate if doesn't use the LA .
The bandwidth is increased successfully.it has 800ps rise time now.
And the memory depth is 50M now.

Was this just an SD card copy?
Is there a 900 SD card dump available?