Rigol new DG1062Z VS DG4062?

[Tabs]

Hi all,

I've been in the electronics industry for 5 years since getting my degree and was thinking it's time to set up my home lab. I have been looking at Rigol test equipment mainly because of the price vs performance of their standard equipment and because of price vs performance of upgrades that can be had by following a certain thread on this forum 

Firstly, a bit about my background and needs:
The first place I worked for was a communications company where I designed for HF/VHF/UHF and then at audio frequencies. At my second place, I now design high accuracy and resolution sensor front ends for temperature sensing (thermocouple, RTDs, 4-20mA etc). I don't want to become rusty on all the comms stuff I learned since moving away from that type of work. I also want to be able to learn the sensor AFE & PSU design trades so that I can apply what I learn at home to the stuff I do at work. I also want to get into FPGAs and embedded design since that is where most of the industry is moving (in terms of work and employment prospects).
To help me get my new skill sets, I need a home project that's diverse enough to cover these disciplines.
Que the home brew 100MHz oscilloscope project 
Or a home brew SDR project. Not decided which one yet.

So my requirements for my home lab equipment are for things that will allow me to consolidate what I already know and to develop my skills further.

I'm in the market for a new - scope, function gen, spectrum analyser ,RF sig gen, psu & logic analyser in order of preference.
I've saved enough to budget around 2.5-3k Euros so I will not be able to purchase everything in one go. What ever I buy will not be replaced for 7 to 10 years. If it breaks out of warranty I will probably find a way to fix it so not truly bothered about any perceived lack of build quality.

I think I will start with a scope and function gen 1st, followed by the spectrum analyser & PSU and leave the RF sig gen for when I really want to get back into comms designs.

So on to business:
On the scope side of things - I'm dithering between a DS2102 and DS4014. I think I'm heading towards the DS4014. The thinking is that I get a better scope which may save me from buying a logic analyser. (I'm thinking I will stick to serial comms like SPI and move away from parallel data buss ADCs/DACs)

Regarding the function gen: I was looking at DG4062 with the possibility of future hacks but now I see the DG1062Z. I'm not too fused about the hacks and more bandwidth since at these frequencies (>100MHz) I will most likely be working with sine waves. I may just switch to the RF sig gen or do sweeps with the spectrum analyser.

The main differences in the function gens are:
500MSPS in the 4062 vs 200 in the Z
16kpts in the 4062 vs 8Mpts in the Z (16M optional)
150 built in arb waveforms in the 4062 vs 160 in the Z
15MHz pulse frequency range in 4062 vs 25MHz in the Z
15MHz vs 20MHz in the Z for arb frequency range
2ppm VS 1ppm frequency accuracy in the Z (over 18 - 28 deg C temperature range)
5 extra modulation types in the 4062 vs the Z.
7" TFT vs 3.5" in the Z
The 4062 wider and less deep than the Z series.

Every other spec on the 4062 is matched in the Z series.

For my needs, the only thing the 4062 has going for it is the 7" display and the dimensions (its similar to the scopes, DSAs etc so will fit nicely on my shelf - not that this is the most important thing i'm looking for). I'm not fussed about the extra modulation types or 500MSPS.
The only clear thing that stands out on the Z is the memory depth.

I'm limiting my self to UK and EU distributors. So far only rigol-uk.co.uk seem to have a price for the Z series of £597. Batronix seems to be consistently cheaper and based on this difference I think the DG1062Z will go for around £550. This makes it around £100 or so cheaper than the 4062. The engineer in me says thats not worth it for a bigger screen and some modulation types. The consumer in me says thats worth it for something that will fit on the shelf + i get a bigger display for free. Id rather buy a deeper shelf for £20 and put the remaining £80 towards the spectrum analyser. Or more likely spend it on BNC cables, loads and adapters.

What do you guys think and what would you go for if you were starting with a similar budget  and from scratch  (but didn't need the beginner gear - irons, DVM etc)?

Cheers,

Tabs

[AndersAnd]

So on to business:
On the scope side of things - I'm dithering between a DS2102 and DS4014. I think I'm heading towards the DS4014. The thinking is that I get a better scope which may save me from buying a logic analyser. (I'm thinking I will stick to serial comms like SPI and move away from parallel data buss ADCs/DACs)

As logic analyzer you should also consider some cheap PC-based logic analyzer like the very popular $149 Saleae Logic (8-bit) or $299 Logic16 (16 bit and faster than Logic): http://www.saleae.com/logic16
They also support the most common and some more exotic serial protocols:

Supported Protocols
The Saleae software supports the following protocols: asynchronous serial, I2C, SPI, CAN, 1-Wire, UNI/O, I2S/PCM, MP Mode 9-bit Serial (i.e. Multidrop and Multiprocessor mod), Manchester, JTAG, LIN, DMX-512, Atmel SWI, MDIO, BiSS C, Simple Parallel, PS/2 Keyboard/Mouse, HMDI CEC, and USB 1.1.

EEVblog #436 – Saleae USB Logic Analyser Review & Teardown:

http://www.eevblog.com/2013/03/09/eevblog-436-saleae-usb-logic-analyser-review-teardown/

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-436-saleae-usb-logic-analyser-review-teardown

[Tabs]

As logic analyzer you should also consider some cheap PC-based logic analyzer like the very popular $149 Saleae Logic (8-bit) or $299 Logic16 (16 bit and faster than Logic): http://www.saleae.com/logic16
They also support the most common and some more exotic serial protocols:

Supported Protocols
The Saleae software supports the following protocols: asynchronous serial, I2C, SPI, CAN, 1-Wire, UNI/O, I2S/PCM, MP Mode 9-bit Serial (i.e. Multidrop and Multiprocessor mod), Manchester, JTAG, LIN, DMX-512, Atmel SWI, MDIO, BiSS C, Simple Parallel, PS/2 Keyboard/Mouse, HMDI CEC, and USB 1.1.

Thanks for this Anders,
I was aware of this LA and first became aware of it when I saw Shahriar review it on the Signal Path Blog.




The Saleae offers more than what I need for the foreseeable future which is good because I'm concerned about the lack of S/W updates since 2010 because I would like something that would last a minimum of 7 years. I know we're not talking about a lot money but I would rather put that towards the spectrum analyser.
ATM I need SPI, I2C, 1-Wire, SWI & Serial. I may use I2S  For audio.

The DS4014 can fulfill most of my current needs which was why I chose it over the DS2000.
If I do drop to a DS2102 I could purchase
http://www.batronix.com/shop/logic-analyzer/Acute-TL2136.html
It seems highly capable and the S/W has a modelsim look and feel which is what I was used to at my old company.
The combination is cheaper than a DS4014 but I have the hassle of working across two products and two displays. Its less portable, but I dont really care about that since I don't expect to carry them out and about.
QA at work would want traceability of calibration to ensure results are valid. I would want my equipment covered by works insurance but it probably wont be. So everything stays at home.

These are the two main arguments that are causing me to sit on the fence.

I dont have a truly valid reason for choosing the DS4014, Its just various comments on these forums about possibly regretting the purchase of a 2 channel vs 4 chan.

If I wanted to stretch my budget and get the bare minimum of what I need I could get:
DS1104Z
DSA815-TG
DG1062Z
DP832
for £2200

The next option would be swap the DS1104Z with DS2102 and add a logic 16 as suggested by AnderAnd, Total £2800. This is pushing the budget so will probably split the spectrum analyser into a 2nd purchase 8 months later.

ATM my preference is a DS4014 and DG4062 as a first purchase totaling £2100
followed by a 2nd purchase some time later for a DSA815-TG and DP832 totaling £1300. Total cost of this £3400 ish. I'm comfortable with this amount as a 10 year investment in my career growth and believe it to be best long term solution. I doubt that I will need to decode >4 wire protocols so will leave the logic 16 until desperate.

Thanks

[AndersAnd]

The Saleae offers more than what I need for the foreseeable future which is good because I'm concerned about the lack of S/W updates since 2010 because I would like something that would last a minimum of 7 years.

There's also USBee: http://www.usbee.com
USBee use the same hardware reference design as Saleae Logic (8-bit) but different software.
Basically the hardware for both are more or less identical to the EZ-USB FX2LP CY7C68013A evaluation board from Cypress: http://www.cypress.com/?id=193
Very basic hardware, it's all happens in the software.

To make hardware from one of the two compatible with software from the other you just need to change the VID/PID in the external EEPROM. The newest firmware is automatically loaded onto the Cypress CY7C68013A when you connect the device and open the LA software after the correct VID/PID has been identified in the external EEPROM.

There's also open source LA software and firmware for these devices at Sigrok: http://sigrok.org
Supported protocol decoders : http://sigrok.org/wiki/Protocol_decoders

There's a lot of Saleae / USBee / EZ-USB FX2LP clones sold at eBay and AliExpress for only less than $10 that are recognized as original Saleae or USBee hardware by the LA software.
There's even some clones compatible with both softwares, just by activating a switch that switches the SDA signal between two different EEPROMs on the same I²C bus.

See how to change the VID/PID from a PC via USB: http://www.jwandrews.co.uk/2011/12/saleae-logic-analyser-clone-teardown-and-reprogramming/

Or how to make a device compatible with more than one software package by adding an extra EEPROM and a switch: http://solaraspost.blogspot.com/2013/01/saleaeusbee-dual-mode-logic-analyser.html

So there's at least 3 LA software packages compatible with these  Saleae / USBee / EZ-USB FX2LP devices if you're worried about future support. And Sigrok is open source and cross-platform.

The Logic16 hardware is more advanced than the 8-bit ones based on EZ-USB FX2LP. But there has still been made clones of it.

[SCR]

Regarding the function gen: I was looking at DG4062 with the possibility of future hacks but now I see the DG1062Z. I'm not too fused about the hacks and more bandwidth since at these frequencies (>100MHz) I will most likely be working with sine waves. I may just switch to the RF sig gen or do sweeps with the spectrum analyser.

The main differences in the function gens are:
500MSPS in the 4062 vs 200 in the Z
16kpts in the 4062 vs 8Mpts in the Z (16M optional)
150 built in arb waveforms in the 4062 vs 160 in the Z
15MHz pulse frequency range in 4062 vs 25MHz in the Z
15MHz vs 20MHz in the Z for arb frequency range
2ppm VS 1ppm frequency accuracy in the Z (over 18 - 28 deg C temperature range)
5 extra modulation types in the 4062 vs the Z.
7" TFT vs 3.5" in the Z
The 4062 wider and less deep than the Z series.

Every other spec on the 4062 is matched in the Z series.

For my needs, the only thing the 4062 has going for it is the 7" display and the dimensions (its similar to the scopes, DSAs etc so will fit nicely on my shelf - not that this is the most important thing i'm looking for). I'm not fussed about the extra modulation types or 500MSPS.
The only clear thing that stands out on the Z is the memory depth.

I am also considering the DG4062A and the DG1032Z. I would prefer the DG4062A due to the interface/larger screen for easier handling but am not clear about the impact of the memory depth, 16kpts already sounds like a lot to me (not having created arb curves with any of these yet).
My bandwidth requirements are quite low, mostly at 1 MHz or below, using sine/square/pulse and burst waveforms. CSV import (so i could import and generate waveforms via self written software easily) would be important, the DG1032Z lists CSV as input format but am not sure about the DG4062A being able to directly read CSV.


Could someone please explain what you could do with 16kpts and where one needs a higher memory depth?

[carpelux]

I'm bringing up this thread again.

Having done a preliminary overview of this fiscal year I see that there is some room for investments.

Needing a proper FG to replace my old analogue TTI  I'm thorn between the DG1032z and the DG4062.

The 4062 seems to have a edge in it's screen and that it's hackable but otherwise the "little brother" 1032z seems almost as capable, and is way ahead considering the memory depth.

I have been trying to find some reviews of the 1032z but there is none to be found on the net.

For me the money between them is not an issue, and I really don't need much mor bandwidht than 30 MHz. I have a RF generator that goes up to 250 MHz, albeit only sine wave but that will do for the rare occasion i need to work on that frequency range. I might even consider buying a DG1062z.

Is there someone who has hands on experience with booth Rigols and can give some clues how they compare?

Any opinions welcome!

[TomThomas]

I'm bringing up this thread again.

Having done a preliminary overview of this fiscal year I see that there is some room for investments.

Needing a proper FG to replace my old analogue TTI  I'm thorn between the DG1032z and the DG4062.

The 4062 seems to have a edge in it's screen and that it's hackable but otherwise the "little brother" 1032z seems almost as capable, and is way ahead considering the memory depth.

I have been trying to find some reviews of the 1032z but there is none to be found on the net.

For me the money between them is not an issue, and I really don't need much mor bandwidht than 30 MHz. I have a RF generator that goes up to 250 MHz, albeit only sine wave but that will do for the rare occasion i need to work on that frequency range. I might even consider buying a DG1062z.

Is there someone who has hands on experience with booth Rigols and can give some clues how they compare?

Any opinions welcome!

Hi carpelux,
to be honest DG10x2Z is really new and you might expect some Firmware bugs in the first time. It has a sampling rate of "only" 200MS/sec compared to 500MS/sec with DG4000. DG4000 is hackable and will have less bugs to expect but only has 16k of arb.mem. compared to 8Mpts or 16MPts as option on DG1000Z. DG4000 has a bigger Display. DG1000Z has Waveform Summing Feature which could be helpful. Phase Noise is almost equal on both. DG1000Z is cheaper.
This is all what comes to my mind in short.
Thomas

[Teneyes]

I am having fun with my DG4062
after watching this video, I bought it

[carpelux]

Thanks for the input.
I guess one can't go terrible wrong with either of the function gens, but I decided to go with the 4062 as I think it's more proven technology and seems to have some more "horsepower" in the DDS engine. The hackability doesn't hurt either